Dell precision or Alienware?
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What kind of pc you use with Daz? Render times? Thanks!
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I use a self built machine that was one step down from top of the line about 2 1/2 years ago.. it does pretty well. If you're going for a prebuilt machine check out Asus, Alienware are nice machines but you're paying a lot extra for the name and a pretty glowing logo, you can get the same power for a lot less. Dell is also a bit pricy based on name but not as bad, I still think Asus is the better choice between those two.
Desktop PC or Laptop?
If you are going for a Desktop PC, it is always better (and most of the times cheaper) to select and buy the single components. Most pre-built PCs always have some "weak points", like not enough RAM, weak GPU, small HDD, slow CPU, weak PSU. If you select all the components by yourself, you will get what you want.
If you are not able to do so, go to your local PC dealer and tell him your needs and budget. I am sure he will help you building a PC that is better and cheaper than any pre-built one. Especially if you want something "good" and not "just mainstream".
Oh, and if your current machine is not too old, you will be able to use some components in your new machine, which will save you extra money.
...same here, mine as a homebuild that, while a couple generations old (Nehalem i7) is still well up to the task of creating and rendering.
Render times are subject to a number of different variables beyond just the hardware. Rendering a simple scene with a few lights in 3DL can take seconds to a couple minutes. Rendering a very busy scene with a several characters, subsurface shading, transparency maps (usually employed for foliage and hair) and reflectivity using UberEnvironment with HDRI can take many hours even on a powerful system. Using a "Real Physics" render engine like Lux (Reality/Luxus) or Iray can take hours to even days depending on the scene and effects desired. For example, I recently rendered a scene in 3DL with one character and a motorcycle where I used an HDRI set, and a five frame motion blur effect. The total render time was a whopping 16 hours and 32 minutes. In contrast, I rendered another scene in with three characters, a couple vehicles, that included a fair amount of reflectivity, transparency maps (trees and hair), and subsurface scattering using an Advanced Ambient, Distant, and Spotlight in just over 14 min.
Generally speaking a good fast multi core (hyperthreading) CPU like one of the current i7s, a decent GPU with a fair amount of graphics memory (especially for rendering with an engine like Iray or Octane that can take advantage of GPU based rendering), and as much memory one can afford (and the motherboard will support) is a good rule of thumb. Also never scrimp on the power supply. It's better to go for a bit of "overkill" here, especially if you are considering upgrading components later. I have a 750w unit in my system and usually top out at around half that when rendering.a big scene.
Unless you are considering a notebook, "off the shelf" prebuilds for the most part are compromises often with a barely adequate power supply for upgrading purposes. These systems also usually come bundled with a tonne of useless bloatware that only degrades the system's performance. If you are not into building a system yourself, I would look into custom build houses. They will be more expensive than a consumer electronics store/site, but it's you have more control over what you want and avoid what you don't want.
If you are looking at a notebook, one of the ASUS or MSI gaming ones would be a good choice. Both offer dual port flow through cooling for both the CPU and GPU on a number of their models. They also allow for some degree of custom configuration. While even these can be a bit expensive, they offer more than comparable Alienware systems do for the price.
Since 1994 I've had 6 PCs. Five of them were Dell Dimensions and one was a cheap Acer. None of them were speed kings, but the Dells held their own and were stable and satisfactory. Only one hardware problem on one of the Dells---the fan on a soundcard died and lots of problems ensued and eventually it was the end of that Dell. But it did last me five years.
I'd always get the maximum memory and harddrive space offered as well as the 'fastest' Dimension at the time of sale. Always, I mean every single one of 'em, I'd run out of harddrive space before I felt constrained by anything else. But today we have the little USB drives that are no longer super expensive so that has really helped (although in two of my Dells I had added a second harddrive after a year or so).
My current Dell is just over three years old and I really don't plan to replace it yet. Dell's service has always been good though I've had to deal with them rarely.
