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New Daz Studio release incoming.

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  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,822

    AllenArt said:

    So, I'm confused. Is this just a normal, next version of DS 4.x or the last version of DS4 before DS5? If not, why making the announcement? I don't recall you guys ever doing that before for just a normal update.

    There's a new version of Iray with major changes in the current betas, so my guess is that it's a "backup your general release now if you don't want those changes" announcement.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,437

    AllenArt said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    AllenArt said:

    So, I'm confused. Is this just a normal, next version of DS 4.x or the last version of DS4 before DS5? If not, why making the announcement? I don't recall you guys ever doing that before for just a normal update.

    It does have some significant changes.

    That still doesn't answer my question tho ;). It can be answered with yes or no...it's just a normal update or it's the last version before DS5. I'm still just as confused as I was. LOL 

    Well, I suppose we will find that out when we see the version number of the next release.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,822

    marble said:

    Leana said:

    marble said:

    Can we just clarify ... is this a release candidate for DS5 or just the latest DS4 version?

    "the latest public build of Daz Studio (4.16.1.40)"

    If you are going to quote, then at least quote the context: "Daz Studio (4.16.1.40) is a release candidate for the next version of Daz Studio". To me that says that this is not the actual next version but a candidate. Maybe you read it differently or we understand the term "release candidate" differently but if it is the actual next version, then why call it a release candidate?

    A release candidate is a version the developpers think is ready enough to make into a general release but is released as a beta for a last round of tests. Sometimes there are multiple release candidates before the general release because bugs were discovered during the RC tests.

    Anyway, a beta for DS5 would not be distributed as a version 4.x. The code base is completely different.

  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 817

    I'll be a little less coy with the next version number of Daz Studio, it's going to be another release in the 4.x series of releases. Not a 5.x.

     

    The Studio 5 project is still ongoing but as tasks were completed we discovered more and more tasks that needed to be done, so instead of ghosting you all with no releases for a year or two we are continuing to work on Studio 5 while also working on adding more into Studio 4.

     

    As far as what features are in this release, well, it's all in the changelog. If you want a better and more understanable version you can wait for the marketing team to write something up that looks nice and probably with some cool screenshots when it actually releases. I'm not going to try and steal their thunder here.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited February 2022

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    I'll be a little less coy with the next version number of Daz Studio, it's going to be another release in the 4.x series of releases. Not a 5.x.

     

     

    Well, thank you! Now it is clear. All this terminology around candidates and versions and releases ... all very confusing but now you have put it in plain language.

    A bit of a sad tale regarding DS5 though ... years? Surely not? I'm getting very old.

    Post edited by marble on
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,172

    marble said:

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    I'll be a little less coy with the next version number of Daz Studio, it's going to be another release in the 4.x series of releases. Not a 5.x.

     

     

    Well, thank you! Now it is clear. All this terminology around candidates and versions and releases ... all very confusing but now you have put it in plain language.

    A bit of a sad tale regarding DS5 though ... years? Surely not? I'm getting very old.

    I'm not getting any younger either ;)

     

  • miladyderyni_173d399f47miladyderyni_173d399f47 Posts: 1,871

    Richard Haseltine said:

    miladyderyni_173d399f47 said:

    So how likely is this version to work on my system? I am using 4.11 or 4.12 since my laptop is older and from what I've read, the later versions need a lot more than mine has.* (Or is the current release likely to function well and I didn't realize?)

    Specs: 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor; Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6500U CPU @ 2.50GHz   2.59 GHz; 12GB RAM; NVIDIA GEFORCE 940M. So says the sticker and Settings/System/About

     

    *And nope upgrading is not an option for me right now, For Reasons. Not unless the chip supply issues magically disappear &/or the price of new high-end computer drops to $200

    Assuming that is the General Release you could always try out the Public Build - just make sure you download only the files with the Public Build tag.

    Thanks Richard, I'll do that. 

  • KrzysztofaKrzysztofa Posts: 226

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    yes, they do need a new web developer cheeky

    hope they find someone  for their job listing 

    I'd apply, but I don't know if I could endure the wrath of the forum users! wink

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,534

    Krzysztofa said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    yes, they do need a new web developer cheeky

    hope they find someone  for their job listing 

    I'd apply, but I don't know if I could endure the wrath of the forum users! wink

    most of my forum wrath is directed elsewhere, the developers of the backend are not losing my pists wink

    but only if I can actually post and not get the Cloudflare working and basically DAZ isn't page devil

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,777

    Catherine3678ab said:

    barbult said:

    How do we add a ghost light to our scene now? DAZ_Rawb said ghost lights are supported now, so I hoped to see them in "Create New Ghost Light" or something.

    Right now, those ghost lights are mesh with emissions on and set to visibility of about 0.0001.

