The Non-Fungible People vs Daz models

SolitarySandpiper

They are a bit rubbish as they are so can you improve them and sell them on?

frank0314

AlmightyQUEST said:

frank0314 said:

andrushuk1 said:

Should acually have the stuff here some where explaining this all so it's not soo confusing .

The've tried a couple different threads for Q&A but they weren't even given the chance to explain anything and only had complaining with no real questions about (who/what/where) for them to answer so IMO why bother if that's all your going to get from a section of the user base. 

It's funny I remember there being a lot of questions and no answers.

Not in regards to who/what/where/when type of questions. Almost none of the questions were actually on the topic and purpose of the OP's thread.

WendyLuvsCatz

this all sounds a bit DARVO to me.

Making out the forumites to look as if they were attacking the poor defenseless crypyobros cum NFT collectors sellers so they were too afraid to post their convincing arguements here. 

nonesuch00

Richard Haseltine said:

nonesuch00 said:

SolitarySandpiper said:

So 3d printing is allowed... maybe they should do a list of of the things that arn't allowed? Then people would have a better understanding of who really owns Daz's stuff.

Basically for what they said you can only sell it one time as a complete NFT package. You can't for instance repackage it and then open you own store front and resell the components or the whole to multiple people the way DAZ does. You could use it as a character in a game and it be the game or other components of the game that get sold and not the DAZ model(s) themselves. 

So basically buying an NFT from DAZ allows you to do one thing you can't do with any DAZ purchases whatsoever now - resell your DAZ NFT library one time, to one or more buyer(s), including the original NFT package content, and then be removed from the NFT library content still in your posession.

That is backwards - the NFP can be sold, as a complete package not piecemeal, to one person. Thjat person then owns the NFP, and has al the rights associated with it - including the right to sell it to another person in turn, again as a single package.

Thanks, that one I was trying to say but tripped on selling multiple possible entire NFP packages bought being sold once each. So if you have 5 NFP products you can sell each individual product once to 1 person and then another product to another person. Each product only sold once, just like it was only bought once by the original buyer from DAZ 3D.

MelissaGT

So wait...these NFP's aren't even unique models? We could all just buy the components in the store to make the same character ourselves? And...most of us may even already have most if not all of the components in our libraries anyways? So...why would anybody buy this again? 

NylonGirl

I bet $700 is enough to pay somebody to make a custom figure that can be used for any purpose.

nakamuram002

Richard Haseltine said:

andrushuk1 said:

Richard : are NFP a 3d character or just a render ?

It's a content bundle, character, hair, and clothes - plus interactive licenses, including for the base figure (presumably Genesis 8 Female in this case).

But what exactly is in the bundle?  Please give us detailed store-type info on each item in the bundle.

zombietaggerung

nakamuram002 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

andrushuk1 said:

Richard : are NFP a 3d character or just a render ?

It's a content bundle, character, hair, and clothes - plus interactive licenses, including for the base figure (presumably Genesis 8 Female in this case).

But what exactly is in the bundle?  Please give us detailed store-type info on each item in the bundle.

Isn't it this thing? https://www.daz3d.com/nfp-starter-kit-01

SnowSultan

Well this is even weirder than I thought now...so the first official NFP kit is basically a small bundle of older products? I asked before, but that thread got pruned, so let me ask again - and please don't delete this - am I right in saying that NFPs are characters built from existing DAZ Studio content, in DAZ Studio, with no additional features, and the $200-$800 pre-made NFPs are basically what people buy when they don't want to mess with learning and using Studio?

Maybe all of us 'real' artists should just dial-spin and piece together random characters with all the content we've bought over the years and sell them to cryptobros after all if that's all there is to it. (edit, I guess we need to own all of the interactive licenses for the products we use in said characters).

jd641

MelissaGT said:

So wait...these NFP's aren't even unique models? We could all just buy the components in the store to make the same character ourselves? And...most of us may even already have most if not all of the components in our libraries anyways? So...why would anybody buy this again? 

I was wondering this exact thing. What's the stop people from duplicating this "unique" character since it's based off assets people already have?

