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The buckle you show is a perfect example of the work professionals put in - as well as being a great render.
Your train drawing is mind-blowing. I've done a lot of traditional art as a hobby before using 3d but this is a fantastic piece of work beyond any drawing of mine.
Now ... if you can get detailed views to work from let the train be your next project in Hexagon. Build it from blocks to begin with.
I put in a reply to your other thread but must disappear now.
Just wanted to "prove" that I do like to have some detail now and then; your results may vary.
I've always tried to take a page from well-known artists like Roger Tory Peterson and Paul Calle in the U.S.A. (Calle was an official NASA artist among other things) and Fenwick Lansdowne, Glen Loates and Basil Ede in other countries. Oh, and Tom Thompson the bold landscape painter who died around 1917.
I think it would be nice to do machinery "in great detail" and I'm fascinated by all the possibilities, but I see myself more as drawing and painting real people in the near future, while practicising on the Genesis figures because they don't complain or get tired and the light and surface controls in DAZ Studio are so great.
I think my immediate needs from Hexagon are mostly pipes and stick figures; I'd love to have a good mannikin for instance. I'd like to think I will be able to approach one of you more established people with a commission for a mannikin and/or a slightly different dog. (I have the Millenium dog and puppy and the lo-rez dogs; being able to manipulate the meshes on those would be great too.)
If I don't go with a digital dog and mannikin(s) then I will approach a guy near me named Gord Hoselton who has an aluminum foundry. The direction I'm headed in involves cast metal molds into which I can insert warm plasticene say, and then let the material cool and pull out two halves of a quick mannikin to use as a maquette or a larger maquette "scene". I've done a bit of aluminum casting and I hope it's strong and stable enough for my needs, eg. iron and steel would probably be a lot more expensive!
I do think there are interesting possibilities for existing brands, be they Lionel Trains or Hasbro's "G.I. Joe" action figure, to be translated into digital playsets if you will. Or even the "Silly Putty" brand and definitely Mattel's Barbie(R).
I bought EA's "The Sims 3.0" several years ago so that I could have a good look at the figures there. At that time though I had absolutely no idea how detailed Poser could be!
Also flight simulators and the game industry are just dying for more realistic props and accessories IMO.
For a long time I've been a fan of Tom Thompson and the Group of Seven. They captured an amazing wilderness area in their works.
There are YouTube videos of making a furnace for melting aluminium drinks cans using (in brief) a cement casing moulded round a bucket, a hair dryer and barbeque coals. It goes without saying that working with molten metal is appallingly dangerous and you will know that any moisture near molten metal is an explosive mix.
You might look at 3d printing of parts to assemble. Hexagon can create the necessary .stl files. I always thought that moulds themselves could be made with a 3d printer, cutting out a difficult stage. The modelling program would build the mould sections by slicing up a model and turning the bits into solid mould pieces.
A 3d printer could make a figure with ball joints - even in the torso.
The beauty of 3d for a 2d artist is that an item on-screen can be rotated, zoomed-in on, placed in any lighting set-up and generally studied.
With Blender or Carrara, to name only two programs, you can rig your own simplified figures and drape realistic cloth on them.
To add: Instead of plasticine, you can get small granules of plastic that melt in boiling water. Once melted, it is like a lump of chewing gum that could be pressed into a mould. It sets quite rapidly but can be softened over and over. Some car accessory shops sell them as do art stores or electronic parts stores.
This is amazing looking! I want to learn to 3D model for Daz but my problem is I can never decide on which 3D modeling program I want to use. I have Hexagon, Silo 2 and Blender. Hexagon is easier I hear - not as robust as Silo 2 or Blender and Blender is the only one in active development. I hate being indecisive - I want to learn - seeing stuff like this gives me that itch. Just need to decide on a program and find some basic tutorials. I'm not sure what I would like to make for Daz, I'm leaning toward clothes and props - havnt gotten that far yet lol.
Any advice from you guys?
When you say you want to model for Daz, do you mean the company, i.e. to sell through Daz, or for Daz Studio?
Hexagon is a dedicated modeller and relatively easy to learn to use and there are many free sources of learning, plus the community is very friendly and helpful. Blender is an all-purpose 3D app, which includes modelling, plus a whole lot more. The modelling part has many, many more tools and options than Hex. It is very technical and has a much steeper learning curve. There are countless free sources of learning. I find the community is inclined to be helpful, but very technical and rather abrupt at giving help - not at all chatty like us here.
