DAZ Studio Pro BETA [Project Iradium] - version 4.8.0.4!

DAZ_Spooky

swordkensia said:

Is it not possible in Iray to change the strength of lights and the ToneMapper whislt it is rendering, for real time update of lighting changes in a scene.??

S.K.

Use the Iray drawstyle for now. There are things that can and others that can't be during an actual render. Those that can be are not currently implemented.

StratDragon

for those of you (us) with older cards or incompatible cards how is IRay rendering in a CPU capacity and has anyone made complex (multiple figures, props textures) renders with it and about how long did those take over CPU?

DAZ_Spooky

swordkensia said:

larsmidnatt said:

XoechZ said:

swordkensia said:

Is it not possible in Iray to change the strength of lights and the ToneMapper whislt it is rendering, for real time update of lighting changes in a scene.??

S.K.

Not during the final render, but it is possible in the Viewport. Therefore you have to set the Viewport preview mode to "Iray Preview". Then you will see the image as it will look like rendered and you can do all the tonemapping and light adjustments.

But be warned: If you do not have the right grapics card and have to run Iray in CPU mode, things are getting veeeeeryyyy sloooooow here. So it is not nearly as comfortable as it is in Luxrender.

It isn't really realtime though, you pick something and it starts to render. So its still an improvement for some people but it's not the same "Realtime" that some are used to.

Like if I am changing the position of the sun, the viewport changes back to the flat shaded view while I am sliding the dial.

Huummmm,,

Thanks for the Info guys, so not as versatile as Luxrender or Octane Render in that department, I will no doubt give it a spin once DAZ 4.8 goes general release status, but I cannot invisage this replacing either Luxrender or Octane render for me yet...!!!!!

Maybe if it is developed further, or if the Iray interactive renderer can be incorporated at some point in the future, then possibly...but it is a promising start, and of course Free.!!!

S.K/Iray interactive is implemented and included.

vr907_323465e461

great news

jerham

After playing with the beta version, i can't wait for the release. looks good.

Also a tip/ suggestion, when worried about overheating of the GPU ('s).

look at the posibility to use a program like MSI afterburner, to have a bit more controle in regard to cooling.

I use this and have different cooling profiles, when using GPU rendering like Iray/ octane My "rendering" profile makes sure they are cooler than the standard settings (around 60 ~ 70 degrees instead of 80 ~ 90)..and more noise, but don't mind that

Ps. when you are not sure what you're doing in a program like afterburner, do not change anything...do not want to melt you're GPU ;-)

RAMWolff

Thanks so much Kat. Oh, so you and Spooky are more than just a team at work I see. Lucky girl! lol

Yea, I have considered getting a set of cards to bridge but never ever done that before so kinda worried I'll mess up something! lol I can build a computer but not one that I've ever set up a bridged set of vid cards! YIKES!

DAZ_KatBriggs said:

RAMWolff said:

So, found some more info on my current card. Need to know what this all means..

Operating System: Windows 8.1, 64-bit
DirectX version: 11.0
GPU processor: GeForce GTX 760
Driver version: 347.52
Direct3D API version: 11.2
Direct3D feature level: 11_0
CUDA Cores: 1152
Core clock: 1006 MHz
Memory data rate: 6008 MHz
Memory interface: 256-bit
Memory bandwidth: 192.26 GB/s
Total available graphics memory: 4096 MB
Dedicated video memory: 2048 MB GDDR5
System video memory: 0 MB
Shared system memory: 2048 MB
Video BIOS version: 80.04.F0.00.1E
IRQ: 16
Bus: PCI Express x16 Gen3
Device Id: 10DE 1187 28481462
Part Number: 2004 0010

I see the CUDA Cores are up to snuff I think but then I'm very confused about the Total available graphics memory VS Dedicated video memory.

If my card is up to snuff then I'll leave the idea for a replacement alone for now.

Thanks...

Total available memory is what they "list on the box". :) Makes it sound more powerful. The one you want to pay attention to is Dedicated Memory. That is what is actually used by the card for GPU rendering. You have about the same specs here as I have at home. 4 impressive GB that are really just 2 usable. I need a new card as well. CUDA Cores aren't bad on this. They are good to have, but again, if the scene won't fit on the card (The dedicated potion) all the cudas in the world won't matter for GPU. :) If it does fit on the card, then ya, you want a card with a good number of cores. So....4GB dedicated memory first, then between those cards, the one with more CUDA cores. :)