Also, I still don't 'get' nft's, especially this whole NFP thingy. Since I think it said you can change the character by importing, doesn't that means there's files, sometimes multiple version of the character on their HD if it has been worked on/changed. Backups, cached files, maybe even hard drive backup tools caught multiple versions of the NFP files. Honestly I'm still at a loss at this whole mess but the more I think of that, the less 'unique' the file seems to me.

 

What am I missing? What am I not understanding?

Havos

I think what most people are missing is that these things are supposed to be an investment, that in theory you can sell on at a profit. The actual use in a piece of art is a secondary benefit, maybe to perk the interest of artists, but as many people have stated above, that side benefit is pretty minor. The value as such bears little relation to any side benefits. If you are wondering why anyone would buy such a thing at 800 dollars, remember that those 10,000 slightly different sad monkeys were offered at 250K each, so one could argue 800 is a bargain!

I think most buyers of these things will be speculators, hoping to grab something they can sell on at a profit. Most artists are likely to see these things as they are, basically worthless until some sucker comes along and buys it off you. 

MelissaGT

Havos said:

I think what most people are missing is that these things are supposed to be an investment, that in theory you can sell on at a profit. The actual use in a piece of art is a secondary benefit, maybe to perk the interest of artists, but as many people have stated above, that side benefit is pretty minor. The value as such bears little relation to any side benefits. If you are wondering why anyone would buy such a thing at 800 dollars, remember that those 10,000 slightly different sad monkeys were offered at 250K each, so one could argue 800 is a bargain!

I think most buyers of these things will be speculators, hoping to grab something they can sell on at a profit. Most artists are likely to see these things as they are, basically worthless until some sucker comes along and buys it off you. 

So they're beanie babies. (I think I just aged myself.) 

ALLIEKATBLUE

My understanding is this. Obviously, they're not meant for people who already have an extensive Daz library.  it's for people who are willing to pay $700 or whatever for a rigged bundled character with clothing hair jewelry etc for use as an avatar in whatever metaverse they choose.  They can be used as an avatar in zoom meetings or other VR places. They can also use it in Daz to pose it render and use the renders on their social media or whatever.  They might even want other Daz content as well. They purchase it as an NFT which is the token that includes the downloadable content which is accessed after the purchase and minting is done. Why is everybody so up in arms about this?  If you don't want it don't buy it. Nobody's making anybody buy this.

CHWT

ALLIEKATBLUE said:

My understanding is this. Obviously, they're not meant for people who already have an extensive Daz library.  it's for people who are willing to pay $700 or whatever for a rigged bundled character with clothing hair jewelry etc for use as an avatar in whatever metaverse they choose.  They can be used as an avatar in zoom meetings or other VR places. They can also use it in Daz to pose it render and use the renders on their social media or whatever.  They might even want other Daz content as well. They purchase it as an NFT which is the token that includes the downloadable content which is accessed after the purchase and minting is done. Why is everybody so up in arms about this?  If you don't want it don't buy it. Nobody's making anybody buy this.

Most people who post in this thread obviously won't buy. And nobody is making anybody not to buy.

WendyLuvsCatz

are we really such scary people? I am really gutless,cannot speak for anyone else?

I might express my disagreement but I am hardly going to pounce on individuals for their choices.

I only unfriended some Facebook friends and unsubscribed to YouTubers over it, I never attacked any to my knowledge but plenty got angry with me, had to block some.

I do get annoyed at DAZ for pushing it so much seemingly with priority over other stuff

I mean if you want to throw your money at it, that's your choice, you can buy into Timeshare Condos too for all I care,

would I advise anyone to? no way, but I won't harrass you, I will in general, not as a personal attack give my opinions on the forum though

AllenArt

Havos said:

I think what most people are missing is that these things are supposed to be an investment, that in theory you can sell on at a profit. The actual use in a piece of art is a secondary benefit, maybe to perk the interest of artists, but as many people have stated above, that side benefit is pretty minor. The value as such bears little relation to any side benefits. If you are wondering why anyone would buy such a thing at 800 dollars, remember that those 10,000 slightly different sad monkeys were offered at 250K each, so one could argue 800 is a bargain!

I think most buyers of these things will be speculators, hoping to grab something they can sell on at a profit. Most artists are likely to see these things as they are, basically worthless until some sucker comes along and buys it off you. 