Correction: It was videocard fan that died, not the soundcard. The videocard was next to the soundcard and burned it out.
if I had the Money and Money dosn`t matter I would go for this one
Dell Precision Tower 7910 Workstation
Processor
Dual Intel® Xeon® Processor E5-2670 v3 (12C, 2.3GHz, Turbo, HT, 30M, 120W)
Operating System
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (Includes Windows 8.1 Pro license)
Memory11
64GB12 DDR4 at 2133MHz
Hard Drive
256GB 2.5” Serial-ATA Solid State Drive
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® Quadro® K5200 8GB (2 DP, 2 DL-DVI-I) (2 DP to SL-DVI adapter)
but... total cost around 9000 $
The problem with Dell is that they make it very hard to upgrade individual components on your system. I tried to upgrade my graphics card, but the vast majority of graphics cards were incompatible with my system. I wanted to upgrade my power supply, and again was unable to do so due to compatibility issues.
Their service was pretty bad, too. I wanted to increase the amount of RAM in my system, so I ordered the parts from Dell, installed them and discovered they didn't work. I called technical support and told them the parts were not working, so they had me try a few things, none of which solved the problem. They refused to sent me replacement parts, saying the problem was with my system and that I would have to reformat my hard drive and literally start from scratch - an option that would have take HUGE amount of time. Fortunately, I was able to find someone at Dell that was willing to send me the replacement parts, I installed them and they worked fine.
I could go on and on about all of the problems I had with 'Dell from Hell'. I will never do business with them again. I bought my most recent system from @xi http://www.xicomputer.com/ and I'm very happy with it. Their sales and tech support are great as well.
Unless you need to be portable you will get more power, reliability (from Hardware) and longevity from a desktop.
Dell makes good stuff, Alienware makes better stuff, I have Dell stuff at my office, it's reliable.
The only issue I have with ASUS (and I have built many ASUS rigs) is the customer support went from decent to horrible and if you need to get in touch with them it can be difficult to get any response.
There's no shame in not building, but there is a degree of excitement in it once you get past the fact you are you own tech support from that point on.
I'd stay the hell way from HP. The last few HP products sent to this office are constant points of failure.
...here's what I quickly cobbled together for just around 5,500$ (sans display)
Dual Xeon E5-2630 8 core with aftermarket CPU coolers (32 total processor threads)
Supermicro MBD-X10DAI-O dual LGA2011 socket 16 288 pin memory slots
128 GB DDR4 4 channel memory (8 x 16 GB) (expandable to 512 GB 16 x 32GB)
x1 256 GB Boot SSD, x1 1TB Runtime SSD, x1 2TB storage HDD.
Nvidia Titan X GPU (12 GB GDDR5 w/3072CUDA cores)
1050W power supply
DVD R/W
Full height case with multiple fans.
True this would be a homebuild as I'm sure were a custom house to put this together the price would be significantly higher.
Sure; homebuild would be much cheaper... but I had lots of Problems with homebuild PC`s.
My first 4 PC´s are homebuild and every week they stop working for two days or more because some Hardware causes conflicts (and it was no cheap Hardware).
...one thing you have to look for is component compatibility. I spent extra time researching this to make sure everything I was getting would work together without any conflicts. I found it pays to read the user comments and ask questions as some combinations of components just seem to get along better than others.
Device drivers can also be a major cause conflicts if not maintained and updated.
The system I currently have is my first ever homebuild and is still running well. The only component I had to replace in the last three years was the display (which was an old one that was given to me).
I always ask around if the components work together and get the same answer... yes, the work together. But for me they never realy did.
Grafic Card causes confict with Sound Card, Sound Card causes conflict with TV/Video Card and so on... even when the Grafic Card and the Sound Card are from the same Company they cause conflicts.
After 4 times having this kind of Problems with homebuild PC`s I only bought Pre Build Systems.
..ahh my system was built specifically for 3DCG. No TV, no games so yes, it is a bit more simplified with fewer points of conflict. The only time I use it to go online is to use the DIM, DL updates & freebies, or uploading finished images.
I do all my main Net activity on a notebook.
I can understand the frustration though (multiple failed attempts at learning Blender and having to deal with crash prone Hexagon).
In this case the best to option would be save up the funds and go to a custom build house to get a system more suited to your needs. Most off the shelf systems are more geared towards those who want to read emails, post to Facebook, manage home accounting, surf the Net, watch films, upload photos, etc. 3D rendering today demands a lot more from system resources than many store bought systems can handle.
Just curious, what graphics and sound card did your system have? Did the Motherboard also have an Intel integrated graphic chipset?
Also I often went to tech sites and forums like Tom's Hardware, C|net, and ZDNet with my questions and concerns.
