promos are iray only now?
Mistara
Posts: 38,675
was checking out the new hair.
all the promos are iray only?
doesn't help me decide.
Post edited by frank0314 on
This discussion has been closed.
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2025 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
The ninth and last shots are not iRay, but I agree that there should be more using 3DL.
9th? thanks
iirc the last promo was the textureless one
big decision :lol: the new fire one, santa monica hair, or dryades hair
searching for mom's day coupies
with all those Iray promos, one would expect Iray material settings to be included, but I see no mention of that in the product description of the firefly hair.....
Iray is new and barley out yet. You can't expect people to make stuff for it when it's not even out of Beta yet.
And if you're not doing stuff for Iray why have most of the promos for you product rendered with it? Seems like bad advertising for what you're selling since the customers barely see what they'll actually get and might get false expectations from the promos...
Really? It gives the buyer an idea of what can be done with it.
As recently as the last build they had changes to the core shader system that would have caused the files to have to be redone anyway. I guess people could have delayed any products that had any shader related files for a couple of months but most people need to release more regularly than that in order to pay bills.
If Iray materials or custom settings were used in the promos and not included in the product, then yes, Leana is right. You should not be showing promos using Iray if the settings are not included or if the product's 3Delight settings do not give a very similar end result when rendered using Iray.
One of the reasons why I'm taking a very extended (if not permanent) break from 3D is because of the unpredictability of stuff like this. I've ranted for years about how MATs and MORs never look the same as they do in promo images and always need adjustments - and that was when we all used the same rendering engine. If DAZ is going to make us wait for its merchants to be fully prepared before providing Iray materials, they also need to wait until that time before rendering their products in Iray. It's like saying "look how good this product can look if you know how to shade it properly! - which we're not going to tell you how to do of course".
SnowS
IF being the key word. Your making assumptions and smearing someone with out anything remotely like proof.
You said yourself that there's nothing wrong with them using Iray renders as promo images to show off their new technology (so it's fair to assume that they are, especially since others have also said they're Iray renders) and I DID say "if". What's the problem, that I disagree with you?
No.. that is not the problem.. More like your finding another excuse to take a swing at a PA.
I was a PA and I've defended DAZ more than even they wanted me to. Don't you insult me by saying I pick on PAs.
The bottom line is that NO promo should show an product doing something or appearing in a way that it cannot out-of-the-box unless it's specifically labeled an 'artistic render'. If those Iray renders can be duplicated by applying the 3Delight shader to them, it's all fine. If they can't, they shouldn't be used.
If Iray materials or custom settings were used in the promos and not included in the product, then yes, Leana is right. You should not be showing promos using Iray if the settings are not included or if the product's 3Delight settings do not give a very similar end result when rendered using Iray.
One of the reasons why I'm taking a very extended (if not permanent) break from 3D is because of the unpredictability of stuff like this. I've ranted for years about how MATs and MORs never look the same as they do in promo images and always need adjustments - and that was when we all used the same rendering engine. If DAZ is going to make us wait for its merchants to be fully prepared before providing Iray materials, they also need to wait until that time before rendering their products in Iray. It's like saying "look how good this product can look if you know how to shade it properly! - which we're not going to tell you how to do of course".
SnowS
Snow, if you now anything from being a PA is that most times we don't have time to go back and redo promos and update products. That said, chances are if we are rendering with Iray.. and it is going to be the default rendering engine, once it goes live those shaders will be included. So this way you know they are coming rather than the work involved in redoing, resubmitting and re-approving promos. So we can demonstrate how the product looks in iray and bundle those shaders in once Iray is live.
Sure, the most common complaint I ever heard was about having to make promo pics (when you all weren't talking about food). :) I'm not saying those particular promos are misleading because there doesn't appear to be that huge of a difference between the Iray and 3Delight renders. My concern is simply seeing products that are shown using Iray shaders but the shaders themselves not being included in the product. I would still prefer that the Iray promos either not be posted right now, that the beta shaders were included, or that a note mentioned that Iray shaders will be added to the product later, but it's probably not that big of a deal in this case.
It will be a great thing if we really start getting two sets of materials in every product. Although that means more work for PAs, I think it will also be beneficial for sales. Many people are going to end up either switching to Iray or sticking with 3Delight, and if they see that either of their choices are supported, they'll obviously be more likely to buy.
And that's a valid concern, however if there's a choice between releasing a product now and have the shaders included later or waiting until Iray is live (and who knows when that will be) and releasing the entire product then, most PAs will opt to split the product as this is how they make their living and can't let their products sit in limbo for an undetermined amount of time. I know my next character has iray support, but it won't be included until iray is live as I don't want the whole product sitting in limbo for weeks or months.
as a customer, i need to see 3de promos to decide if i want to buy. and nows i need to know what the promos are rendered in. also need to see the back of it. :)
Hahaha, definitely! On the same token, there were a handful of Genesis hairstyles that didn't show the back so I had to look up the original V4 version to make a decision...
The promos generally has the watermark to let you know that information.
Oh absolutely. DAZ should just allow them to post a bold "Iray shaders for this product coming soon!" line on the product page so that customers know that it will be added. It could mean a sale where there might otherwise not be one; if I were looking for a skin texture for a photorealistic render and one said that Iray shaders were on the way, I'd definitely be more likely to purchase that one than one that didn't.
Ouch, I may have stirred a hornet's nest.....
Personally, I don't mind if there are some Iray promo's, but as mentioned, 4.8 is not yet out of beta. And I think 3delight will also still be used for a long time (as optimising shaders for Iray is not easy), so a more balanced number of 3delight and Iray promos'would have my preference.