I equate the entire thing to the Beanie Baby craze. And we all know how that ended. 

Edit: Hahaha...MelissaGT beat me to it. And I guess I dated myself too :P

MelissaGT

ALLIEKATBLUE said:

My understanding is this. Obviously, they're not meant for people who already have an extensive Daz library.  it's for people who are willing to pay $700 or whatever for a rigged bundled character with clothing hair jewelry etc for use as an avatar in whatever metaverse they choose.  They can be used as an avatar in zoom meetings or other VR places. They can also use it in Daz to pose it render and use the renders on their social media or whatever.  They might even want other Daz content as well. They purchase it as an NFT which is the token that includes the downloadable content which is accessed after the purchase and minting is done. 

But the question is why? When you could buy everything in the budle from the store directly for much much much less than $700. And still do everything you mentioned with it. But even then, it's still not a unique character because anybody with Daz who owns that base character has it. I guess I'm just not seeing and will never see how this whole thing could be worth $700. It'd be one thing if it was a unique model that isn't available in the store.

jjmainor

MelissaGT said:

ALLIEKATBLUE said:

My understanding is this. Obviously, they're not meant for people who already have an extensive Daz library.  it's for people who are willing to pay $700 or whatever for a rigged bundled character with clothing hair jewelry etc for use as an avatar in whatever metaverse they choose.  They can be used as an avatar in zoom meetings or other VR places. They can also use it in Daz to pose it render and use the renders on their social media or whatever.  They might even want other Daz content as well. They purchase it as an NFT which is the token that includes the downloadable content which is accessed after the purchase and minting is done. 

But the question is why? When you could buy everything in the budle from the store directly for much much much less than $700. And still do everything you mentioned with it. But even then, it's still not a unique character because anybody with Daz who owns that base character has it. I guess I'm just not seeing and will never see how this whole thing could be worth $700. It'd be one thing if it was a unique model that isn't available in the store.

The PFPs are supposed to be virtual avatars.  There has been so much confusion over wether or not these need the interactive license, and this comes froma community familiar with the program, the store, and the assets.  Now imagine you're someone looking to jump into the whole metaverse thing, but you don't have experience with any of this.  you not only have to buy the assets and spend the time creating the character yourself, but then you're faced with the confusion over wether or not you can legally use your character in the metaverse.  If you buy one of these NFTs containing a PFP, presumably all the questions have been worked out and you can be assured you can use the character without tons of additional side purchases.

 

It has been metioned earlier in the thread, but if you get bored of your avatar, you can turn around and resell the NFT to someone else who might get use out of it.  Even if the NFT market crashes, you might be able to get a cup of coffee for your $700-800 investment.  You can't do that with all your Daz assets.  If you give up working with DS, you can't legally sell your collection of assets to recoup any of the money you put into them.  Or heaven forbid, you die, your content library can't legally be transferred to your heirs.  All of us have spent hundreds, thousands, even tens of thousands of dollars on assets from the store that someday will be worth $0.00.  So if you're just looking for something with which to play around in the metaverse, one of these NFTs/PFPs might be a better investment for you.

ioonrxoon

From what I understood so far about this nft drosh, you're looking at this the wrong way. You're not paying 700 for a bundle of assests, you're paying for the nft, the link or whatever the heck it's supposed to be. The assets are just a bonus, a more useful and interesting version of the 8 bit cat.

So, yeah, the nft is unique. The assets are not.

CHWT

MelissaGT said:

ALLIEKATBLUE said:

My understanding is this. Obviously, they're not meant for people who already have an extensive Daz library.  it's for people who are willing to pay $700 or whatever for a rigged bundled character with clothing hair jewelry etc for use as an avatar in whatever metaverse they choose.  They can be used as an avatar in zoom meetings or other VR places. They can also use it in Daz to pose it render and use the renders on their social media or whatever.  They might even want other Daz content as well. They purchase it as an NFT which is the token that includes the downloadable content which is accessed after the purchase and minting is done. 

But the question is why? When you could buy everything in the budle from the store directly for much much much less than $700. And still do everything you mentioned with it. But even then, it's still not a unique character because anybody with Daz who owns that base character has it. I guess I'm just not seeing and will never see how this whole thing could be worth $700. It'd be one thing if it was a unique model that isn't available in the store.

