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well - displacement is not faster then high poly mesh.... and it also needs the same memory.... i have 10 - 15 frames/sec with a 10 Mio mesh in mudbox on my weak system.... you are to afraid of polycounts - i would be more worry about 16k 32 Bit textures then the poly count
Frames Per Second!
what are you running!? ("UT 2004 Max Video Options" comment echoes back). Is it made by IBM or CRAY? Is that "Weak system" listed here? http://www.top500.org/list/2015/11/
I may possibly be getting "Frames Per Day", NOT Second.
I have a single GPU, and it's also driving a few displays, so it's kind of limited from the word 'Go'. I only have a single CPU socket on this motherboard already with the largest and fastest CPU they make for it, so My options there are rather limited.
ok - just tested it... DAZ start to leg a little bit but is still workable with a static 4,35 Mio mesh.... now let's say rigged and all the needed bend morphs and so on.... a 200 - 500k model should still fit well...(on my weak card).
Mudbox IS FAST...Zarcon... with the rigged 4.3 MIo daz mesh.. i still had 30 frames right before... (tested)... my system brakes only down with a full textured character.. then it drops to 5 - 15 frames... and that's only because i have just 8GB ram.
ZarconDeeGrissom
I am on a simple Asus labtop, 8gb ram... 1gb entry nvidia ....
....
here a screenshot.. 38 frames upleveled to 4.35 mio mesh... rigged. the same mesh lags in DAZ.. so DAZ is clearly sower
But anyway... my point is.. i miss a high resh DAZ character where the base has allready something between 200 - 500k polycount... that's enough to sculpt all needed wrinkels and expression morph/bends...
I had some fun dusting off the V3 and V4 meshes and messing around with them in Zbrush. It is pretty amazing the detail you can carve into V3's face with so many polys available. I've really gotten spoiled by V7's bending though, it's so so so much more natural than V3 and V4.
There is a technical hurdle that I just can't sort out, which unless I can figure out a workaround will probably mean that working with V3 or V4 isn't worth the trouble for me: DAZ's Morph Loader Pro won't recognize a V3 or V4 mesh import if I've reorganized the mesh's polygroups in zBrush. Rearranging the polygroups is pretty necessary for my workflow, mainly to seperate the polygons in the face from the polys in the eyelashes, teeth etc. It's just a mess to deal with otherwise. I've imported custom morphs for Genesis 2 and Genesis 3 figures up til now. With both of those generations I always rearrange the polygroups to suit me, and Morph Loader doesn't have a problem with it. For some reason it won't load a morph for V3 or V4 unless the polygroups stay original though. Unfortunately, in zBrush there is no way I know of to restore a polygroup layout after it has been changed. Maybe someone with experience importing morphs for V3 or V4 has some advice?
And yeah, Sorel, I feel you on that one regarding wishing we users had the HD morph import tool. DAZ has always been unyielding on the subject when it was brought up on the forum in the past. I wonder if they might reevaluate their reasons for keeping the tool unavailable to us, now that HD morphs have been out for a couple years and they seem to not be capitalizing much on it anymore. It might make them more money to sell the tool as an add-on to DAZ Studio. I'd pay a relatively high price just so I'd never have to deal with displacement map seam issues anymore, among other current limitations.
I'd buy such a thing immediately. That said, the facial bones in the genesis 3 models have really improved the realism of expressions you can make inside studio over the previous generations.
I'm so sorry, I thought you were referring to Iray Render performance, not the OpenGL view field interface. Because quite often a spot render is needed to see something (more like many things, not just setting up lights). I thought you were saying you were getting 10 to 15 Iray renders per second, lol.
yeah I know right? I alway thought the point of the HD Tool was that you could RENDER high poly instead of having to manually up the subd in the viewport, was really shocked that you couldn't import higher poly meshses in general.
It's got to do with the parametric rigging/each group being a separate mesh. That is one of the major advances with the whole Genesis line.
You, at the very least, are probably messing up the vertex order by regrouping them...
There is definitely something in Studio that slows things down...dumping a scene to render in the standalone 3DL can gain as much as 6x speed increase (something that takes 30 mins to render in Studio, renders in 5 mins or less as a RIB...and it's been that way for a while even when the standalone 3DL was core locked to 2 cores and Studio wasn't...it was still faster on a 4 core machine). I don't imagine that Iray is any different (other than there isn't an easy way to do side by side testing).
:-).... well i just render the 4.35mio mesh now in daz iray.... i dont note that it takes longer then the base mesh... because both are very slow
.... maybe someone else with faster card(s) should do such tests to confirm - but as far as i can say... the mesh count does NOT slow down iray a lot.... textures do this.
In Iray, geometry is cheap...it's textures are costly.
@mjc1016
thx.. so i can stop my test now.. ,, is it actually possible to export the bend morphs? or if i try to uplevel a gen3 base and get her fully working with bend morphs - would i have to do everything from scratch ? just asking myself how much workload a high res model would be.
If you subd'd gen3 exported the object you could then use the transfer utility to get all the morphs, rigging back in. However the jcms wont keep their jcming, you'd have to re-set up their automatic dialing also the rigging following morphs. Alternatively instead of resetting up all that stuff, you could just fit it to normal gen3 and all that stuff would go automatically.
I did a quick test of this and it worked, just needid a bit of weight map smoothing
What about UV mapping?
Wouldn't you want to subdivide it in something that will also do the mapping or doesn't it matter?
ok - thx... will try myself when i have more time... that's a interesting learning project.
...I understand with Nvidia's Pascal architecture it will be a minimum of 16 GB with something like 5,000 - 6,000 cores and in a much smaller form factor which will also be more energy efficient.
j cade, that's brilliant! So simple too. With all of these myriad tools and methods available, I often miss seeing an obvious solution like this.