    No, that is the "old" ghost light that doesn't work in 4 16.1.X. I'm asking about the "new" ghost light "supported" implementation for 4 16.1.40.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,213
    edited February 2022

    Richard Haseltine said:

    kyoto kid said:

    ..will it have an updated version of Iray that fixes the top coat skin and hair issue?

    since the changes were fixing incorrect behaviour, as with the ghost light issue, it seems unlikely that nVidia will roll them back.

    ...it was interesting that in the version of Iray before the ghost lights stopped working, the top coat issue also didn't occur.

    This is serious, as it affects pretty much most character skins and hair. that use top coat settings. Those settings were part of the content for a reason and it is particularly a pain for those who use Skin Builder, other skin creation resources as well a hair colour/texture resources such as those by Slosh and others. 

    I am not the only one who has run into this.

    This situation needs to be taken up with Nvidia and a fix offered as right now it breaks something very basic that should not be broken.

    For now it means having to stay behind with an older verion of the programme to avoid dealing with this in every scene...

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 2,654

    For the sake of clarity, what has changed about Top Coat? (A lot of my custom skins have it off, or otherwise use unusual settings, so I've not immediately noticed a change.

    I will say that the ghost light change is a bit annoying, as the new implementation (or at least what I understand that to be) has the issue that it's binary, and you now can't make a light partially opaque to stop it getting so overexposed without also interfering with the light output.

  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 8,388

    barbult said:

    Catherine3678ab said:

    barbult said:

    How do we add a ghost light to our scene now? DAZ_Rawb said ghost lights are supported now, so I hoped to see them in "Create New Ghost Light" or something.

    Right now, those ghost lights are mesh with emissions on and set to visibility of about 0.0001.

    No, that is the "old" ghost light that doesn't work in 4 16.1.X. I'm asking about the "new" ghost light "supported" implementation for 4 16.1.40.

     Right. I misunderstood your query. I have read posts where obviously people do not know what any form of ghost lighting is.

    A "create new ghost light" feature would be great I agree. {along with with a manual for the whole program while we're at it}.

  • jag11jag11 Posts: 885

    barbult said:

    Catherine3678ab said:

    barbult said:

    How do we add a ghost light to our scene now? DAZ_Rawb said ghost lights are supported now, so I hoped to see them in "Create New Ghost Light" or something.

    Right now, those ghost lights are mesh with emissions on and set to visibility of about 0.0001.

    No, that is the "old" ghost light that doesn't work in 4 16.1.X. I'm asking about the "new" ghost light "supported" implementation for 4 16.1.40.

    Same scene rendered with version 4.16.0.3 (left) adn 4.16.1.40(right). sad

    Green ghost light completely dissapears.

    lights 4 16 0 3.png
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    lights 4 16 1 40.png
    1067 x 600 - 277K
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,213
    edited February 2022

    Matt_Castle said:

    For the sake of clarity, what has changed about Top Coat? (A lot of my custom skins have it off, or otherwise use unusual settings, so I've not immediately noticed a change.

    I will say that the ghost light change is a bit annoying, as the new implementation (or at least what I understand that to be) has the issue that it's binary, and you now can't make a light partially opaque to stop it getting so overexposed without also interfering with the light output.

    ...with some skin and hair that uses it at a certain setting, the tones com out very dark;

    Attahcment 1:  Daz 4.15  

    Attahcment 2:  Daz 4.16

     

    Tracey 4-15 test.jpg
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    Tracey 4-16 test.jpg
    933 x 1200 - 226K
    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019

    I've found that one of the reasons the dark skin shows up is when you tinker around with the spectral settings in the Render Settings.

    For the Ghost Lights, regular Ghost Lights no longer work; you have to increase the cutout opacity to a minimum of 0.1 to get any usable light out of them, but then you'll see the ghost light as a grey-ish thing. I'm soooo excited.

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,752

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    As far as what features are in this release, well, it's all in the changelog. If you want a better and more understanable version you can wait for the marketing team to write something up that looks nice and probably with some cool screenshots when it actually releases. I'm not going to try and steal their thunder here.

    You mean this change log? Uhm... yeah... lots of vital information in it... laugh

    And leaving the passing on of vital information to a MARKETING TEAM????? Those people are there to hype stuff up and make barker style proclamations, to sell stuff - not to transfer vital information to the customers... frown

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,213
    edited February 2022

    ...as I understand it had to do with the top coat thin film channel  The skins I create in Skin Builder tend to have a Thin Film value of 2.00 which is normal and never presented an issue in 4.14.0.30 or before..  I rarely if ever use Spectral Rendering nor no mess around with any spectral settings in the render settings tab. 

    I looked at the Beta Highlights thread and when I did that comparison I it was in 4.16.1.8 which used Nvidia Iray version 344800.8726.  The quick and dirty fix was setting Thin Film to 0 but that slightly altered the appearance. The other fix involved installing an additional set of MDL materials however the instructions sounded a bit convoluted.