Just changing a morph dial value or values of other attributes, so that each of the components like character, clothing etc being not exactly the same as what could be directly bought from the store is enough to fulfill the definition of uniqueness.

NFPs seem to be good for people who want to instantly use something pretty... if they get bored with their existing NFPs they could just buy new ones. But perhaps the greatest motivation to buy is the ability to see the prospect of rising value. And yea anybody selling something is creating a market. Then if someone buys it there is transaction.

CHWT

jjmainor said:

MelissaGT said:

ALLIEKATBLUE said:

My understanding is this. Obviously, they're not meant for people who already have an extensive Daz library.  it's for people who are willing to pay $700 or whatever for a rigged bundled character with clothing hair jewelry etc for use as an avatar in whatever metaverse they choose.  They can be used as an avatar in zoom meetings or other VR places. They can also use it in Daz to pose it render and use the renders on their social media or whatever.  They might even want other Daz content as well. They purchase it as an NFT which is the token that includes the downloadable content which is accessed after the purchase and minting is done. 

But the question is why? When you could buy everything in the budle from the store directly for much much much less than $700. And still do everything you mentioned with it. But even then, it's still not a unique character because anybody with Daz who owns that base character has it. I guess I'm just not seeing and will never see how this whole thing could be worth $700. It'd be one thing if it was a unique model that isn't available in the store.

The PFPs are supposed to be virtual avatars.  There has been so much confusion over wether or not these need the interactive license, and this comes froma community familiar with the program, the store, and the assets.  Now imagine you're someone looking to jump into the whole metaverse thing, but you don't have experience with any of this.  you not only have to buy the assets and spend the time creating the character yourself, but then you're faced with the confusion over wether or not you can legally use your character in the metaverse.  If you buy one of these NFTs containing a PFP, presumably all the questions have been worked out and you can be assured you can use the character without tons of additional side purchases.

 

It has been metioned earlier in the thread, but if you get bored of your avatar, you can turn around and resell the NFT to someone else who might get use out of it.  Even if the NFT market crashes, you might be able to get a cup of coffee for your $700-800 investment.  You can't do that with all your Daz assets.  If you give up working with DS, you can't legally sell your collection of assets to recoup any of the money you put into them.  Or heaven forbid, you die, your content library can't legally be transferred to your heirs.  All of us have spent hundreds, thousands, even tens of thousands of dollars on assets from the store that someday will be worth $0.00.  So if you're just looking for something with which to play around in the metaverse, one of these NFTs/PFPs might be a better investment for you.

Good point. The money I spent buying products from the store is sunk cost. I am not using metaverse at least at this moment, so further buying an NFP now in the hopes of at least recouping the value of a cup of coffee someday in the future does not make me very excited. But I am not an investor anyway.

andrushuk1

I think I understand it  now thanks to some ppls insight they are more or less Daz models that you can buy from the store here but they have been tweaked a litle to be unique and they come with proof of owner ship stored in the blockchain thingy (NFT?)  you can re-sell them hopefully for a profit 1 time to the next person (that person would now take over ownership of said product) . The models being sold in the store here (you can't re-sell them u don't own them or the right to them) .  this is my take on it if I'm understanding it correctly.

CHWT

andrushuk1 said:

I think I understand it  now thanks to some ppls insight they are more or less Daz models that you can buy from the store here but they have been tweaked a litle to be unique and they come with proof of owner ship stored in the blockchain thingy (NFT?)  you can re-sell them hopefully for a profit 1 time to the next person (that person would now take over ownership of said product) . The models being sold in the store here (you can't re-sell them u don't own them or the right to them) .  this is my take on it if I'm understanding it correctly.

I wouldn't say the NFPs are just slightly tweaked models. Some of them noticeably are customized characters. I can see they all are pretty, instantly usable if you don't want to create anything. Resellable if you don't break the NFP into components etc. So definitely good for some people, just not my cup of tea right now. If you don't mind shelling out a few hundred bucks right now and you are not in a hurry to make a profit but see it as some form of investment then it's totally okay to buy an NFP. Just that I don't have the budget and I suck at investing.

andrushuk1

Another question I have do they come in male characters ? from what I've seen they all appear to be female.
 