Oh absolutely. DAZ should just allow them to post a bold "Iray shaders for this product coming soon!" line on the product page so that customers know that it will be added. It could mean a sale where there might otherwise not be one; if I were looking for a skin texture for a photorealistic render and one said that Iray shaders were on the way, I'd definitely be more likely to purchase that one than one that didn't.
I don't know about that. The thing about rendering is that generally you're going to adjust materials regardless of what render engine you use. I don't iray is going to change that.
It will just depend on how the promos look. If the iray promos look better than the 3delight, then the promos are going to be centered around that... and vice versa. Ultimately you will still need to adjust materials to suit your lighting set up.
The look like 3delight mats in an iray render to me, and they look nice :) I don't have this product but have been using iray render engine and I was surprised to find a lot of 3delight mats look just fine in iray. And I don't mean that you have to apply iray uber base to convert them, just leave them as 3delight mats.
There are a lot of people trying to make iray base mats now to move towards physically based realistic renders but it will take a while for most new products to come through DAZ store with iray mats. Remember the Firefly hair by goldtassel (if this is the one meant by the OP) may have been in the DAZ queue since before iray engine was even in beta, and promos done later with iray. It won't happen overnight but it will happen ... (sorry, had to say it lol )
They are making Iray promo renders.
I would like to see a mix of both render engines used for promos now and when 4.8 comes out of beta, I will still be using both and will not be buying things that don't have images showing both.
Yes things often need a bit of tweaking depending on lights etc but if PA's want my money then I want to see how their products perform in both engines, there are things that work well in both without much alteration but some that don't big time.
I love IRAY. I really like the renders that it produces.
It feels like you are all saying that I'm being deceptive with my product when I render with Iray rather than 3delight. This could not be further from the truth. In all my promos where I have used the iray render engine, I have used my characters and skins straight out of the box. Just like you! I'm not using any special iray shader. I'm not even applying the iray uber shader.
No way. I'm allowing iray to auto-convert my texture. Nothing more.
I'm using my straight up 3dl shader setup in every single picture. I don't like slight of hand and I don't do that. In fact, this is what daz asked me to do. Simply use my product as is.
So, when I read that you are concerned about what my textures really look like..... they look the same. I just did an upgrade on the render engine, that's all. This is what I am seeing other PAs doing as well. We allow daz iray to auto-convert our textures and we merrily render away. The same as all of you.
The problem is that only by asking here in the forums have we been given this information, as customers all we were seeing were nothing but Iray renders for some new products - unless we are informed we may well feel that these renders have had their mats tweaked for Iray and therefore do not know what they will look like in 3delight - remember 4.8 with Iray is still in beta many may not choose to use betas.
I like the Iray renderer but not having a Nvdia card it can make for long render times - but I still prefer 3Delight for most renders it suits my style better.
Before you take things personally please remember we are customers its our money we are parting with and as customer is it really too much to expect that we ask questions about promos and products better to make up our mind to buy or not.
I hope there will be a filter in DIM so those of us who are not as interested in IRAY can avoid massive product updates for IRAY materials in products we have already bought.... I don't have room on my C drive where DIM is pointed for the redownload of a major part of my DAZ purchased products.
I didn't take this personally.
I wanted to express that there are no different shaders that we are using in our promo pictures. We are using exactly the same shaders and textures that you will get in your zip file. The pictures are not a bait and switch. To me, they still represent an accurate look at the product.
The problem is that only by asking here in the forums have we been given this information, as customers all we were seeing were nothing but Iray renders for some new products - unless we are informed we may well feel that these renders have had their mats tweaked for Iray and therefore do not know what they will look like in 3delight - remember 4.8 with Iray is still in beta many may not choose to use betas.
I like the Iray renderer but not having a Nvdia card it can make for long render times - but I still prefer 3Delight for most renders it suits my style better.
Before you take things personally please remember we are customers its our money we are parting with and as customer is it really too much to expect that we ask questions about promos and products better to make up our mind to buy or not.
That's the same problem we had years ago when DAZ had the annoying habit to advertize DOs which didn't have DS materials at all with promos rendered in DS. Sure it gives you an idea of what kind of result you could achieve in DS with some work, but that's also rather misleading for the customer. Especially since many help requests posted in the forums along the years have shown that a good number of customers obviously don't read the product description and just look at the promos...
That's the same problem we had years ago when DAZ had the annoying habit to advertize DOs which didn't have DS materials at all with promos rendered in DS. Sure it gives you an idea of what kind of result you could achieve in DS with some work, but that's also rather misleading for the customer. Especially since many help requests posted in the forums along the years have shown that a good number of customers obviously don't read the product description and just look at the promos...
The big factor in this is the lighting. If you don't have the same lighting, you are going to adjust materials for your scene regardless. That hasn't changed. However, there will be some products that will have a mix of promos that use both, because Iray is the default renderer now and we as PAs have to be ready for that. That is the reality. We all use both renderers, but I doubt with all the effort to get Iray into DS, that it's going to take a back seat to 3Delight. No one's deceiving you; we all have to learn how to use it and incorporate it into our workflow. Once Iray goes live, then more shaders will be available when there aren't any changes to what Nvidia is providing. Once DS 4.8 goes live, I will be providing shaders for both, but until then you will see products rendered in both as an exercise in learning how to use the new engine and preparing products for it. We are learning iray at the same time as you are, but customers will have the expectation for us to know iray in and out, so this is how were learn it: by using it while we work on our products.