All this was back in the times of Windows 95 and 98 and I had NVIDIA or MSI, Hauppauge and Pinnacle and Creative but also try others; but the main Problem was that for some things I had no alternative; for example the TV/Video Cards, I had to buy Pinnacle for my NTSC Videos (because no other could handle NTSC) and so the Problem occured that some Cards want to use the same Port (I think it was the Port - I can`t remember clearly) and if one was forced to use another Port it refused to work correct after a few days or somehow manage to claim the Port it want to use back and so causes conflicts with the other Card that already have this Port.
On one Hand I did not have enough space to use more than one PC or Laptop (since a few years I only use Laptops because it needs less space and I´m mobil).
On the other Hand I need a Computer for save and edit old Video Tapes (NTSC and PAL) record/save old Music Tapes and Records, (back in time for record and edit my own Music), for making Graphics (2D) and edit Photos and now 3D, and also for playing Games (I do not much gaming but if I do gaming I don`t want to be limited).
And at last... I don`t have enough Money to buy this High End Machine wich can handle all those things and be up to date for the next years
by now I have an Laptop; ASUS 2.4 GHz with 8GB RAM, i7 and NVIDIA Geforce GTX 880M. It can handle most things but it isn`t nearly as fast (render) as I want it to be... but it was the best that I can get for the 2000$ it cost.
...with video editing/archiving, music editing/archiving, and gaming, you do have more system demands than I.
Again, my workstation was specifically built for 3D work only so I was able to keep it rather "lean". No need for sound cards, TV/Video/Audio inputs and processing, game contollers/drivers, overclocking, etc.
I have a very similar Asus laptop, seems to work pretty well for what I need it to do and I'm generally very happy, but there is what I would consider a design flaw that worries me, as to pull the battery I have to crack open the chassis to get to it. All prior laptops I've owned, if there is some system failure that I have to a restart I could easily pull out the battery, but not so with this Asus. I haven't had any problems yet, but nervous about if something happens and I need to restart I actually have to open the chassis and fool around with the innards to get to the battery.
Did they correct this for newer versions? Or is your laptop the same?
Yes; it would be easier and maybe cheaper if I didn`t have the needs for doing als this with one Computer.
I was going to spare Money for buying the top end configuration of the Alienware Laptop with 2 NVIDIA Cards, wich cost twice as much as the ASUS I have now but since my last Laptop had a total Crash November last Year I had to buy a new one in about two days... and at this Point I 1.) did not have the Money for the Alienware and 2.) haven`t got the time to wait (4 Weeks or more) until it is delivered.
So collecting Money starting anew... and hopefully this time it is finished before the Laptop die
I have a very similar Asus laptop, seems to work pretty well for what I need it to do and I'm generally very happy, but there is what I would consider a design flaw that worries me, as to pull the battery I have to crack open the chassis to get to it. All prior laptops I've owned, if there is some system failure that I have to a restart I could easily pull out the battery, but not so with this Asus. I haven't had any problems yet, but nervous about if something happens and I need to restart I actually have to open the chassis and fool around with the innards to get to the battery.
Did they correct this for newer versions? Or is your laptop the same?
I had no Problem with the Battery.
I pull it out (very easy) after I bought it (it was a Laptop for showing in the Store, so I saved another 500 Bucks) and I never use the Laptop with Battery.
Mine is from the G Series G750JZ-T4023H
That's good, I very much like Asus and will likely purchase again, but I wanted to make sure I can pull the battery easily if/when I decide to upgrade my rig to the latest/greatest, so I'm glad to know they've apparently corrected this. Mine is an X750J, not sure what series that corresponds to but that's the most obvious sticker on it :)
As far as I see the Batterys of the G Series are different in the way they are conectet to the Laptop than the X Series.
The Republic of Gamers Laptop from ASUS are a very good compromise for someone who needs a allround Laptop (and did not have the Money for a Top of the End Laptop). I´m very satisfied with it (even it is not what I originally want). It can handel everything I want but not with the speed I desire.
...If you require mobility, then yes going the build it yourself route is not an option.
There are still custom builds available for notebooks and most gaming notebooks don't come with all the other bloatware that a big box store/site bought one does. Unfortunately you will most likely have to settle for Windows 8.1 unless a Win7 downgrade is offered.
Did a bit of digging and still find it hard to believe that the 880M has 8 GB dedicated GDDR5 when the newer 980M only has 4 GB..
