Modelling/Sculpting Morphs - Plain and Simple please?
marble
Posts: 7,500
I've been using DAZ Studio for many years but I have mostly relied on vendors to provide scripts for morphing, etc. However, I am aware that a lot can be done in external software but I'm a complete novice at where to start.
I have Blender. I used to have access to ZBrush (when I worked for a software company - I'm retired now). And, being retired, I see that 3DCoat is available for Seniors at $99 for non-commercial use. I often see product descriptions saying things like "morphs created in ZBrush" which suggests that they are not possible to achieve just using the dials. Also, conforming clothing often doesn't drape very well and I'd like to be able to play with the mesh and see if I can make my own morphs.
However, I don't understand the terminology - most of the tutorials on these things assume there is a basic knowledge of what the difference is between Subdivision, HD, Polygons, Voxels, Displacement, etc. All I know is that if you start adding vertices you break the model - so how do the vendors do it?
I suspect they somehow change G2F into a plain OBJ with no rigging, etc., work on her in a modeller, and then re-rig afterwards. Is that a fair assumption? If so, does that lose all the weight-mapping, etc? If they stay with the original vertex count how do they add HD details? Or create geo-grafts?
Also, what is the difference between modelling and sculpting? Blender has both, I think that ZBrush brushes are sculpting tools but then when I look at 3DCoat I'm totally confused when they talk about voxels.
Any pointers to really basic tutorials would be a great start for me.
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Crudely, modelling is building new mesh and sculpting is pushing existing mesh around. Or modelling is manipulating, adding, and removing polygons directly while sculpting is manipulating the overall sahpe without having to pay attention to the polygons. But it's not an entirely clear-cut division, there are things that could count either way.
As for the terms - you have the base mesh, which in DAZ Studio can be sub-divided - split into more polygons and smoothed - at render time. HD morphs can adjust the placement of the SubD mesh, but we don't have the tools to do that - we are limited to manipulating the base mesh when it comes to making morphs and for the most part should not use the equivalent tools in a modeller or sculpting application to divide the mesh down (we can use the fine detail as displacement - a map showing how much the surface is to be raised or lowered to add more detail when rendered - mixed with morphs, but initially it's probably best not to try to do that). Voxels are a feature of 3D Coat - you can't use them when making morphs as it is absolutely critical that the number and order of the points that define the mesh remain unchanged in morph creation.
Thanks Richard.
That clarifies things a little but it does suggest that vendors have access to more tools/information than users - which is fine. I'm not complaining. I just wonder what the limits are for user created morphs. It still seems to me that vendors can "play with the polygons" - make geo-grafts, etc.
When you talk of the base mesh and the SubD mesh - are these like separate layers?The SubD layered over the base?
So, it seems that 3DCoat would not be a good investment, even at the reduced price of $99. I've looked at others, like Sculptris but that one seems a little limited - I couldn't work out how to import a figure with fitted clothing as can be done in ZBrush. That seems essential to know when you are colliding with the underlying mesh. Then there's Blacksmith3D but that seems somewhat over-priced when compared to the feature set of 3DCoat at around the same price.
A little more information about how to create that fine detail with displacement maps would be very handy though.
The only thing PAs have access to that you don't is the plug-in fro loading HD morphs. GeoGrafts are, at least initially, modelling - you need to start with the ring of vertices around the area you wish to replace, then build the graft out from that (though once the basic mesh is built it can be sculpted.
Base mesh, also known as the cage mesh for things that are made to use SubD, is the actual model. SubD is applied to that to generate a new, smoother, mesh on the flay. The rigging is doen on the base mesh, as are GeoGrafts and non-HD morphs. You get the base mesh on a SubD figure in DS by setting the resolution to base (in the Mesh Resolution group in Parameters).
3D Coat can be used for morphing - it has several modes, you want to avoid the voxel mode/room. It's also easier to export displacement maps from 3D Coat than from ZBrush, especially fro the DAZ figures and anything else that uses more than one set of maps. I think I've used it, I know others have. 3D Coat can also be used for texturing, and in that respect is probably better than ZBrush. As a tool for doing almost everything 3D Coat is probably a good choice, especially at that price.
