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Fiddling with Iray skin settings...

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  • AndyGrimmAndyGrimm Posts: 910
    edited January 2016

    A eye extrem closeup which shows the microdetails ...  i had to overwork all eye textures to make them work in daz iray... without adjusting everything would be to dark (compared to the original),,,  i also had to draw a refraction mask to show the iris.... After 10 hours tweaking it looks now like this:

    Rendertime 2hours..not bad for my weak system ...  also with 6k maps and 32bit exe textures i dont feel that it takes longer then with DAZ characters.


     

    eye-closeup.png
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    Post edited by AndyGrimm on
  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

     

    AndyGrimm said:

    A eye extrem closeup which shows the microdetails ...  i had to overwork all eye textures to make them work in daz iray... without adjusting everything would be to dark (compared to the original),,,  i also had to draw a refraction mask to show the iris.... After 10 hours tweaking it looks now like this:

    Rendertime 2hours..not bad for my weak system ...  also with 6k maps and 32bit exe textures i dont feel that it takes longer then with DAZ characters.


     

    The reflection settings look great on the eye, but the iris and cornea don't feel quite like they have depth, I don't get the sense of light bouncing around in the aqueous humor.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    j cade said:

     

    AndyGrimm said:

    A eye extrem closeup which shows the microdetails ...  i had to overwork all eye textures to make them work in daz iray... without adjusting everything would be to dark (compared to the original),,,  i also had to draw a refraction mask to show the iris.... After 10 hours tweaking it looks now like this:

    Rendertime 2hours..not bad for my weak system ...  also with 6k maps and 32bit exe textures i dont feel that it takes longer then with DAZ characters.


     

    The reflection settings look great on the eye, but the iris and cornea don't feel quite like they have depth, I don't get the sense of light bouncing around in the aqueous humor.

    Yeah...the cornea looks like it needs some curvature (or more) to it.  The curve of the cornea is really important to getting that correct 'bounce'.

  • SorelSorel Posts: 1,407

    Yeah I asked a while back if the G3 cornea bulge morph was actually correct and really didn't get an answer on it. I know Mec4D said she made eyes morphs for G2 based on scanned model, I wonder if she'll release a product with it.

  • AndyGrimmAndyGrimm Posts: 910
    edited January 2016

    the eye above has a inner and a outer eye and a very large cornea bulbe..the pupil is a hole...  the iris on the inner eye. the effect of depness depends also a little bit on "luck".. same as the reflections..

    But i am agree that something is missing - the iris is to flat...and  i will try to improve it without creating a 2 million displacmement as MEC 4d did... i want this thing rendering as fast as g3 does smiley

    here a render which shows how strong the cornea bulb actually is -> left eye... and also good to see on te right eye that there is no bulb for the iris which should be somehwere in the middle of the cornea and normal eyeball radius..

    iris.png
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    Post edited by AndyGrimm on
  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    My stab at eyes, my favorite part is if you look at the bottom right of each iris at that refracted light hitting the iris. Our eyes do that to (well mine do, I did a lot of miror staring for reference)

    I could probably have picked better textures to work with

     

    It is slow to clear up. there's a lot of bouncing the light has to do

    eyes.png
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  • XtraDimensionalXtraDimensional Posts: 509

    Is that a custom morph? 

    I've been using the regular Cornea Bulge with limits redone so I can push the morph to 150-200% percent... Basically just before it starts eating into the eyelids. Then I add in the Iris Correction at somewhere between 80-100%, depending on what looks good. Is fair, but I don't know if it's entirely accurate, physically speaking.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    Hanabi said:

    Is that a custom morph? 

    I've been using the regular Cornea Bulge with limits redone so I can push the morph to 150-200% percent... Basically just before it starts eating into the eyelids. Then I add in the Iris Correction at somewhere between 80-100%, depending on what looks good. Is fair, but I don't know if it's entirely accurate, physically speaking.

    The whole eye isn't that accurate...physically speaking, but the inclued morph is with in the range of 'right'.

    I have a bulge morph up on ShareCG for G2F that I did model to a generic eye...

    http://www.sharecg.com/v/80769/gallery/21/DAZ-Studio/G2F-Eye-Morphs

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    The cornea uses the regular cornea bulge morph at 100%, but I also have a really quickly made morph to change the shape of the iris from flat. I need to make a more accurate one though. (And one for the dudes.)
  • SorelSorel Posts: 1,407
    j cade said:
    The cornea uses the regular cornea bulge morph at 100%, but I also have a really quickly made morph to change the shape of the iris from flat. I need to make a more accurate one though. (And one for the dudes.)