    The current public release uses version 349500.7063 in which the changelog mentions improvements were made to the thin film relating to fresnel effect.  I installed 4.16.1.40 and ran some render tests without changing anything and apparently that improvement corrected the issue I encountered in 4.16..1.8 of he dark skin and dark hair.  .

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • khorneV2khorneV2 Posts: 147
    edited February 2022

    BeeMKay said:

    I've found that one of the reasons the dark skin shows up is when you tinker around with the spectral settings in the Render Settings.

    For the Ghost Lights, regular Ghost Lights no longer work; you have to increase the cutout opacity to a minimum of 0.1 to get any usable light out of them, but then you'll see the ghost light as a grey-ish thing. I'm soooo excited.

     

    surpriseangry.......Still, i cannot figure why those emissive/invisible tricks do not work anylonger. Is there a problem with emissive surfaces ?

    Post edited by khorneV2 on
  • khorneV2khorneV2 Posts: 147

    okay i read the answer sorry for the post, it was an iray bug (a usefull onecrying). I hope an easy conversion trick will be available.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,394
    edited February 2022

    BeeMKay said:

    I've found that one of the reasons the dark skin shows up is when you tinker around with the spectral settings in the Render Settings.

    For the Ghost Lights, regular Ghost Lights no longer work; you have to increase the cutout opacity to a minimum of 0.1 to get any usable light out of them, but then you'll see the ghost light as a grey-ish thing. I'm soooo excited.

    When you say you get no light if the opacity is less than 0.1, does mean is stops emitting light at all with an opacity of 0.0999? This would be odd behaviour.

    I had read somewhere that nVidia had "fixed" the ghost lights bug by calculating the amount of light to be emitted as lumens x opacity. That would mean a ghost light with an opacity of 0.001 would emit 1000 times less light than it used to. However could this be overcome by simply increasing the lumens on the ghost light by a factor of 1000?, so that the light emitted was the same as the older iRay version. I don't have the new version installed, so I can not check this myself. 

    The problem with the new ghost light solution mentioned earlier in the thread is that the ghost light is still visible in reflections. This is good for things like skin, as it gives you the specularity that ghost lights lacked, however for something like a window, or a mirror, the ghost light will appear as a white square, which is not ideal. Thus, IMHO, the new solution has some drawbacks compared to older ghost lights.

    Post edited by Havos on
  • khorneV2khorneV2 Posts: 147

    Havos said:

    BeeMKay said:

    I've found that one of the reasons the dark skin shows up is when you tinker around with the spectral settings in the Render Settings.

    For the Ghost Lights, regular Ghost Lights no longer work; you have to increase the cutout opacity to a minimum of 0.1 to get any usable light out of them, but then you'll see the ghost light as a grey-ish thing. I'm soooo excited.

    When you say you get no light if the opacity is less than 0.1, does mean is stops emitting light at all with an opacity of 0.0999? This would be odd behaviour.

    I had read somewhere that nVidia had "fixed" the ghost lights bug by calculating the amount of light to be emitted as lumens x opacity. That would mean a ghost light with an opacity of 0.001 would emit 1000 times less light than it used to. However could this be overcome by simply increasing the lumens on the ghost light by a factor of 1000?, so that the light emitted was the same as the older iRay version. I don't have the new version installed, so I can not check this myself. 

    The problem with the new ghost light solution mentioned earlier in the thread is that the ghost light is still visible in reflections. This is good for things like skin, as it gives you the specularity that ghost lights lacked, however for something like a window, or a mirror, the ghost light will appear as a white square, which is not ideal. Thus, IMHO, the new solution has some drawbacks compared to older ghost lights.

    a factor will be a nice workaround. If this works crying

  • HaruchaiHaruchai Posts: 1,978
    edited February 2022

    khorneV2 said:

    Havos said:

    BeeMKay said:

    I've found that one of the reasons the dark skin shows up is when you tinker around with the spectral settings in the Render Settings.

    For the Ghost Lights, regular Ghost Lights no longer work; you have to increase the cutout opacity to a minimum of 0.1 to get any usable light out of them, but then you'll see the ghost light as a grey-ish thing. I'm soooo excited.

    When you say you get no light if the opacity is less than 0.1, does mean is stops emitting light at all with an opacity of 0.0999? This would be odd behaviour.

    I had read somewhere that nVidia had "fixed" the ghost lights bug by calculating the amount of light to be emitted as lumens x opacity. That would mean a ghost light with an opacity of 0.001 would emit 1000 times less light than it used to. However could this be overcome by simply increasing the lumens on the ghost light by a factor of 1000?, so that the light emitted was the same as the older iRay version. I don't have the new version installed, so I can not check this myself. 

