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This is one of those occasions when I wish DAZ developers would chime in to offer some advice and suggestions. I know the mods are going to be falling over each other to tell me to log a ticket but, in my experience, tickets suggesting improvements (fixes) are just ignored. It took them years just to look at the disappearing mouse cursor thing.
While I can understand the frustration, not being fixed (for bugs) or implemented (for feature requests) doesn't mean ignored - there are a lot of considerations that go into when something is done, including how much diffrence it will make to end uers, whether that section of the code is being worked on (or is slated for some attention in future), and how a great a risk there is of triggering other issues.
That is broadly what a projection morph does, where the auto-follow on the clothing is told to follow a morph that the figure itself ignores. This can indeed smooth out between or under the breasts.
For the sake of a demonstration, here's the one I now have for Whisky (with the same top as before).
However, these still have their issues, chief among which are:
Problem 1: These can be *extremely* sensitive to the original shape they're built on, and they're difficult to make in a way where they will stack well, particularly if extreme morphing is involved. So you again get into a situation where users get limited in how many morphs they can combine before problems happen.
Problem 2: They cause hassle with geografts or clothes that are supposed to be close fitting, because they also try to correct those, and the user needs to manually go in and disable it.
~~~~~
The latter is actually a problem that pervades a lot of the solutions that approach the problem we want to solve here. We need a solution that stops shirts clinging, but *does* keep underwear close fitting without causing hassle to users, and in a way that doesn't require updating a back catalogue of tens of thousands of items to work with that new function. (Bear in mind, Daz are only the marketplace, and copyright means that most changes to content have to be made by the vendor, not themselves).
While it's an irritating problem, this is actually an extremely difficult one to solve without creating new issues.
This was basically the same thing I was trying to create but not sure how to do a projected morph. Is this a commercial product here on Daz? What if after applying this morph you did a dforce weight map setting the breast area to a really low weighting or none. If it's at 0% smoothing will it then become unconnected (or seeming like) to the associated character/submesh polys?
I hear you...
Its like the original problem was kinda solved by a solution that created more/different problems that were kinda solved by solutions for the solution, that caused their own problems....
vicious in it's cyclical nature.
My heart tells me (my heart knows nothing about 3d modeling, for the record), that the answer lies back at the original problem, or in this case the Basic G8F.
If we substitute a shape that doesn't have cleavage to cling to, or an undercurve/hidden crevice between boob and body, then I'd think" the auto-fit calculations wouldn't have to go into those areas.
Again I am just talking about a substitute shape that you could click on/click off. So click on, shape the top, click off, shape gone and your back to normal boobs, but the clothing would still be shaped to eliminate the problems.
At the very least, I would think there would be a way to "paint" on the model, areas where you didn't want auto-fit/auto flow to go... is that possible?
Almost like a weight map brush that I can say, here, in these areas between breasts and under breasts, I don't want you to follow the topography of the GF8, but instead, just use the shape of the clothing that was provided.
No, it would still cling - possibly more. Look at clothing for the original Genesis.
No, this morph is completely custom. I used dForce to sim a bodysuit (made from the G8F torso mesh) over the zeroed breasts until it looked about reasonable for how a shirt should fit, then did a timeline simulation to fit that over the morphed breasts (again, until it looked like a good fit); smooth to get rid of creases, turn the sims into morphs, subtract the difference between the two, then project that shape back onto G8F and then reload it over the desired shape (which has now been baked to a stand-alone morph that won't trigger any correctives on clothing).
You're basically describing DS's auto-follow rigidity maps, but these are not particularly recommended for fitting around the breasts, because they again introduce new problems. For one example, these maps also stiffen morphs added by tools like Breast Fixer or Fit Control, which means that if the rigidity's results aren't perfect on their own (and it won't for example correct for issues caused by pose rather than morph alone), then the user loses most of their capacity to make further adjustments.
These are all tools that exist, but they're largely not used because they have new and often bizarre side effects.
This isn't an issue that's just being ignored; the problem of automatically shaping clothes to fit any possible combination of shapes a user might dial in (including shapes from other stores where Daz cannot set product standards) is not a simple challenge.
if you are using Dforce the clothing actually doesn't need to be fit to the figure just closely match the shape.
You could always fit it to get the bits you don't want to Dforce the right shape, export it as an obj (hiding everything else and at base resolution) and create a morph using attenuation for those parts.
Then run an animated drape simulation from the A pose to your pose.
or don't export an obj for a morph
just don't fit it at all and start with the base figure and morph and pose it in an animated drape
I build morphs to correct this, in Blender, but that is pretty tedious and my morphs never make it further than a single picture.
It's occurred to me that maybe I could make PBM morphs and add them to the clothing so that I only need to do it once per garment. Does that sound like something I should look into, or would I just find that when I start to blend things together, I need to correct it anyway? (Or have I completely misunderstood what PBM morphs do?)