But, on a positive note, I am doing some pretty nice renders on my 2GB. I think I have had one scene I had to revert to CPU. But I am not putting more than one figure. The rest is props or backdrops etc..... It will be a few months before I upgrade. I know people assume we all have supped up power machines, but really, we are your average user at home. :) That being said, when you get a card, get the most you can afford so you do not run into frustrations down the road. And in my case, I am looking at cards that will play nice together so I can add more later.... May keep that in mind as well. Spooky can give a lot more info on specific specs for specific cards. I just tell him to buy me one that works. *grin*

Kat

SnowSultan

I think it would be really helpful if some of the DAZ Administrators who are already familiar with Iray could post step-by-step directions on how to accomplish some of the basic tasks that all new users would benefit from. I'll post a simple example (and please correct it if it's not right)

To more easily position the sun manually:

- Make sure "NVIDIA Iray" is selected as the Engine in your Render Settings panel.
- In the Environment Mode drop-down, select either Dome and Scene, Dome Only, or Sun-Sky Only.
- In your Content Library panel, look for the Render Presets -> Iray folder. This will be added if you installed the Iray content through DIM.
- You'll find a Sun Dial preset. Load it and an arrow-like object will appear in the scene.
- Using either the Scene panel or the drop down in the Parameters panel, expand the Sun Dial object until you see the "Sun Chain". Select it.
- In the Parameters panel, use the Elevation (up-down) and Azimuth (rotation) dials to move the sun. It will aim towards the center of the scene from wherever the large outer arrow is pointing.

Hope it helps and please share your own tips, especially when it comes to indoor lighting and materials!

Oso3D

I vastly prefer using a distant light as a sun node and just moving it how I want. Less fiddling with time and whatnot.

Richard Haseltine

XoechZ said:

Ok, for all of you who do not want to play with the new toy (Iray), here is the way to disable it:

- open DAZ Studio
- go to Help -> About installed plugins
- search for the NVIDIA Iry renderer and uncheck it
- close the window with OK
- close DAZ Studio

Now, when you open DAZ Studio, 3Delight will be your default render engine again and Iray does not bother you anymore. I have also noticed that DAZ Studio opens faster after doing this, because it does not have to load Iray.

DS should remember your render engine setting between sessions, so if you pick 3Delight you won't keep dropping back to Iray anyway.

SnowSultan

timmins.william said:

I vastly prefer using a distant light as a sun node and just moving it how I want. Less fiddling with time and whatnot.

That's true, but I had some difficulties getting very accurate positioning using a node. Not sure why, I just had better luck with the Sun Dial method.

Richard Haseltine

maclean said:

3. Shadows were hard in the first Iray render, so I set them to 80% softness and did another render, but it didn't change anything at all. How do I get softer shadows? (I have some panels in the scene for shadows, so maybe the light isn't bouncing properly?)

If the light is coming from a point, which is the default, then it will cast hard shadows. However, there are controls under the Light group in Parameters to assign a different shape to the light emitter, and to set its size, like an area/mesh light and that will soften the shadows as you would see using a diffuser.

Richard Haseltine

timmins.william said:

Khory: I think the fear of a lot of folks is that it'll be another Carrara, and DAZ will end up pouring most of their energy into improving Iray rather than the renderer we want to use.

There's really no solution but 'wait and see.'

Neither Iray nor 3Delight is developed by DAZ, so with luck that shouldn't be an issue (barring a major API change, I suppose).

maclean

DAZ_KatBriggs said:

maclean said:

I asked about fixing transparency in Iray, but don't have an answer. Does anyone know anything about this?

I had pills with 90% Opacity and a tex on them, and they come out black in Iray.

Also, assuming there's a way to fix this with one of the included shaders or whatever, can I then include that in a product? Or is it proprietary info?

mac

Hi Mac,

You can try setting a value in the Translucency Weight and add the map to it's color property. You may need to play with the setting a bit to get the look you want. I don't have that set I don't think..... If you have a specific cutout area where you hide polys, then you'd put that map in the Cutout property. But this sounds more like a translucency thing. Translucency and Refraction are the 2 weight properties used to make things "transparent"

Kat

Thanks a lot, Kat. Yes, translucency is key, I think. The pills should look as though they have liquid in them.

Actually, I completely forgot until now. I just checked and they have refraction too. I'll need to go back and look at this again.

mac

maclean

DAZ_Spooky said:

maclean said:

Rogerbee said:

Mmmmm,

With the two side by side, I don't see all that much difference, aside maybe for the 3Delight render making the glass look a little better.

CHEERS!

Oh, there are a lot of differences - at full size anyway. But yes, glass seems to be far better in Iray.