So it all depends on how much you are prepared to put into it. If you are totally new to modelling, I'd suggest Hex for fast results. Then again, you will probably eventually end up using Blender, so may as well start there:)
I'm not in a position to say much, but it seems to me that the presence of so many narrated, "beginner" type Blender tutorials, on Youtube, has to be a plus. Hexagon allows you to click and drag in different primitives fairly easily, and most people can zoom in and rotate things and try various stretching and deformations... I think that anyone who has gotten this far ought to be able to make at least a bit of progress in Blender - it looks similar at least at the outset.
It will be interesting to see whether objects made or modified in Blender can be put back into Hex, and from there sent to DAZ Studio.
Not neccessary - whether made in Hex or Blender, or both, all would work in Studio, using the .obj format. One small advantage Hex has is the bridge. On the other hand, there is a direct connection between Studio and Blender using MCJ's Blendbot and TeleBlender. This allows Studio users to render using Blender Cycles, which is way better and faster than iRay.
Ok - I was planning a theme park sort of painting and as I was laying out the location of the castle and the dinosaur paddock and the crocodile-infested pond and stuff it occurred to me to D/L a little bridge. There are some nice ones out there for sure and it wasn't a biggie... however Hexagon crashes when I try to open this particular model which has something going on - shimmering polys along the sides of the bridge. See separate thread.
@ Lotharen: Thanks for your comment a good while back!
I hope you managed to settle on a program to use and on a project to get started. Near the beginning of this thread I mentioned the wise advice I took note of which is to make things out of simple blocky shapes. It took me all afternoon once when starting out just to make a small 'wooden' steam train with four wheels. But I learned to move things around the screen, view things from different directions and so on.
As for the military model, although I was so close to finishing it, too many other things took priority recently. I hope to get it done sooner or later and end this thread with a final model.
Oh No, I hear you cry - not this again!
Although I started this a loooong time ago, I never finished it because I kept meaning to add more detail.
At the start of this year I showed some new work in a Carrara modelling discussion but failed to update this one.
Yesterday, however I decided to have yet another go at completing this thing. I found good references for the engine and even the interior so I started to model those - quite futile really because they won't be seen I guess.
Now I'm starting to assemble all the bits and pieces to put the thing together once and for all.
The pictures as usual show lots of bits still floating about. I'm needing to re-scale and adjust them to get a good fit.
Some more images ...
A little more has been done to join up the workings of the front underside.
Lotharem, It's kinda simple... Pick one and concentrate on learning it's features/tools. I have all 3 but could never understand Hexagon which I got when getting Carrara 4 Pro from Eovia. From the vids I've watched Hexagon and Carrara are brothers except thier interfaces are different... after a few tries in Hex to add a cube, with no luck, I cranked up Carrara and found it worked similar but a lot better in some ways than Imagine 3D for the Amiga, which I learned on.
Even still... trying to learn on my own I struggled until finally asking questions like "How do I do this or that" in the forums... this stepped my game up quite a bit... then entering Challenges in which I model objects for a scene... that sped up learning a even more. Watching and repeating YouTube and DAZ pay tutorials helped a great deal also.
Just wanted to load Hexagon 2.5 but couldn't find it... so downloaded it again. Will have to make sure that it's not still installed?? somewhere... then will have to re-install.
Good to catch up with you again. Going to have to check out MCJ's site... been not rendering in DS at all. Snails crawl faster than iRay renders. :)
Very Kewl Tank Armoured Military Vehicle. How soon can I buy it?
Another few pieces are in their final positions. I'm finding that in assembling the different parts they need lots of tweaking and re-scaling. I'm not happy with the propshafts or the steering rack but in the end these will hardly ever be seen.
There are now so many parts that I've given up on naming many of them. None at all have UV maps so I cannot see this ever being textured - I think it would take the rest of my life at the rate I've been doing this!
Know what you mean by scaling... What I do to get around that is to load the part or parts needed to place the part... delete parts not needed and save as diff file... then model it to fit from the start... hide parts that get in the way... when done delete all but the new part and save the file again perhaps even a new name. I'm sure others have a better way.
Have you at least assigned a shader domain for each part? I've not tried yet but you should be able to UVmap by texture/shader domain.
Hi John, first of all thanks for your interest in this.
The model first shown in this thread was a surprise success for me because I hadn't done much at all before (two vehicles of dubious quality, some very simple clothes and a few other small bits and pieces).
