promos are iray only now?

Khory

But if the materials have been modified for the Iray promos

So your base assumption is that a PA would take time to do all the Iray settings for promos but not take the two seconds to save the settings and include them to add value to the product? Especially since Iray will be the default engine going forward? All that would be is a gross waste of time and potential earnings for that time.

McGyver

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Leana

Khory said:

But if the materials have been modified for the Iray promos

So your base assumption is that a PA would take time to do all the Iray settings for promos but not take the two seconds to save the settings and include them to add value to the product? Especially since Iray will be the default engine going forward? All that would be is a gross waste of time and potential earnings for that time. Well, considering the store history of advertizing items without DS mats with DS promos...

Besides, adjusting materials for a few promo pics to show off how the product may look in Iray (which I would put in the same category as including some "artistic renders" in the promos) is not the same amount of work as making optimized settings for all material options which might be included, creating the corresponding thumbnails, testing them, packaging them, and so on. I'm not a PA, but I think that would take a bit more than 2 seconds ;)

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to have promos rendered in both engines (emphasis on "both", see the questions which were raised on Callie's compatibility with 3Delight as she had only Iray promos...). I also have no problems with adjusting materials, I've been doing that for years (since the first public beta of DS) and will go on.

What I would like though is for vendors (DAZ included) to make it clearer what's "here's what you get with the default product" and what's "you could get that result with some / lots of extra work".
Vendors will do what they choose and what works best for them, of course.

Khory

Well, considering the store history of advertizing items without DS mats with DS promos

I think you need to be really clear who your talking about.. The store is made up of over 300 individual PA's plus the DAZ products (which are mostly PA made but not promoted). Your using a really wide brush right now that covers all those people. Did all those PA's do that or was it mostly DAZ who has promotional images done by a third party who is paid to do art and not products?

Besides, adjusting materials for a few promo pics to show off how the product may look in Iray (which I would put in the same category as including some “artistic renders” in the promos) is not the same amount of work as making optimized settings for all material options which might be included, creating the corresponding thumbnails, testing them, packaging them, and so on. I’m not a PA, but I think that would take a bit more than 2 seconds wink

I am and it would not take more than two seconds to hit that save button. Adding them in takes maybe a couple of more seconds. The work is the settings make no mistake and if your going to do the work you might as well get the income from it yes? Perhaps your unaware that PA's often make changes to product settings when they do the promos (and change the product to match) because promos are for the PA the very last testing phase on a product. Rather than ignore what will be a major selling point in next to no time and something that will be expected for products to be current very shortly it is only logical to include those settings. Remember that your assertion is that PA's are going to do Iray settings for 3dl products so they can do the promos but not include them in the product if they had to do them. That would just be stupid since the settings are the time consuming part and not having them as part of the product would just be throwing money away.

Make no mistake a product that does not have Iray settings may be a no sell for any new users who start with Iray as the standard and for many of us it is already a pain that products don't have iray settings. Iray renders are absolutly NOT artistic renders they are the expected render for the products going forward just as Iray settings will be expected for most products in the future.. Artistic renders may or may not be post worked (I never post work my stuff)

Right now it is more than acceptable to show proof that a 3dl based product looks good in Iray as it stands. That means that it is usable in both programs rather than just the old 3dl engine. I'm not sure why everyone assumes that settings for one program will be dire in the other because that simply has not been the case. Many things work fine without even a shift to the iray shader. By far the bigger issue is old textures that looked fine in 3DL but do not stand up in Iray.

What I would like though is for vendors (DAZ included) to make it clearer what’s “here’s what you get with the default product”

They do.. it is called "what's included and features". I'm not sure how they plan to distinguish the Iray materials from 3DL materials but I am sure that they will be listed just like there are sometimes additional poser file types listed. Currently nothing has that because until they felt that the shader stuff was solid nothing could be submitted for Iray so there are no products in the store for it yet.