I have similar problems like y'all, a bit more specific even maybe, because I often do historical renders, and it's about impossible to create an accurate 'corset worn under heavy stuff dress' silhouette. I found it does help to put actual underwear underneath the offending garment, with dForce items only of course. For example, I've had shirts fall much more naturally over a bra than just the bare breast. Which seems more realistic also, considering most women wear something underneath.
Andrew... Yes.
I'll try anything, so if you wanna give it a go, proceed!
Tsroemi
Which dForce bra gives the most "support"? :0
On my dForce thread I have instructions on how to create a dForce breast helper: instructions here
Image shows results
Oh wow, this looks great, will try that!
Thanks, I will give it a try!
Agree it's fantastic, I'll also try that!
(I bought your recent course too BTW - that's fantastic too!)
Does that also work for the under-bust crease line or would that cylinder need to be extended down the abdomen somewhat?
There's so much in that thread (and I also bought the indexed course) and yet I forget to look there for solutions. Thanks for the reminder.
Thanks for getting the course AndrewJJP and Marble. You can always ask me questions on my thread as needed.
I'm not sure. If I recall, I ended it where I did because lower may have been giving a different results but you can always try it. In my example I ran the helper dForce simulation than did the clothing simulation, I've wondered if there's a way to spawn a morph to add to the clothing item but don't know how that would work.
@Chumly: A novel idea of "bridging prop" to prevent cloth vacuum forming to the breasts. This, too, is a peeve of mine.
Thank you to Matt Castle for providing some of an explantion, but I can"t help but think that the moon was reached in a decade, but we can't solve this....
@ Kyoto Kid, yeah! Bring back that V3 Spandex morph!
just going to say this.
This was done in Poser years ago along with a butt crack filler(I think it was a morph for conforming stuff). why has it taken this long to do it in daz studio?
Didnt someone come out with a butt de-cracker for the G figures some time back?
I'm curious on how useful it would be if you were able to dial out the breasts from a character and use a standard shape instead. When you have clothing on with a bra then the shape does not matter that much anymore, they all look more or less the same - just larger or smaller with slight variations in shape. So you'd have the custom breast shape to use for character nudes, but use default breast shapes to fit clothing. Love it? or hate it.
That isn't really accurate. For Poser figures the morph prohjection would work, and that was also used in older Genesis products doing the same job. More recently it tends to be done with a projection morph, which is a special version of the morph used for projection but not showing in the mesh. Indeed, I don't think Poser supports, at least until recently, the trick used in the past - of having a morph designed to go into the clothes and a second morph that undid its effects on the figure but didn't project into the clothing.
But bras have given different shapes over the years, in response to fashion.
Yes - it would need variations to change shape, but on a single base morph instead of zillions of character morphs
I'm no expert and have never worn a bra but have had more than one partner who did. Not only that but I have eyes and, in the instant before I'm obliged to avert them, I have noticed that there does not seem to be a "standard shape" out there on the street. I know that there are bras being worn because, as they pass by and I get a rear view, there are definite (sometimes pronounced) indentations where the bra is deforming the flesh (and therefore the top clothing).
Sorry to be a male making the point but, in short, I don't really want a one-size, standard shape for all of my female characters.
Your commented reminded me of an example I have. Breasts Gone set to 100% at frame 0 and back to 0% at frame 5. Only works when you are dForce'ing the shirt (I used Gym Uniform Shirt for this). Image shows result at frame 10.
with dForce:
withhout dForce:
RGCincy has some good results.
I have been thinking about it too, and since I really don't understand all that well how/what Daz does what it does "under the hood" maybe I am chasing my tail...
Regardless, I exported a g8 to Zbrush and played around a bit... just as a proof of concept. And then imported back to daz as morph. I put a GF8, with breast enlarged next to my morphed up one. While it might not look it inthe pictures, both models have about what is the same size... intended to be a realistic/larger size
I then put some different clothes on em... I had the best results with dForce clothing, though I didn't simulate any of it, just put the clothes on the manequinn and adjusted smoothing
Again, I really don't know what I am doing....
The above was a slinky loin style dress, that didn't have a plunging neckline so it looks pretty good.
The last was a sports top... mixed results. On some of the non dForce clothes, it almost looks like there is a third boob in the middle. I guess this is how daz reads the morph... I don't know how to adjust auto follow...
This one really gives a good example of what is wrong with both approaches. I am kind of curious how Daz hasn't come up with a built in solution yet, to a problem that is almost as old as the software.
I am so glad my figures wear minimal clothing in my projects, LOL
In my experience, dForce maintains the cloth distortion created by the larger bust and the under-bust crease. Those distortions often just droop downwards as the drape is simulated. A dForce solution would also require using the timeline with G8F completely cleared of any morphs at the start and those morphs gradually dialled in as the simulation progresses along the timeline.
I don't like using timeline drapes if I can avoid it because the timeline is difficult to clear and is saved with the scene (that is another issue extensively discussed elsewhere). The ability to save a single frame from a timeline drape is a big wish for a future version of DAZ Studio.
So much hassle for such a basic requirement.