I did a little test - exported a default G3F mesh with subD 3 (about a million polygons) from DAZ, and added some details to the face and torso in Z-Brush. Then I reimported that altered hi-res mesh as an .obj back into DAZ. I used the transfer tool to fit it to G3F (used default "bodysuit" settings) and made the original G3F invisible so that I could only see my high res mesh. Then I applied a pose preset to the original G3F and the high res mesh took the pose with automatic bends applied beautifully. There is some surface lumpiness in the bends though, I asssume that's where it needs weight map smoothing as you mentioned. I have no clue about adjusting weight maps. Is fixing this a trivial thing, or very laborious and difficult? If you have any tips about how to do it or a good online guide, that would be amazing.
As a further test, I did a horn morph on the high res mesh in z-brush and imported it with Morph Loader Pro - it worked perfectly. This opens up some really interesting possibilities :) I'm thinking that even if the weight map smoothing on the joints is a problem, I should at least be able to make some morphable hi resolution faces that can be applied to G3F like masks, since weight maps aren't an issue on the face. Very exciting!
@pearbear: Top stuff. I'm wondering if V4 or V3 can be fitted to G3F using something like R3DS:Wrap to do the initial morph to match G3F's shape.
http://www.russian3dscanner.com/
Wow, I hadn't seen Wrap before... Now that looks like a useful tool! Hoo boy, so many toys to investigate...
I was actually seeing the poly lines on Dawn during many of the test renders for the skin settings so went to the Mesh Resolution area and set all up to Sub Level to 2 and Render SubD level to 4 just to test things out. Looks great now. Now sure what the minimum should be set to to get those lines from showing but at the max the render time didn't really increase all that much.
I've seen you mention this before, is it just as simple as setup the image in studio, export as RIB and open with 3delight standalone? Or is there anything I need to do to make the export/import process smoother?
Don't know if it's the same issue, but I've had that happen when a figure's mesh resolution is set to High but subdiv is at zero. Changing to Base mesh fixed it for me.
On a Mac it can be very problematic, but on Windows machine it's very easy...
Under Render Settings, click on Advanced
Then you will find this...
Then, you pick a location to save it in/filename. There will be two RIBs generated. One outside the folder that the 'collect' feature creates and one inside. The outside one points to files in the temp folder...so you may get correct output while Studio is still open. The one inside the collect folder points to the files within the folder. I always use that one, as the files are always there.
Then run renderdl from the command line (dos box, whatever it is being called these days)...you can associate the RIB with renderdl and do them by double clicking, but I prefer to associate the RIB format with a text editor (yes, you can edit them and make changes).
Awesome, always good to learn new things. I've heard there were things we could do with the standalone 3delight that aren't in Studio. I'll have to poke around and find out. :)
Hi everyone.
My head is spinning from all this info.
I really love alot of what I have seen and have managed to get some results I like(although my skin might be a bit too soft).
I have a few questions and requests that I´ll post. Some I could find out by going back over the thread, but it would probably mean I have to read every page again and my head will explode.
For my purposes (although I agree that a shader is most useful if it is versatile enough to work under any light and with any texture) what I have seen posted by
Toyen, Pearbear and AndyGrimm (I am sure I have forgotten someone) is what I am going for.
So here goes.
I have been really stupid when saving out my experiments and now I am very confused as to whether or not I actually have saved the latest settings or previous findings.
Could someone post what is considered the most up-to-date settings for skin. A sort of recap of the past 65 pages O_o
One thing I havent done yet is altering maps in PS. I am not quite clear exactly what I need to do. I read many pages back about "greying down" the diffuse texture. Do you mean simply lowering saturation or contrast or something else?
This brings me to ask if someone can point me to or post samples of how the different maps are supposed to look....i.e Gloss, bump, diffuse and any other maps.
Traditionally atleas I feel that bumps etc made for daz figures are not necessarily accurate, but rather "good enough". Made by desaturating diffuse etc.
Brings me to other things that have been mentioned that is needed for realism, microdetail etc. I am alitte unclear of where to put tiled pores etc. Some descriptions seem to suggest several maps in a single channel and I´m not familiar with how to do that in Daz. If its possible could someone also put a clear list of what maps are needed and where to put them.
Starts to sound as if I just want a free ride, but I have actually read the entire thread AND studied other sources as well...however the other sources deal with other renderers and its not always clear to me how to translate it to Iray. I start to feel bad for wanting so much, but large threads like this one is really daunting to try to go back over for specific info....esp as I am not sure what info I need to review :P
Thank you all for all the great work and I hope this thread will live on.
EDIT: Saving out my screenshots I see that I have an older shader...several settings are from earlier in the thread (ss dir is negative for one) :( So yeah, that probably acounts for why I thought this test render was getting a little bit worse from previous. Also I´m gonna try and find the images from Toyen, Pearbear and Andygrimm that I really want to emulate.
EDIT^ Yeah, that is def NOT the latest shader :S must have done something weird when saving....I see sss amount set to 2 and top coat active..*sigh*
back to the lab
...yours isn't the only heads that is left spinning at this. I've been llurking in this thread for a while, and while some of the posted results are really nice, a lot of the nuts & bolts involved just go *WHOOOSH* over my head.
yeah, its like there is a war between the left and right side of my brain ^_^
I started experimenting with altering maps...here I tried to just "grey down" the diffuse and do a really saturated map for translucency.
I didn´t really like it at first, but today I´m not sure...nose is too pink, and ears dont get translucent enough unless I crank the backlight. Maybe the overall skin is too greyish? This is just the face and ears...so ignore rest :P and haven´t bothered with bumps and gloss etc... Also, why are the lashes pink? :P