Unfortunately, other things are disappearing. Some of the pills have a 'break' in them (to snap them in two). That doesn't show up at all in Iray. I'm wondering if the light bounce is killing some of the definition.

mac

Are the breaks modeled or a Displacement map?

The break is modelled (see image), but the writing is a displacement map.

Second image is a section taken from the Iray render showing the pills.

mac

Katherine

Toyen said:

Skin under more realistic lightingg conditions.

2 lights inside the room - TV (blueish) and lamp on the left (warm).

Then there´s an image assigned to the dome to emit light which does not seem to be making that much of a difference to the scene. (Unlike uberenviroment, the image you assign to it always makes huge difference when it comes to lighting).

I quite like the skin here.

By the way, it´s an unfinished render. Just a preview : ) Let me know what u think.

Now I´m gonna try to play with the shader settings and see what they do.

Very very well done!

Kat

kyoto kid

User812 said:

Khory said:

If development continues with 3Delight then it still might, but, if everyone starts raving about Iray this might not end up being the case.

There is no question that there will be a good deal of raving about Iray for the next while. There was a good deal of raving when Reality, Luxus and octane became viable render paths. But there will always be people who need a render engine like 3delight. Some people don't render for realism like manga and toon users. Some people are just here to play around a few hours in the evening and want quick gratification. Some people do a base render and then do magic in post. DAZ is not going to stop selling them content and isn't going to try and run them away just because they ADDED a new render engine. Some people will try Iray and love it and never go back. Some will try it and like it but not well enough to change over. I think the really big up side for all the customers will be that in order to look good in Iray content creators will need to be held to a higher standard. Castles will need to look realistic in Iray so they will look more realistic in 3delight as well. I think in the long run it will be a win for everyone no matter which engine they pick that day.

Well said. I like realism like the next person. Truth is everybody knows it's a 3d render in the end especially for human subjects unless you're totally blind. With that, I've enjoyed the progress 3delight continues to make especially in this release. things are much snappier and faster than what they were just one year ago. For animation, which is what i'm getting into these days, physical renders have a long ways to go at the same time I've seen render times dropping dramatically for 3delight even with SSS skin and hair in the scene. The IPR rendering appears much improved from last version too for 3delight. 3delight is here to stay and has its place.
...indeed. A scene I have been using for test comparisons rendered much faster in the new version of 3DL (just over 14 min at 1,200 x 900 using AoA's Advanced lights). Fairly busy scene as well with two G2F characters along with a fair amount of reflectivity and transmaps.

Comparing the final output to an earlier one I saved it looked as if the scene was a little darker even though all light and surface settings were the same. What I really think it may be the situation, is the image is "crisper" looking and more well defined as I could see improved definition in the texture maps (not just diffuse but also bump and displacement) than before. Results with the SSS skin shader also seem to have improved even compared with 4.7.

Rogerbee

Toyen said:

Skin under more realistic lightingg conditions.

2 lights inside the room - TV (blueish) and lamp on the left (warm).

Then there´s an image assigned to the dome to emit light which does not seem to be making that much of a difference to the scene. (Unlike uberenviroment, the image you assign to it always makes huge difference when it comes to lighting).

I quite like the skin here.

By the way, it´s an unfinished render. Just a preview : ) Let me know what u think.

Now I´m gonna try to play with the shader settings and see what they do.

Ok, that is very nice! You're more than welcome to post anything you do here:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/32848/

It's a fun thread I inherited where anything from any type of renderer is welcome.

CHEERS!

Rogerbee

jerham said:

After playing with the beta version, i can't wait for the release. looks good.

Also a tip/ suggestion, when worried about overheating of the GPU ('s).

look at the posibility to use a program like MSI afterburner, to have a bit more controle in regard to cooling.

I use this and have different cooling profiles, when using GPU rendering like Iray/ octane My "rendering" profile makes sure they are cooler than the standard settings (around 60 ~ 70 degrees instead of 80 ~ 90)..and more noise, but don't mind that

Ps. when you are not sure what you're doing in a program like afterburner, do not change anything...do not want to melt you're GPU ;-)

I have a program like that for my Asus called GPU Tweak, I set it to Auto and it likes that.

CHEERS!

Rogerbee

StratDragon said:

for those of you (us) with older cards or incompatible cards how is IRay rendering in a CPU capacity and has anyone made complex (multiple figures, props textures) renders with it and about how long did those take over CPU?

Great question and one that shouldn't be overlooked. It's on my mind too.

CHEERS!

DoctorJellybean

JohnDelaquiox said:

Does anyone have any tips on using the Emissive Shader?