NVM  I read in an other area they could make some  later

maikdecker

Richard Haseltine said:

benniewoodell said:

AlmightyQUEST said:

frank0314 said:

andrushuk1 said:

Should acually have the stuff here some where explaining this all so it's not soo confusing .

The've tried a couple different threads for Q&A but they weren't even given the chance to explain anything and only had complaining with no real questions about (who/what/where) for them to answer so IMO why bother if that's all your going to get from a section of the user base. 

It's funny I remember there being a lot of questions and no answers.

I guess you have to file a ticket to get answers.  I've read in other threads the folks at Daz don't look at the forums. It's weird, I know. 

Daz staff have a lot of duties to perform, so it cannot be guaranteed that they will read the forums in general or a particular thread. A ticket makes sure that the query/comment is logged and in the  system for staff.

Other companies seem to have people dedicated to a job that circles around observing the official (!) forum of that company, and advance vital feedback in condensed form to the people that need that feedback to do their jobs properly. So You mean that this is not the case for DAZ?

Richard Haseltine said:

AgitatedRiot said:

My question should be easily answered, if it is not unique and the only copy why should I buy it? If I were to buy one I want it to be the only copy and I have all rights to it. Meaning no other identity can lay claims to that NFP

Your question was answered - each NFP is unique.

Do you mean "unique" as in "each NFP asset can only owned by one person on the world" or in the sense of "each NFP is different from all other NFPs, but each NFP asset can be owned by multiple persons at the same time" which, considered the price and the intent to make money from them, would make more sense than the first option...?!?

Richard Haseltine

zombietaggerung said:

nakamuram002 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

andrushuk1 said:

Richard : are NFP a 3d character or just a render ?

It's a content bundle, character, hair, and clothes - plus interactive licenses, including for the base figure (presumably Genesis 8 Female in this case).

But what exactly is in the bundle?  Please give us detailed store-type info on each item in the bundle.

Isn't it this thing? https://www.daz3d.com/nfp-starter-kit-01

No, that was free to everyone who joined the Discord.

I don't know the exact content of the bundles, and I don't know if they include custom elements (such as morphs) - I do know that the base figure is Genesis (8 female), however, and not a fully custom figure, which is all I was saying (and no, to another post, $700 would not commission a full custom figure).

Richard Haseltine

 

Richard Haseltine said:

AgitatedRiot said:

My question should be easily answered, if it is not unique and the only copy why should I buy it? If I were to buy one I want it to be the only copy and I have all rights to it. Meaning no other identity can lay claims to that NFP

Your question was answered - each NFP is unique.

Do you mean "unique" as in "each NFP asset can only owned by one person on the world" or in the sense of "each NFP is different from all other NFPs, but each NFP asset can be owned by multiple persons at the same time" which, considered the price and the intent to make money from them, would make more sense than the first option...?!?

Each NFP is diffrent from the otehr NFPs. I think that applies to the characters themselves, rather than the hair and clothing, but I am not certain on that.

Ascania

Richard Haseltine said:

No, that was free to everyone who joined the Discord.

Thanks, Richard. I missed that one.

Richard Haseltine said:

Each NFP is diffrent from the otehr NFPs. I think that applies to the characters themselves, rather than the hair and clothing, but I am not certain on that.

So basically a separate morph intended to be sold only once.

FP

https://www.dwt.com/insights/2021/03/what-are-non-fungible-tokens Other than the flavor of the day "cool factor" or trying to flip my purchase for more money, I am at a loss. Any art produced with the item surely isn't going to be safe from duplication. Only the actual product will have the "code" correct? I've seen dozens of pictures posted on Google of these protected assets and am still wondering why I can even view them if they are protected. What I am being sold is a unique code to an item that is mass produced? My TV, car and PS4 all have unique serial numbers.

ColinFrench

MelissaGT said:

So they're beanie babies. (I think I just aged myself.) 

At least with collectables like that, at the end of the day you have a physical object you can display or do whatever you want with it, including reselling it with no terms or conditions the next buyer has to agree to.