Then I pushed my luck and my boundaries by working on the wheels and adding more details - mainly nuts and bolts. (It is amazing the difference such small parts can make in this kind of model).
I started to investigate the workings underneath and the engine because I hated the hollow shell with it having not even a floor.
Some web images of these vehicles gave me some clues but eventually I found some great references from sites where plastic kits of this model were being made, bit by bit.
So I kept making more individual parts without getting round to placing them. That was a big mistake and led me to save the project into different files. I will complete the underside I've been showing today, then will import the engine/gearbox file, then the bodyshell and exterior fittings file. Then it will be all one-piece and done I hope.
I read on this forum that each item should be UV mapped as it is created. Then duplicates won't need to be UV mapped individually. I have zillions of duplicate parts in this model but no UV maps - or shader domains. In reality, the model is mainly a drab olive green and could be coloured with procedural shaders in Carrara. But there would be no dirt or rust maps and so on.
So I'm only looking to complete this as a learning experience and to have a collection of re-useable parts for other possible projects.
I'm not a PA and can't imagine being able to sell it - copyright may well be an issue and it lacks the slick finish that professionals achieve. But I'm mulling over possible ways to put it to use and can maybe voice these ideas later for opinions.
I've yet to UVMap anything... permenatly... just played around with the various ways. Glad you mentioned UVMapping as each piece is created.
Regarding "no dirt or rust maps"... I have Baker by ingoni which can change the Procedurals to into Texture maps. Also all the products by DCG. Recently upgraded Filter Forge to latest version which will create seemless textures or not. If you don't have FF then check all it's cool features.
Is your vehicle an exact duplicate or very different in part. All you can do is ask those which hold copyright. I recently designed the DAZ Tri logo as shown in Carrara for an animation video project that many are involved in. Luckily Chohole noticed and suggested I ask DAZ first. I did and am not able to since it would suggest that the animation/video was from DAZ. Needless to say I'm going to model something else instead.I could simply reform it to look quite different... you might do something similar with your vehicle... a few simple/minor changes here and there and your's would be quite different looking with very little extra and easy work for you.
Hello again John!
Thanks once again for posting here and on the Carrara thread. I had no chance at the weekend to make any progress and wanted to have something more to show before replying. But I followed some of the links you posted in the Carrara modelling thread and found some great help in a couple I watched - so thanks from me for your work, it really is appreciated.
My model isn't an exact duplicate because the proportions aren't perfect and in many places I've created (hopefully) mechanical-looking bits that fall short of what should really be there but which may be OK for the casual viewer.
Even so I'm drawing very heavily on the work of others who have done all the research to create their own products - plastic model kits. The following is a more or less random link I found very quickly just a moment ago to show the kind of illustrations I had when I started this - my own were actually from a magazine I bought on a whim and obviously a different vehicle.
http://modelmilitary.com/2012/11/05/hobbyboss-135-m1117/
Model kit magazines are good for showing 'the anatomy' of all sorts of mechanical things and I will definitely use such resources for that and for private challenges such as this one. Looking at the vehicles on sale here at DAZ, it seems to me though that actual vehicles are mostly avoided by PAs.
Anyway, I'm eager to finish this - I keep saying...
Best regards.
Just to show a little progress, if it can be called that. I realised that I'd made a few mistakes in the chassis and have been changing it quite a bit. Also I enlarged the front prop shaft and have been making many attempts to adjust and align things. Poke-through happens with exhaust systems and body work as well as in clothes, alas!
These pictures were of the project brought into Carrara to see a smoother render.
Mind if I ask what version of
BlenderHexagon do you use? I installed Hexagon 2.5... adding a simple cube was rather easy... so I pressen on... pressing my luck I went expiermenting with other features... in less than 15 mins it crashed do to my fidgeting around with no good idea what I was doing.I somewhat agree that most are unlike actual vehicles... however quite a few cars for sale here at DAZ and other places are very like the originals, nearly exact duplicates,... what a modeler has to steer away from is including brand names and logos. Most of the older vehicle content was designed with major changes... but not all... the later 3D vehicles are nearly identical with only very minor changes that keep the originals appearance intact. IMO, PAs mostly avoid these because they are not enormous sellers... Sci-Fi vehicles on the other hand are bigger sellers. A military vehicle such as yours is close if not equal to Sci-Fi.
Keep up the great work... looking good!
Hi John,
I don't use Blender at all - I don't have the program and am only using Hexagon with some renders in Carrara. Hexagon can export projects as .car files for Carrara, which is nice for those who use both programs.