    Possible eye product? *hint/nudge* I would totally pay for a highly detailed eye product with better looking maps and stuff.
  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    Not really a product its super basic, but I'll probably stick the iris morphs over at sharecg, once they're actually done.

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    And another render with a nicer iris texture, I do love that Daz has kept all their iris uv layouts pretty much the same since v4, these irises are cribbed from a v4 set. I think at some point I need to go through and pick all my favorites and make a bunch of presets.

     

    I do really wish Iray had a clever way to work more on certain parts of the image the way luxrender does, it would probably be quicker to do sopt renders for the eyes in addition to the full render so the whole thing doesnt have to bake as long. The eyes here still arent fully baked.

    eyes2.png
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  • Gr00vusGr00vus Posts: 372

    So, eventually you're going to give us your eye shader settings again so we can steal them, right? Because they look great.

    j cade said:

    And another render with a nicer iris texture, I do love that Daz has kept all their iris uv layouts pretty much the same since v4, these irises are cribbed from a v4 set. I think at some point I need to go through and pick all my favorites and make a bunch of presets.

     

    I do really wish Iray had a clever way to work more on certain parts of the image the way luxrender does, it would probably be quicker to do sopt renders for the eyes in addition to the full render so the whole thing doesnt have to bake as long. The eyes here still arent fully baked.

     

  • mmkdazmmkdaz Posts: 335
    timmins.william said:

    Another option to tiling bump maps is a procedural bump map, like the one listed in my sig. It's the basis for the skin preset, that has a mildly mottled color and bump that holds up under close scrutiny.

     

    Can you post some examples of these procedurals working as bumps?

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,045

    I could do better, but some experiments:

    http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/Procedural-skin-test-G3F-585457142

    http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/G3F-Skin-Experiment2-582490179

    http://www.sharecg.com/get_image.php?type=WebPage&upload_image_id=150206

     

  • SorelSorel Posts: 1,407
    j cade said:

    And another render with a nicer iris texture, I do love that Daz has kept all their iris uv layouts pretty much the same since v4, these irises are cribbed from a v4 set. I think at some point I need to go through and pick all my favorites and make a bunch of presets.

     

    I do really wish Iray had a clever way to work more on certain parts of the image the way luxrender does, it would probably be quicker to do sopt renders for the eyes in addition to the full render so the whole thing doesnt have to bake as long. The eyes here still arent fully baked.

    If I may ask, what IOR are you using for the cornea and eye moisture? I'm actually not sure if I should be using eye moisture or not.

  • ToyenToyen Posts: 1,918

    Isn't the material zone "eye moisture" used for the fake reflections in 3Delight thus it has no use in Iray?

  • SorelSorel Posts: 1,407

    I was thinking that, just not too sure.

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    Gr00vus said:

    So, eventually you're going to give us your eye shader settings again so we can steal them, right? Because they look great.

    j cade said:

    And another render with a nicer iris texture, I do love that Daz has kept all their iris uv layouts pretty much the same since v4, these irises are cribbed from a v4 set. I think at some point I need to go through and pick all my favorites and make a bunch of presets.

     

    I do really wish Iray had a clever way to work more on certain parts of the image the way luxrender does, it would probably be quicker to do sopt renders for the eyes in addition to the full render so the whole thing doesnt have to bake as long. The eyes here still arent fully baked.

     

    Here's the settings for the moisture and cornea and sclera. One of the keys for me is that the cornea and sclera share all the same settings, no other way to make it so that there isn't some sort of line. Irises I leave at their default settings mostly. maybe up the bump but that's it.

     

    any settings not shown are unmodified.

     

    The cornea and sclera volumetric settings are just fiddling guesswork, I doubt they're physically accurate, but they work well enough.

    Untitled-1.jpg
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  • AndyGrimmAndyGrimm Posts: 910
    edited January 2016

    @j cade

    your last one looking great... it is a shame how the G3 eyes looking without custom morphs.

    i face the same problem here...the render takes about 4 hours till the eyes clean up...    i switched on caustic for this one.. but i am not sure if it is better with or without....  modelled the iris and that is what actually creates the "deepness"...   what do you think ?  where can i try to improve it ?