Thanks again Richard.
I think I understand the Base/SubD thing now.
You have rekindled my interest in 3DCoat but I have struggled to find any descriptions of how to send between the DS and 3DCoat. I hope some of those who use it can chime in here. As you say, the texture/displacement painting is probably a valuable tool in itself.
There's no equivalent of GoZ, so you'd have to use OBJ. 3D Coat does have a link system, though, so it's possible someone will create a plug-in to do the job.
I have 3D Coat and Zbrush, but I still prefer Blender for most of my morphing. I've never actually used 3D Coat's voxel sculpting (yet).
3D Coat reduced license will NOT produce a morphable anything. Everytime the .obj is exported it degrades it a bit ... not normally anything noticeable esp. if Hexagon made it but still, changes the .obj file so it cannot be used for morphing. I asked about this in the forums when I had the money to buy the full edition if need be but did not get a reply ... so moved on. I have no idea except that one of the above posters appears to be able to use the full edition for morphing.
Edit in re-reading the posts, not sure there... maybe somebody who has the full commercial license could give it a whirl and see if it is possible.
Do you use the Blender sculpt tools for your morphs or the modelling tools? I missed having ZBrush available then but I discovered that Blender does have some nice sculpting tools. A Blender equivalent to GoZ would be really nice though because the figure and the clothing have to be exported individually which is a bit of a pain.
Do you use the Blender sculpt tools for your morphs or the modelling tools? I missed having ZBrush available then but I discovered that Blender does have some nice sculpting tools. A Blender equivalent to GoZ would be really nice though because the figure and the clothing have to be exported individually which is a bit of a pain.
I, too, like Sickleyield use Blender...and yes, I do use the sculpt tools...
Here's a shot of one thing I'm working on...
I alternate, actually. For morphing at base rez the proportional edit is often better.
Is it possible to use Blender to paint textures - like 3DCoat and Blacksmith3D? If so, is it a complex procedure? The only thing I have managed to work with so far in Blender is the sculpting menu. I have no idea how to model or render or apply textures. Navigating and configuring the interface is also a mystery.
Yes...you can paint in Blender...but...the paint tools are very basic, at this time and are not the best at doing it.
I did a tutorial for it at one point, actually: http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-Seamless-Texture-Painting-In-Blender-439338827
Yes, but that still doesn't deny the fact that at the present, it's more like Paintbrush than Photoshop...I do have to say though, it is one of the scheduled improvements...and if they make the same strides in improving it, as they have done with the sculpting over the past couple of years, it will shortly be 'there'.
Is there a Studio equivalent to the morph brush in Poser? That was pretty good for basic on-the-fly morphs and I was just getting the hang of it before I stopped 3D work some years ago.
Yes, but that still doesn't deny the fact that at the present, it's more like Paintbrush than Photoshop...I do have to say though, it is one of the scheduled improvements...and if they make the same strides in improving it, as they have done with the sculpting over the past couple of years, it will shortly be 'there'.
Oh yes, I wasn't arguing with that point. I'm just saying it's technically possible to get some kind of result out of it if you have good custom brushes. I used it for one of the skins on my Dragon 3 project and DAZ did accept that, although I'm certainly not calling it RawArt-quality work (the other two were done in 3d Coat IIRC).
About the only in-built morphing tools are deformers, but they aren't similar to the morph brush...
About the only in-built morphing tools are deformers, but they aren't similar to the morph brush...
Another option might be a push modifier with a weight map, though that goes in and out only.
Seems bizarre DAZ having access to some really clever 3D modelling technology, and people are talking about Zbrush and Blender, etc, for making morphs for the figures in a figure based 3D program.
A real time "bridge" to a dedicated room / module in Carrara that is specifically designed to allow polygon manipulation without mesh damage seems within DAZ's power.
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Yes, but then it wouldn't really be Studio, any longer...it would be Carrara or Carrara 'Lite'...
Zbrush is an industry standard. Blender is free.
I'm quite happy for DAZ to strip technology out of Carrara or Hexagon and put it in Studio, but DAZ don't seem happy to. Hence the bridge suggestion.
