Fiddling with Iray skin settings...

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  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,047

    fred: amazing. I love the hairline.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,749
    edited July 2016
    Vadrus said:

    Decided to see how things held up using an HDRI only, not sure if it's ended up looking to blue or not.

    Will post up the settings tonight when I have more time and then people can point out the obvious flaws.

    I think she looks great! I love the settings! I was curious about the blue tint around the edges though. It looks very slightly "off", imo. Is that backscattering? 

    The blue is the sky....seriously.  Its from the sky in the HDRI reflecting off her skin.

    Yes, but I don't think that skin usually has that much reflectivity unless it's sweaty or wet. If you Google "girl outside" images you can see that the outter edges of people's skin doesn't reflect the blue sky. 

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,564

    Beautiful! That looks great! I love her freckles. She could use a bit more of a slightly bumpy texture as it looks a bit too smooth, imo. Are you using a bump map and normal map? 

    Yeh you're right. When I looked I found that the wrong texture was pulgged into bump, and no map for specular. So I plugged them in. [image (may) enlarge when clicked]

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,749
    fred9803 said:

    Beautiful! That looks great! I love her freckles. She could use a bit more of a slightly bumpy texture as it looks a bit too smooth, imo. Are you using a bump map and normal map? 

    Yeh you're right. When I looked I found that the wrong texture was pulgged into bump, and no map for specular. So I plugged them in. [image (may) enlarge when clicked]

    The difference is subtle, but it's definitely there - nice work! I think she looks fantastic! :D

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943

    fred: amazing. I love the hairline.

    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/lua-updo/98898/

     

  • Yes, but I don't think that skin usually has that much reflectivity unless it's sweaty or wet. If you Google "girl outside" images you can see that the outter edges of people's skin doesn't reflect the blue sky. 

    If this blue is being caused by reflections of the sky then it's likely that the HDR environment image does not have a high enough dynamic range. Assuming there is a direct light source in the image it should have a much, much higher exposure value than the sky (or lit grass, etc.). Unfortunately there are quite a few IBLs around where the EV of the sun is not a whole lot, or not sufficiently, higher than the sky so it will not be able to overwhelm the blue reflected light, as it would in nature. So in this case I would look at the HDRI.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,466
    Vadrus said:

    Decided to see how things held up using an HDRI only, not sure if it's ended up looking to blue or not.

    Will post up the settings tonight when I have more time and then people can point out the obvious flaws.

    I think she looks great! I love the settings! I was curious about the blue tint around the edges though. It looks very slightly "off", imo. Is that backscattering? 

    The blue is the sky....seriously.  Its from the sky in the HDRI reflecting off her skin.

    Yes, but I don't think that skin usually has that much reflectivity unless it's sweaty or wet. If you Google "girl outside" images you can see that the outter edges of people's skin doesn't reflect the blue sky. 

    But we are not talking about a photograph, we are talking about this particular 3D image. I pretty much guarantee that it what it is.  Change nothing but the HDRI, and I bet the blue changes to something else.

  • VadrusVadrus Posts: 47

    Here's some more using different hdri's, none are very high res but give some nice looks.

    The settings are unchanged from my original render (luckily I'd saved the scene), the skin settings are identical in each case and there are no scene lights, the only illumination is from the hdri.

     

    2016-07-06 Briana - Old Industrial Hall HDRI.png
    1500 x 1500 - 2M
    2016-07-06 Briana - Tokyo Bigsite HDRI.png
    1500 x 1500 - 2M
    2016-07-06 Briana - Topanga Forest HDRI.png
    1500 x 1500 - 3M
    2016-07-06 Briana - Ueno Shrine HDRI.png
    1500 x 1500 - 2M
  • VadrusVadrus Posts: 47

    And just for a laugh, this is what happens if I turn the skin settings from scatter/transmit to scatter only!

    Very much the Orion slave girl look.