ZamuelNow

I think both sides are getting worked up when neither actually means any ill will towards the other.

It's unfortunate but some vendors do a really poor job with their detail descriptions and What's Included. It's the "few bad apples" problem. However, I think the valid thing being misunderstood is that the promos are being seen as misleading without them being intended to. With Iray not actually being out yet it feels a little off to do promos in it. What this leads to with the promos as is, is that it looks like they don't work in 3Delight at all. I had to come to the forums to find that out and had actually completely written a few products off because of that. That's why many people are requesting at least one promo image in 3Delight. Separately, sticking a line in Details stating "Materials created in 3Delight yet optimized for Iray standards!". There's probably a more advertisement worthy version of that but something like that helps.

GallCommTV

Male-M3dia said:

Iray is the default renderer now and we as PAs have to be ready for that. That is the reality. .

Been watching all these threads on the 'new' iray thingy with great interest, and wondering if it would affect all my previous purchases (a not unconsiderable sum) in the future. Particularly regarding the decision (if we will have one) between carrying on with the trusty ol' renderer we've become used to using, or to 'upgrade' (with the not-so-obvious added costs) to the 'latest great thing'!

To me, it seems very little in the way of real 'factual' information has as yet been given in this regard, except this little quote,

Interesting, though hardly re-assuring,...

Vinny

Mistara

i'm not ready to start buying for iray products. guess i'll just have to wait for those back catalog sales :)

Male-M3dia

GallComm said:

Male-M3dia said:

Iray is the default renderer now and we as PAs have to be ready for that. That is the reality. .

Been watching all these threads on the 'new' iray thingy with great interest, and wondering if it would affect all my previous purchases (a not unconsiderable sum) in the future. Particularly regarding the decision (if we will have one) between carrying on with the trusty ol' renderer we've become used to using, or to 'upgrade' (with the not-so-obvious added costs) to the 'latest great thing'!

To me, it seems very little in the way of real 'factual' information has as yet been given in this regard, except this little quote,

Interesting, though hardly re-assuring,...

Vinny

When 4.8 goes live it will be the default renderer. That is a fact. When you load DS 4.8, that's what is set to render. 3delight will still available as well to use. It isn't going anywhere. As far as your old purchases, you can render them in any engine, but you may have to adjust materials for engines other than the materials were made for... like you have always done. If a product only had poser shaders, then you would have to make shaders to work in DS. And in DS you had the default, HSS, AOA and now iray. You have lots of choices to work with. That said there will be some things that won't work in Iray and some that won't work with 3delight. You will use what will work for your work, however; as always, not every PA will provide products in the format you want.

Given a little time, it's not going to be a big a deal as some may make it.

Khory

Been watching all these threads on the ‘new’ iray thingy with great interest, and wondering if it would affect all my previous purchases (a not unconsiderable sum) in the future. Particularly regarding the decision (if we will have one) between carrying on with the trusty ol’ renderer we’ve become used to using, or to ‘upgrade’ (with the not-so-obvious added costs) to the ‘latest great thing’!

DAZ has done a pretty amazing job with the Uber Iray shader to be honest. The vast majority of regular products convert pretty perfectly depending on how they were initially set up. Are there occasional issues? Sure. Some PA's did transmaps where the transparency is not full black and that can cause an issue. There are a few different conventions for skin with Iray. But I have a base material I set up and I use it to convert characters now. The additional tweaks may take 5 minutes if the skin is very pale or very dark but that is about it. I've been doing Iray renders since the day they released it and there have been plenty of things that took no adjustment from 3dl settings. Glass and so forth I have been using the included shaders so that is a breeze. The main problem I have had was textures that are just not up to snuff for Iray and those were all older products. Overall converting older products to Iray has been much easier than when I started converting products for AoA and the ubershader and I am sure that is due to the ground work that the DAZ team put into setting this up to mesh so well.