    The problem with the new ghost light solution mentioned earlier in the thread is that the ghost light is still visible in reflections. This is good for things like skin, as it gives you the specularity that ghost lights lacked, however for something like a window, or a mirror, the ghost light will appear as a white square, which is not ideal. Thus, IMHO, the new solution has some drawbacks compared to older ghost lights.

    a factor will be a nice workaround. If this works crying

    Sickleyield posted recently that there is a way to make ghost lights in the new version of Iray (https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/7270236/#Comment_7270236). Her recent Invisilights product (SY Invisilights Iray | Daz 3D) is built using this method and will work in the new version of Iray. I'm guessing that is what is meant by 'supported' not that they are becoming native to Studio (though that would be nice).

    Other current ghost light products would need to be updated using this new methodology but there has been no update on those yet that I have seen in the forums. The issue being that there would then need to be 2 versions, one for people who remain on the current version of Studio and another for those that update to this and future versions. Not sure of the chances of that happening but we can only wait and see what happens on that front.

    Also waiting to see if the resourceful forumites can come up with a workaround :)

    Post edited by Haruchai on
  • riverman63riverman63 Posts: 58

    This explains why I spent hours adding ghost lighting to a scene yesterday and ended up suspecting that they weren't actually working.... I thought I was going mad. The colour tint still worked though... I had updated the Nvidia drivers just beforehand

  • Worlds_EdgeWorlds_Edge Posts: 2,152

    Krzysztofa said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    yes, they do need a new web developer cheeky

    hope they find someone  for their job listing 

    I'd apply, but I don't know if I could endure the wrath of the forum users! wink

    LOL! I suggest a psuedonym.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,973
    edited February 2022

    Havos said:

    BeeMKay said:

    I've found that one of the reasons the dark skin shows up is when you tinker around with the spectral settings in the Render Settings.

    For the Ghost Lights, regular Ghost Lights no longer work; you have to increase the cutout opacity to a minimum of 0.1 to get any usable light out of them, but then you'll see the ghost light as a grey-ish thing. I'm soooo excited.

    When you say you get no light if the opacity is less than 0.1, does mean is stops emitting light at all with an opacity of 0.0999? This would be odd behaviour.

    I had read somewhere that nVidia had "fixed" the ghost lights bug by calculating the amount of light to be emitted as lumens x opacity. That would mean a ghost light with an opacity of 0.001 would emit 1000 times less light than it used to. However could this be overcome by simply increasing the lumens on the ghost light by a factor of 1000?, so that the light emitted was the same as the older iRay version. I don't have the new version installed, so I can not check this myself. 

    The problem with the new ghost light solution mentioned earlier in the thread is that the ghost light is still visible in reflections. This is good for things like skin, as it gives you the specularity that ghost lights lacked, however for something like a window, or a mirror, the ghost light will appear as a white square, which is not ideal. Thus, IMHO, the new solution has some drawbacks compared to older ghost lights.

    Just did a test comparison between DS 4.16.0.3 and DS 4.16.1.40, using a section of an old scene.  Latest Studio driver 511.65, GTX 1070 card.

    It's correct that Luminance needs to be increased by a factor of 1000, but I don't see any difference when it comes to reflections in glass (I presume that will include mirrors?) and eye reflections.  The effect on Specularity also seem to be the same.  The only difference seems to be more fireflies with same render time (3 minutes for each render here), in DS 4.16.1.40. 

    Whether it makes any difference what NVidia card you use I can't tell though.  I'd presume that it doesn't matter that it's a render originally saved from an older version of DS, but again, I'm not sure. 

    I ran the two version of DS on the same PC, but separately (one running, the other shut down), to avoid any possible interference between them.

     

    DS-4.16.0.03_opacity-1.0_luminance-500.png
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    DS-4.16.0.3_opacity-0.0001_luminance-500.png
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    DS-4.16.1.40_opacity-1.0_luminance-500.png
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    DS-4.16.1.40_opacity-0.0001_luminance-5.000.000.png
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    emissive_plane.png
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    Post edited by Taoz on
  • N-RArtsN-RArts Posts: 1,522

    I know it's been asked before, but why can't we get the option to roll-back to a previous version? 

    My rendering machine is a pain at the best of times. 4.14 worked perfectly. 4.15 was okay. But 4.16 is just a complete pain in the a.... I just can't seem to achieve the same results in 4.16 (like those in 4.14). :( 

    I'm not looking forward to upgrading to 4.16.1

  • KrzysztofaKrzysztofa Posts: 226

    Worlds_Edge said:

    Krzysztofa said:

    I'd apply, but I don't know if I could endure the wrath of the forum users! wink

    LOL! I suggest a psuedonym.

    Judging by the forum up-time since friday, at least I'd get the weekends off angel

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