    Which Hdri did you use for your render above? i would like to compar emily with the same light settings you used above .. is it a free HDri ?

    emily-wth eye correction.png
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    Post edited by AndyGrimm on
  • AndyGrimmAndyGrimm Posts: 910
    edited January 2016

    i find it interesting that wikihuman using the sclera on the outer eye... and the iris is one large texture on the inner eye.. the radius is done using a refraction mask on the outer eye (cornea). i would not construct it that way on my own.. but the results are actually looking good.

    Post edited by AndyGrimm on
  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    The Pixar Campus one

     

    That render looks much improved to me. Could you do a quick render with the iris a solid color,? it doesnt have to bake all the way

    Something like the attached.

      It makes it easier to see what the light is doing. (the ring of light on the bottom right is actually caused more by refraction than the shape of the iris)

    eyeflat.png
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  • AndyGrimmAndyGrimm Posts: 910
    edited January 2016

    that's a nice spot on the pixar map, thx... i need to start keeping note over the dome rotations values which look great smiley,

    well...  between the fireflies there is a little bit too see what the light does...   i modelled the iris more like a "bagle" and not like flat crater ...   i noted that most brown eyes have a "higher shape" then blue/grey ones...   but .. well..  i just compared some macro shots...  not sure about this yet smiley

    emily-firefly.png
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    Post edited by AndyGrimm on
  • AndyGrimmAndyGrimm Posts: 910

    based on the eye texture i think this macro shot comes close to her eye type.... and you used more the flat blue/grey crater type with a outer border ?

    iris.jpg
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  • Hiro ProtagonistHiro Protagonist Posts: 699
    Toyen said:

    Isn't the material zone "eye moisture" used for the fake reflections in 3Delight thus it has no use in Iray?

    In G3 it also incorporates the "tear", the meniscus along the edge of the lower lid. This is something that should be simulated for a realistic depiction of the eye (in fact the meniscus is a long the top as well, but isn't modelled in DAZ figures). So if you cut out the Eye Moisture surface you will lose the "tear" along with it. You could create a simple cut out mask, I suppose, that keeps the tear but cuts out the dome part that covers the sclera and iris.

  • AndyGrimmAndyGrimm Posts: 910

    5 hours and the eyes are still not finish - but minimum it is to see that the light does actually "bounce" around on the iris.

    I also made a test shifting the iris texture to blue/green/greyish... but to me this texture does definitly work best on brown... maybe i have to create my own to improve from here..

    emily-6hours.png
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    emily-1.png
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  • AndyGrimmAndyGrimm Posts: 910

    @timmins.william

    Your experiments looking promising. did you try to overlay a texture/bump with a procedural noise only for microdetails?

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,045

    I wanted to see how much I could do with pure procedural -- all examples use a Perlin noise-based procedural shader for color and bump. (If you check out my free shaders, 'WTP Skin Fair' is the starting point)

    The color noise uses two very similar colors, adding a hint of variation that keeps the eye from going 'that looks like a doll.' The pores use a flattened threshold so it's mostly flat with little dips.

    The eyebrows are Laticis free fibermesh eyebrows, the colored lips are simply that zone given a different color.

     

    Now, you CAN start with a color map and bump map and add extra variation. (I THINK it works for the bump map, I know it works for the color)

    So if you want to start with an existing skin and add variation, easy to do.

    Also, you can always add in displacement and Normal maps to add more detail not covered by the procedural shader.

    There are, obviously, limits and reasons you would probably want to start with some existing skin map. This would be even more noticeable with darker skin, where wrinkles and palms tend to be colored distinctly differently.

     

  • JimbowJimbow Posts: 557

    Don't know if you've seen it, but this might be of interest:

    Skin Microstructure Deformation with Displacement Map Convolution

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,256

    OK.  More advice.  Now that I'm on 4.9.  Not having so many issues with weirdness but now I need some advice on how to warm the skin up BUT not have it look overly saturated.  I want it to look like normal Italian skin with just enough tan to give her that healthy glow.  I tried Sickleyield's "on the beach" settings but she just looks like she's overly saturated to my eyes as well as darker.  So messed with the settings so more and now she looks like she's got Zombie skin!  lmao  *throws hands up*

    Help? 

     

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    Current Bruna Skin Settings 1-29-2016.jpg
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