To me, it seems very little in the way of real ‘factual’ information has as yet been given in this regard, except this little quote,

That and it already loads as default in the beta and information in the beta thread saying it was the new default render engine for DAZ studio.

mjc1016

Male-M3dia said:

When 4.8 goes live it will be the default renderer. That is a fact. When you load DS 4.8, that's what is set to render. 3delight will still available as well to use. It isn't going anywhere.

Ummm...since when?

I thought, early on in the Beta threads, that we were told that 3DL was still the default?

Where is the actual announcement of this change?

And if it is true, then why are a couple of PAs the ones making the announcement and not the devs, in an official capacity?

Male-M3dia

mjc1016 said:

Male-M3dia said:

When 4.8 goes live it will be the default renderer. That is a fact. When you load DS 4.8, that's what is set to render. 3delight will still available as well to use. It isn't going anywhere.

Ummm...since when?

I thought, early on in the Beta threads, that we were told that 3DL was still the default?

Where is the actual announcement of this change?

And if it is true, then why are a couple of PAs the ones making the announcement and not the devs, in an official capacity?

Nope 3delight is not the default. Load up 4.8 and check the rendering settings..(shown below) What is the default? Iray. The beta is called "Iradium" for Iray. You don't do all that if 3delight is the main renderer. That's not to say that all of a sudden there won't be any products that will usable in 3delight; but making iray the default makes it's adoption more certain in products to be sold.

Oso3D

I'm looking forward to lots of sales on older content when 4.8 goes to release.

Because, heck, good shaders can make even 10+ year old content cool and spiffy.

Lyoness

timmins.william said:

Because, heck, good shaders can make even 10+ year old content cool and spiffy.

Isn't THAT the truth?!!!!

Leana

Khory said:

Well, considering the store history of advertizing items without DS mats with DS promosI think you need to be really clear who your talking about.. The store is made up of over 300 individual PA's plus the DAZ products (which are mostly PA made but not promoted). Your using a really wide brush right now that covers all those people. Did all those PA's do that or was it mostly DAZ who has promotional images done by a third party who is paid to do art and not products?
OK, so apparently you've decided I'm out to get at PAs, so first calm down and realize that it's NOT the case. :roll

What I'm saying is that there were instances in the past were products have been advertized with promo pics using settings which were not included (and yes, by DAZ and other artists). I'm not saying all vendors have done that, or that it's the norm, just that it happened, so I wouldn't be surprised if I happened again one day for one or multiple products, by DAZ or some other vendors.

Besides, adjusting materials for a few promo pics to show off how the product may look in Iray (which I would put in the same category as including some “artistic renders” in the promos) is not the same amount of work as making optimized settings for all material options which might be included, creating the corresponding thumbnails, testing them, packaging them, and so on. I’m not a PA, but I think that would take a bit more than 2 seconds wink

I am and it would not take more than two seconds to hit that save button. Adding them in takes maybe a couple of more seconds. The work is the settings make no mistake and if your going to do the work you might as well get the income from it yes?The work is in the settings, yes. I never said it was the saving part that took time. I said there was a difference in the work needed to get one picture look good vs provide an optimized version of all materials included.
If a vendor has gone through the work of creating all those setting then of course they'd want to them to include them in the product, not doing it wouldn't make any sense.
But I can also imagine a vendor providing an example of the result you could get with Iray in a promo render (hence my comparison to "artistic render") but not including all the materials in the product. Kinda like one particular vendor at Rendo who doesn't provide DS MATs usually includes one promo saying "here's what it looks in DS by default, but if you adjust the settings manually you can get that".
See what I mean?

WendyLuvsCatz

I don't think all PA's do their promo renders but to whoever does
customers expect a product to look like what they see in a promo when they render it 99% of the time
so at least some promo images should reflect that, they can iray-diate, Octane-ate or photoshop the crap out of, the rest and say so if they want but a single 3Delight render should also be included.

frank0314

We are locking the thread as we believe all points of view have been thoroughly expressed.