I'm not quite sure what you want, it basically turns a surface into a light emitter. Use Emission Temperature to set the type of light

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature

and Luminance to set the light strength. Note that this can be a very high number, depending on the Tone Mapping and Environment settings.

namffuak

R25S said:

namffuak said:

You're missing one minor but key step. Plug the skydome image (jpg or whatever) into the environment map.

I did not recognice that this was missing (normaly it is set automatic, as far as I know).
But in the first try, setting the map, doesn`t chance anything. Just after deleting the Emitter Shader the Sky is shown in the rendered Image but now it is really dark and not clear

I'm re-rendering now, just to make sure I'm not blowing smoke - I'll post the result and settings in about 20 minutes, when it finishes.

linvanchene

First, gratulations on this indeed surprising development. :exclaim: :lol:

I guess for everyone it is great news to have a real alternative no matter which render engine you are using.

DAZ_Spooky said:

Iray Realtime has some significant limitations. It only works on some NVIDIA cards, and unlike Interactive and Photoreal it has no CPU fallback. It also, if your scene gets big and you have something like Chrome open you can get a graphics card conflict, which is very likely to crash the Video Card Driver, which definitely crashes DS, and on the Mac forces a reboot. (Right there, no chance to save anything.)

That is the reason why on dedicated GPU rendering workstations you assign one GPU to the display and the other GPUs to your dedicated rendering application.

This is not at all complicated to do. Some applications like other render plugins or standalone render engines have a built in overview in the software system tab that lets you choose which GPU are activated for rendering.

The easiest workaround is to simply deactivate the one GPU that you assigned to the display.

If you do not know which exact GPU is assigned to the display it is quite simple to tell which one it is:
The one GPU that allready has a partly used VRAM is the one that is running the display.
The other GPU will show an empty VRAM as long as the scene is empty...

compare attached screenshot that shows how you can activate or remove GPU by adding a checkmark and clicking on apply.
This just takes about 10 seconds.

- - -

An alternative way of doing this is the Nvidia Control Panel / Manage 3D settings.
There you can manually set which GPUs should be used by which applications.

- - -

With game level content, this isn't an issue, with typical DAZ3D content, and less than professional grade cards, we decided not to implement it.

I do realize that your biggest concern for the moment probably was to provide a solution for those people who cannot afford to spend much money on multiple GPU.

But if you can provide optional additional solutions for those users who actually have a system with 2 or even more GPU then why not do it?

- - -

update / edit: removed some duplicate parts.

MarcosDK

My second try. This haven't postproduction. Very fast :D

DAZ_Spooky

peter.schelfhout said:

Did anyone find more info on what all the render and material parameters do?

I've checked the Nvidia Iray site, but all their info seem to be either general or too specific (3ds max oriented)...

Peter.

Iray Uber Shader:

Iray Uber Shader Documentation

These documents are fluid and will change over the course of the beta to add/clarify more information. :)

Please note that some pages are still being worked on. If you get "permission denied" that page is not yet live. :) As I said, these are fluid through the beta. The pages with the most pertinant info are Tone Mapping, Environment, and the Iray Uber Surface shader pages, and those are all live and available.

Thanks!

kyoto kid

Rogerbee said:

Kyoto Kid said:

...doing my best but it's a learning curve, especially with figuring out materials and how to put the sun where I want it Seems it's placement is is tied to local location, time zone differential from GMT, and day/time of day.

Kat's render was impressive and if there are further improvements made to 3Delight then 4.8 is still a definite prospect. Iray can wait for me as I have no intention of using CPU mode or upgrading my graphics card.

As long as I have something I can use and learn I'll be happy

CHEERS!
...here's the 4.8 3DL version of my test scene (no postwork):

...a few custom texture maps were lost in the translation, the two blank signs for example, as well as the photo plane backdrop that I had to reload (it was just a blank plane when I first opened hte scene up - thankfully I have it saves as a subset.)

Rogerbee

dkmarcos said:

My second try. This haven't postproduction. Very fast :D

Now that's an advert for Iray! Well done!

CHEERS!

Oso3D

One thing I noticed about Iray shader displacement maps...

Previously, I could, say, put a positive value in Min and a negative value in Max and it would essentially invert the map.

This doesn't seem to work in Iray (though I may have done something wrong)

(Also, there's a bug in 4.8 where if you try to invert a map in LIE it almost always crashes... at least for me)

DAZ_Spooky

linvanchene said:

First, gratulations on this indeed surprising development. :exclaim: :lol:

I guess for everyone it is great news to have a real alternative no matter which render engine you are using.