Zbrush is an industry standard. Blender is free.
It's not bizarre that people use those (or others); just that they need to.
There is a bridge to Hexagon. I have Hexagon too but it crashes far too often for it to be anything but a frustration. I seem to remember reading that the Mac version was never stable so I don't really attempt to use it these days. Nevertheless, it was near enough free when I picked it up in a sale so I haven't lost much.
Blender is also free and a bridge to that would be ideal for those of us with limited budgets. I could never afford to buy ZBrush or any of the other big name industry heavyweights. Looking at the Blender web site, it seems they acknowledge the fact that the interface scares people off and are looking to change that. Another free one is Sculptris and I know people here use that. Like Hexagon, the software seems to have been bought by another company (Pixologic, the ZBrush people) and shelved. I wrote an email to them and asked about development and they said that the original writer of the software had left the company but that they do intend to work on it in the future. It has a nice and simple interface but is also, as I mentioned above, very limited (unless there are tricks I never discovered).
The main thing for me is morphing or adjusting things that have already been modelled, rigged and textured by an artist, not to create something from scratch which is what most modelling applications are designed for. For example, I have a huge wardrobe of V4 clothing that, despite what people here claim, mostly does not convert to G2F. The mesh sometimes looks fine while the figure is in T-Pose but then it goes seriously wrong when posed. Also, out-of-the-box G2F clothing sometimes does not look good when we need to rely on auto-fit. While it will look perfect on an unmodified V6 it looks crumpled and messy on a non-standard G2F figure morphed by dials and morphing scripts such as those by Zev0.
Work flow for using a morph to fix clothing fits without a bridge:
Hide everything but the wearer, and any pieces of clothing you want to account for but not modifiy, and export as OBJ
Hide everything but a piece of clothing, make sure that the clothing is set to Base resolution in the Mesh Resolution and export as OBJ; if there are multiple pieces of clothing you want to morph repeat for the others.
Import as layers/objects into your editor.
Manipulate the mesh using sculpting or modelling tools, being careful to avoid any tool that would add or remove geometry.
Export each item that is to become a morph as OBJ.
In DS select a piece of clothing.
Go to Edit>Figure Morph Loader Pro
Click Choose Morph Files... and select the OBJ with the morphed shape for that item.
Click the triangle next to the morph name, then right-click on the No next to Reverse Deformations and set it to Yes.
Optionally change the label and Morph Group settings.
Click Accept.
And do not forget to export only pozing actor as template obj, to morph clothing easy^^;
without it, very difficult to adjust morph for current pozing shape.
if you use blender, and play with some morph,,
next,, you must serch tutorials about "shape key"
if you understand basic shape key usage,
it make you easy merge or mix many morphs only about your selected vertices,,
I really recommend you blender :roll: I have not planed to join this topic, but I can not stop to recommend blender ,,
it is really great 3d tool, for your purpose too.
no need to compare with other 3d tools , but you can do it most of what you need only with blender,,.
and I believe,, you will content your choice.,,.
(and you know,, SickleYield is here,,, (and in deviant art,,) for
user who hope to use blender for daz studio and figures,,)
(many many thank all tutorialls,,, (- /\ -) )
Aw, you're welcome! :)
Thanks - I had not heard of Shape Keys before. I've just watched a quick video demonstrating what they do but I'm not sure how it applies to static morphs. It looks to be used for keyframe animation - or am I still not understanding correctly?
Thanks - I had not heard of Shape Keys before. I've just watched a quick video demonstrating what they do but I'm not sure how it applies to static morphs. It looks to be used for keyframe animation - or am I still not understanding correctly?
When doing body morphs, I often use this workflow to see how morphs mix before export.
-Import base figure.
-Add shape key base.
-Add shape key for the head (called FHMMorphName).
-Add shape key for the body (called FBMBodyMorphName).
Sculpt each one so that I can ensure they blend properly at the neck area. Export separately by dialing one to 0 while the other is at 1.
This is also a way to have and organize a lot of morphs for a product in a single file.
Ok - I think I get that.
So you don't need to reload the base object every time - you can just zero the last key or you can create a morph from a combination of keys?