    I know it's been taken too far but I haven't tried to refine it yet from my initial experiment.

    Comments and advice welcome as always.

    2016-07-06 Briana - Scatter Only.png
    1500 x 1500 - 2M
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,749
    Vadrus said:

    Here's some more using different hdri's, none are very high res but give some nice looks.

    The settings are unchanged from my original render (luckily I'd saved the scene), the skin settings are identical in each case and there are no scene lights, the only illumination is from the hdri.

     

    Looks great, Vadrus! :D I think you did really good on the settings!

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,466

    Eyes.

    What a pain.

    So many different surfaces, so many differences of opinion on how to set them up.

    Who's got good ideas that work?

    What's your opinion on opacity maps on the eyes? I generally kick them out, because I find them to be more of a hindrance... but I am second guessing myself right now.

    Who's got the best eye textures? I lean towards the Project: Eyeris line

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,047

    I vote make everything superheroes, give them domino masks, and make the eyes pure white.

     

  • JimbowJimbow Posts: 557
    What's your opinion on opacity maps on the eyes? I generally kick them out, because I find them to be more of a hindrance... but I am second guessing myself right now.

    Who's got the best eye textures? I lean towards the Project: Eyeris line

    Opacity maps are good for older eyes, where the join between the sclera and iris softens.

    I've been using Dimension Theory's Project EYEray over the last week. Very nice indeed, although I'm slightly inclined to lift the base colour. The set also includes a setting for older eyes.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,466
    Jimbow said:
    What's your opinion on opacity maps on the eyes? I generally kick them out, because I find them to be more of a hindrance... but I am second guessing myself right now.

    Who's got the best eye textures? I lean towards the Project: Eyeris line

    Opacity maps are good for older eyes, where the join between the sclera and iris softens.

    I've been using Dimension Theory's Project EYEray over the last week. Very nice indeed, although I'm slightly inclined to lift the base colour. The set also includes a setting for older eyes.

    So, using it straight out of the box? No tweaks?

  • JimbowJimbow Posts: 557
    Jimbow said:
    What's your opinion on opacity maps on the eyes? I generally kick them out, because I find them to be more of a hindrance... but I am second guessing myself right now.

    Who's got the best eye textures? I lean towards the Project: Eyeris line

    Opacity maps are good for older eyes, where the join between the sclera and iris softens.

    I've been using Dimension Theory's Project EYEray over the last week. Very nice indeed, although I'm slightly inclined to lift the base colour. The set also includes a setting for older eyes.

    So, using it straight out of the box? No tweaks?

    Tweak the brightness of the base colour according to taste and your surrounding skin setup, I guess. I'll render something and you can judge for yourself.

  • JimbowJimbow Posts: 557

    Actually, someone's already created a thread on EYEray. There's a render to look at there.

  • fastbike1fastbike1 Posts: 4,078

    That's my render. For better or worse, I didn't tweak any shaders on the eye's or the skin. Catchlights aren't faked either. 

    Jimbow said:

    Actually, someone's already created a thread on EYEray. There's a render to look at there.

     

  • JimbowJimbow Posts: 557
    fastbike1 said:

    That's my render. For better or worse, I didn't tweak any shaders on the eye's or the skin. Catchlights aren't faked either. 

    Jimbow said:

    Actually, someone's already created a thread on EYEray. There's a render to look at there.

     

    Nice render. I tend to not render at gamma 2.2, so I usually have to tweak things.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,466

    In most cases they are pretty good, in some cases they are awesome.

    The cornea materials trouble be greatly, however.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,256

    Question.  What input do I use to plug in a layer of eyeliner?  It's actually "guyliner" for a male character I'm working on and want it as an option but don't want to plug that into another whole mess of full face materials which will just bloat the pack. 

    Thank you

    Rich

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,749
    RAMWolff said:

    Question.  What input do I use to plug in a layer of eyeliner?  It's actually "guyliner" for a male character I'm working on and want it as an option but don't want to plug that into another whole mess of full face materials which will just bloat the pack. 