DAZ_Spooky said:

Iray Realtime has some significant limitations. It only works on some NVIDIA cards, and unlike Interactive and Photoreal it has no CPU fallback. It also, if your scene gets big and you have something like Chrome open you can get a graphics card conflict, which is very likely to crash the Video Card Driver, which definitely crashes DS, and on the Mac forces a reboot. (Right there, no chance to save anything.)

That is the reason why on dedicated GPU rendering workstations you assign one GPU to the display and the other GPUs to your dedicated rendering application.

This is not at all complicated to do. Some applications like other render plugins or standalone render engines have a built in overview in the software system tab that lets you choose which GPU are activated for rendering.

The easiest workaround is to simply deactivate the one GPU that you assigned to the display.

If you do not know which exact GPU is assigned to the display it is quite simple to tell which one it is:
The one GPU that allready has a partly used VRAM is the one that is running the display.
The other GPU will show an empty VRAM as long as the scene is empty...

compare attached screenshot that shows how you can activate or remove GPU by adding a checkmark and clicking on apply.
This just takes about 10 seconds.

- - -

An alternative way of doing this is the Nvidia Control Panel / Manage 3D settings.
There you can manually set which GPUs should be used by which applications.

- - -

DAZ_Spooky said:

With game level content, this isn't an issue, with typical DAZ3D content, and less than professional grade cards, we decided not to implement it.

I really hope this is not the last word on Iray RealtimeI do realize that your biggest concern for the moment probably was to provide a solution for those people who cannot afford to spend much money on multiple GPU.

But if you can provide an optional solution for those users who actually have a system with 2 or even more GPU then why not do it?

If you have some customers who spent thousands of dollars on advanced GPU rendering workstations should those customers not have the option to use more advanced features like Iray Realtime?.

It is the current word on Iray Realtime. It has proven, even on systems with a pair of K6000 cards to not offer enough upside to overcome the downside, at this time.

And our primary concern is stability.

- - -

Since 2013 I am used to having a live interactive OctaneRender for DAZ Studio plugin viewport that shows me updates of any changes I make in split seconds at preview render resolutions.

With the help of the ASWD keys you introduced in the 4.7 update I can fly through any DAZ scene like "Streets of Asia 2" in a realtime live viewport at lower preview resolutions like 720x480 even up to 1280x720.

I hope that one day this will be possible too with Iray for DAZ Studio.

- - -
Set the blend mode to Interactive, turn up your threshold, and you will be blending between Iray Interactive and Photoreal but your movement may not be as smooth as you would want, depending on your Video cards. The Blend settings are a reasonable place to start but are definitely designed to be adjusted to account for your specific cards.

Rogerbee

Kyoto Kid said:

...here's the 4.8 3DL version of my test scene (no postwork):

...a few custom texture maps were lost in the translation, the two blank signs for example, as well as the photo plane backdrop that I had to reload (it was just a blank plane when I first opened hte scene up - thankfully I have it saves as a subset.)

Impressive! The fans on my card screamed for mercy when I did a render of Bjorn, they might sound like a 747 taking off if I tried that kind of scene. Time is my enemy at the moment. I was supposed to record my jobsearch and email agencies at 18:30. I looked at my emails and have been on here ever since! OOPS!

CHEERS!

Katherine

maclean said:

DAZ_KatBriggs said:

maclean said:

I asked about fixing transparency in Iray, but don't have an answer. Does anyone know anything about this?

I had pills with 90% Opacity and a tex on them, and they come out black in Iray.

Also, assuming there's a way to fix this with one of the included shaders or whatever, can I then include that in a product? Or is it proprietary info?

mac

Hi Mac,

You can try setting a value in the Translucency Weight and add the map to it's color property. You may need to play with the setting a bit to get the look you want. I don't have that set I don't think..... If you have a specific cutout area where you hide polys, then you'd put that map in the Cutout property. But this sounds more like a translucency thing. Translucency and Refraction are the 2 weight properties used to make things "transparent"

Kat

Thanks a lot, Kat. Yes, translucency is key, I think. The pills should look as though they have liquid in them.

Actually, I completely forgot until now. I just checked and they have refraction too. I'll need to go back and look at this again.

mac

Yep - it took me a bit to get used to things. We are soooo used to having to fake things in 3Delight, we forget to look at the real world around us and see how things "really" work. *grin*

My train of thought when learning Iray:

That shadow looks HORRID

**looks around** Wait....it looks like that shadow in my living room.....

Ummmm....wow.....that actually looks pretty good....

LOL

Kat