That's crazy to me and yet from everything I can find it's true. Seems like a step backwards to me.
...indeed, sort of like LGA1150 motherboards going back to Dual Channel memory (a number of older LGA 1366 boards were configured for Tri Channel memory).
I hated to go for Windows 8.1.... but after 5 month of working with Windows 8.1 I must say it is not as bad as expected. To tell the truth; it is the fastest and most stable running PC/Laptop I ever had... and so far their are no Blue-Screens or similar Problems - any other PC (Windows 95/98/2000/XP) and any Laptop (Windows XP and 7 Professional) had from 3 up to 10 Blue-Screens or similar System-Chrash in the first 3 month... and many more after that...
With Alienware (and some other DELL Laptops and PC`s) you can choose between Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 - they build it the way you like.
GTX 880M has GDDR5-RAM 8 GB
I don`t know why the sell the GTX 980M with 4GB... I found Information on a testing Website who tells it can have up to 8 GB GDDR5-RAM
Benchmarks say that the GTX 980M is 40% (up to 50%) better than the GTX 880M.
...video memory is primarily important for pure GPU rendering in engines like Iray and Octane as the entire scene and textures must fit in it.
With the latest release of Octane one can use what is called Out of Core mode which loads just hte geometry into GPU memory and uses the CPU for the textures. According to what I have read render time performance in this mode is still very fast.
...but 379.00 € for a render engine... that`s to expensive for me... I only do it as a Hobby and don`t want to spend this much Money for a render engine.
...same here. That is one reason why I stuck with Reality/Lux for so long (until Iray). Another is that my Nvidia GPU is an old Fermi series with only 1GB GDDR5. Great in it's day, not anymore with the 12GB Titan-X that was just released. Furthermore, the Daz plugin for Octane is still a Beta and not a full stable release yet. Also, as it's Beta, why does it cost 99€ (108.65USD for us here in the States)? A Beta is still software that is in development and testing, therefore it should be free until the full finished stable version is released.
Yeah there have been issues with the Daz version of Reality4 (some of which I attribute to Daz 4.7 rolling out less than 12 days before Reality4) but the update only cost 19USD instead of 108USD.
Of course, now Iray was integrated into DazStudio with the 4.8 beta, so that has made this even better.
[quote author="Kyoto Kid" date="1428181245............ Also, as it's Beta, why does it cost 99€ (108.65USD for us here in the States)? ............
Maybe I missunderstand but I think your wrong...
the DAZ Plug In cost only 99€ (108.65$) when you already own a Stand Alone Licence.
If I understand it correctly you have to buy a Combo of Standalone and DAZ Studio Beta Edition
OctaneRender™ for DAZ Studio v2.x Beta + Standalone Combo v2.x License (379.00 €)
This is both a Standalone Edition license and a DAZ® Studio plugin license.
Choose this if you do not already own a standalone license.
The below are DAZ® Studio plugin license(s) ONLY.
Choose one of these if you already own the required Standalone Edition license(s).
OctaneRender™ for DAZ Studio v2.x Beta License (99.00 €)
OctaneRender™ for DAZ Studio v2.x Beta License 3-pack (279.00 €)
OctaneRender™ for DAZ Studio v2.x Beta License 5-pack (459.00 €)
OctaneRender™ for DAZ Studio v2.x Beta License 10-pack (899.00 €)
If you are lucky and be a Student you can gat a Octane Standalone (v1.20 only) Student License for FREE!
Never had any issue building my own. Back in the years of Win 95/98 main problem was with IRQ sharing if you had many PCI cards. That disappeared starting with Win 2000. The other was that along the years, Microsoft tried to keep compatibility. Win 95 was the first half 16 bit and half 32 bit system and the dos compatibility was more or less kept untill Win 7. That is one of the source of the BSOD
The other source is drivers. That is why MS began to enforce driver certification with Win 7. It is now more strict with Win 8. Back then it was possible for users to use uncertified drivers. Now with Win 8, it is not possible without deactivating certifications enforcement. So the OS is more stable
The only thing left that can now provoke BSOD is bad component. And in this field, MS can't do much unless they do like Apple and only accept hardware with some kind of certificate but that would end up being more expensive. Sometimes it's just an insignificant hardware : I recently replaced a defective SATA cable on a friend's computer that was making problems. Searched a few hours before finding the culprit. Your former notebook may only had a little defective component, who knows