    Thank you

    Rich

    I'm pretty new, so forgive me if this is not what you meant, but couldn't you use the Layered Image Editor to drop in the eyeliner over the face mat? Again, I'm sorry if my relative inexperience with Daz Studio makes that a stupid suggestion. lol

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,333
    fred9803 said:

    This one is G3F with V4 skin. [Click to enlarge]

    Beautiful! That looks great! I love her freckles. She could use a bit more of a slightly bumpy texture as it looks a bit too smooth, imo. Are you using a bump map and normal map? 

    Quite cute, she looks like Martina Hingis.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,256
    RAMWolff said:

    Question.  What input do I use to plug in a layer of eyeliner?  It's actually "guyliner" for a male character I'm working on and want it as an option but don't want to plug that into another whole mess of full face materials which will just bloat the pack. 

    Thank you

    Rich

    I'm pretty new, so forgive me if this is not what you meant, but couldn't you use the Layered Image Editor to drop in the eyeliner over the face mat? Again, I'm sorry if my relative inexperience with Daz Studio makes that a stupid suggestion. lol

    Hi,

    Thanks for your reply.  I'd prefer to find a way to add it in in the nodes in the Surfaces area.  I never use LIE.  Thanks again!  :-)

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,749
    RAMWolff said:
    RAMWolff said:

    Question.  What input do I use to plug in a layer of eyeliner?  It's actually "guyliner" for a male character I'm working on and want it as an option but don't want to plug that into another whole mess of full face materials which will just bloat the pack. 

    Thank you

    Rich

    I'm pretty new, so forgive me if this is not what you meant, but couldn't you use the Layered Image Editor to drop in the eyeliner over the face mat? Again, I'm sorry if my relative inexperience with Daz Studio makes that a stupid suggestion. lol

    Hi,

    Thanks for your reply.  I'd prefer to find a way to add it in in the nodes in the Surfaces area.  I never use LIE.  Thanks again!  :-)

    Ah I see. That's understandable. LIE is a little bit of a pain in the bottom to use, IMO. Thanks for not laughing at me for the dumb suggestion. :) 

  • Arnold CArnold C Posts: 740
    edited July 2016
    RAMWolff said:
    RAMWolff said:

    Question.  What input do I use to plug in a layer of eyeliner?  It's actually "guyliner" for a male character I'm working on and want it as an option but don't want to plug that into another whole mess of full face materials which will just bloat the pack. 

    Thank you

    Rich

    ...I'd prefer to find a way to add it in in the nodes in the Surfaces area.  I never use LIE...

    There's no way to apply such thing via the Surface Tab and material zone values as you want to, since there's no seperate material zone for eyelids/eyelid borders on any of the DAZ's figures (nor does such exist on any other I know).

    The only ways to apply "eyeliner" is either via LIE, like divamakeup suggests (but a bit more complicated than it really needs to be) or, the easiest:

    apply eyeliners by painting them directly onto the Diffuse (Albedo) Texture Map (and the SSS Texture Map, if it's one of the newer figures. You don't want to have your Translucency/SSS Reflectance Tint shine through/tint your eyeliner). I'd use SnowSultan's SeamGuides doing that, that way you'll find the appropriate location to apply it to the Diffuse Map more easier.

    Post edited by Arnold C on
  • JimbowJimbow Posts: 557
    edited July 2016

    You could use a geometry shell and switch everything off except for the lips and face. You'd need to create a mask in Photoshop or Gimp or whatever you use and have completely different materials for the makeup, much like real life. The geometry shells work very well in iray these days, and a number of products use them for things like water and blood sitting on top of the skin. You just need to make the shell's offset really, really tiny, and copy the same maps for bump and normal to the same slots on the geometry shell surfaces*. I always use geoemetry shells for dirt, etc, these days.