I know that you have been using Carrara to gain modelling skills and have made great progress in the time your thread has been running. So far be it for me to deflect you away from that. BUT, if you are dipping your toes into Hexagon modelling I would encourage you to give it a good try out.
I happened to make progress with Hexagon before I had much of a try with Carrara's Vertex Room and I found that I preferred Hexagon. Carrara's tools are very similar but I like Hexagon's overall appearance and layout very much.
Hexagon crashes for some people all the time apparently but I have modelled for hours many times without problems. I did have two crashes the other day, however - I twice tried to do something that must have been an illegal use of the Bridge tool - but I've learned to save after reaching each stage I'm happy with and I was able to tackle the bridge in another way.
Tonight I recorded five minutes or so of using Hexagon in real time to create one of the suspension parts in my model.
My technique may not be at all how others would have done this but it got the part made. There isn't any sound but you might see enough to be able to try out something similar just to have a play around.
I use Windows.
For moving around the screen use ALT and the mouse keys.
You can select multiple objects (or faces, edges and vertices) by holding down SHIFT.
Remember always to be aware of whether you are in Object, Face or Vertex selection mode before trying to select something. In my video I am going from one to another of these all the time.
You can loop edges or faces with the L key shortcut. You can first select multiple parallel edges before looping and you will have multiple loops.
I'm in the habit of hitting the Validate button regularly - many tools seem to need this for completion of the action and missing that out may cause some crashes, I guess.
https://youtu.be/u25YvS6yBRo
As always, I'm well aware that others here know much more than I do!
I meant to say Hexagon not Blender... edited my post to reflect my mistake. Thanks for all the instructions/tips. Watched the video yesterday... for some odd reason nearly fell asleep... not videos fault... had to get some sleep. Just watched again to get a good look at the final shot... as usuall, Nice Work.
Hi John,
Glad the video did some good! Never ignore the call of sleep! For a long time, I was unable to use Carrara for more than about an hour before I gave up on account of sleepiness.
My version of Hexagon is 2.5.1.79
A little more was done today:
1 Some attachments of the rear leaf-springs to the chassis. The attachment points are just penetrating the chassis without any bolts.
2 A couple of plates bolted to the underside. These need to be done properly if I could be bothered.
3 A new linkage rod just placed at the side until I see how it fits.
Hate to tell ya... leaf springs usually use a frt and rear shackle to connect to frame... the shackle lets the leaf spring move/expand when hitting a bump etc. I worked at a few Ford dealerships in parts over 36 years... sold plenty of shackles. Check the pic at link below... it shows a hanger at one end/shackle at other... there are better pics showing both.
https://image.slidesharecdn.com/mysuspensionsystem-140211204636-phpapp02/95/automobile-suspension-system-6-638.jpg?cb=1392152036
Oh... I asked in Modeling thread as to how close/far does a 3D model need to be... did you see TangoAlpha's reply?
You cruel, cruel man, John, showing me up before millions of people ... well three or four anyway!
I made the spring supports as best as I could discern from a small photograph and although I have been wondering how axles, struts and springs would be expected to move, I just made what could be feasible (or what I could get away with). In my own toolkits I don't have any eight-sided spanners or sockets but this model has five, six and eight-sided cylinders for bolts. Just what I could be bothered with at the time. In future I will plan such things better.
Anyway, I made a shackle of sorts for one end of the leaf-spring. The strut which will fit above should also have a swivel point but will never be seen. I needed to make the shackle fit inside the body space, so it is a little cramped - but in the end it is only a small detail.
The leaf spring should have about seven sections instead of three, I think, but I promise not to tell ...oops.
Well, I had some images to load but I get a message telling me I don't have permission to upload files. Hope it's a glitch. I'll try later because I'm heading out soon.
Glitch over.
I saw the reply in the Carrara thread - thanks for asking. My own thoughts are to let this one go as a training/learning exercise and to devise something original from the experience. The shackles issue is a good example of something learned. But I'm not a PA and I have just about everything to learn about shaders, lights and rendering in DAZ Studio which are absolutely critical for promotional images.
Here are the files:
Kewl shackles... couldn't resist mentioning them.
I'm glad you mentioned them, I'll know more for the future.
A few more bits done today: some linkage to the gearbox, some holes in the chassis at the rear, some bits and pieces just started around the middle, rear struts positioned and a kind of strengtheneing bar behind the radiator.
Probably I'll get nothing more done for a few days, but it depends on a couple of things.