    If you use a mask-based geometry shell, the beauty is you can change colours of the makeup without affecting the figure's skin at all.

    * Unless you want a smoother makeup to sit on top of your skin - you really can try all sorts of things.

    Post edited by Jimbow on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,749
    edited July 2016
    RAMWolff said:
    RAMWolff said:

    Question.  What input do I use to plug in a layer of eyeliner?  It's actually "guyliner" for a male character I'm working on and want it as an option but don't want to plug that into another whole mess of full face materials which will just bloat the pack. 

    Thank you

    Rich

    I'm pretty new, so forgive me if this is not what you meant, but couldn't you use the Layered Image Editor to drop in the eyeliner over the face mat? Again, I'm sorry if my relative inexperience with Daz Studio makes that a stupid suggestion. lol

    Hi,

    Thanks for your reply.  I'd prefer to find a way to add it in in the nodes in the Surfaces area.  I never use LIE.  Thanks again!  :-)

    Ok so I just made an eyeliner material preset using LIE and it was super fast and easy. I think you should try it. It took me all of like 3 minutes. lol :) 

    I just brought in the face map into Photoshop, added a new layer over the face map, painted small dots in the four corners of the new layer (this will ensure that the translucent layer stays the same size as the face map) and then painted eyeliner over the eye lids. Save the file as a TIF or PNG and name it something like Face_EyeLiner, then delete the face map and save the eyeliner layer again.

    Then open up the surfaces tab and over the main face map use LIE to place the new eyeliner. 

    Add new layer:

     

    Click on the Resource button and browse to your new eyeliner map:

     

    Then click on the Blend Mode and choose Multiplicative Blend:

     

    Hit accept and save it as a Material Preset. It takes longer to explain than it actually took to do. lol 

    It only took like 3 minutes to do. :) Very fast. 

    I'm definitely going to be using this method more in the future and create some of my own custome makeup options. :)

     

     

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,333
    RAMWolff said:
    RAMWolff said:

    Question.  What input do I use to plug in a layer of eyeliner?  It's actually "guyliner" for a male character I'm working on and want it as an option but don't want to plug that into another whole mess of full face materials which will just bloat the pack. 

    Thank you

    Rich

    I'm pretty new, so forgive me if this is not what you meant, but couldn't you use the Layered Image Editor to drop in the eyeliner over the face mat? Again, I'm sorry if my relative inexperience with Daz Studio makes that a stupid suggestion. lol

    Hi,

    Thanks for your reply.  I'd prefer to find a way to add it in in the nodes in the Surfaces area.  I never use LIE.  Thanks again!  :-)

    Ok so I just made an eyeliner material preset using LIE and it was super fast and easy. I think you should try it. It took me all of like 3 minutes. lol :) 

    I just brought in the face map into Photoshop, added a new layer over the face map, painted small dots in the four corners of the new layer (this will ensure that the translucent layer stays the same size as the face map) and then painted eyeliner over the eye lids. Save the file as a TIF and name it something like Face_EyeLiner, then delete the face map and save the eyeliner layer again (making sure you're saving it as TIF).

    Then open up the surfaces tab and over the main face map use LIE to place the new eyeliner. 

    Add new layer:

     

    Click on the Resource button and browse to your new eyeliner map:

     

    Then click on the Blend Mode and choose Multiplicative Blend:

     

    Hit accept and save it as a Material Preset. It takes longer to explain than it actually took to do. lol 

    It only took like 3 minutes to do. :) Very fast. 

    I'm definitely going to be using this method more in the future and create some of my own custome makeup options. :)

     

     

    I've been wanting to mess with LIE. That looks good.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,256

    Thank you.  I'm still not convinced there is no way to do this through the Surfaces tab.  In 3Delight I could do that easily by plugging in the eyeliner via the Diffuse Stength node, sort of a way to layer without dealing with LIE.  With how brilliant iRay is I just can't believe there is nothing similar to that!  sad

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