Western Express Train Bundle

Charlie Judge

The Western Express Train Bundle looks like an excellent product as far as it goes. However, it lacks some important elements, especially a baggage car and a caboose. Also rails, a station, and a cattle car would have been nice. 

Matt_Castle

To be honest, I have a huge heap of complaints about it, but I told myself I was going to bite my tongue unless someone came along to praise it.

Most of these complaints can be summed up with "Please use reference".

- It's very out of proportion, particularly in comparison to the coaches. The boiler is huge, the tender is too tall, etc.
- The 4-6-4 wheel arrangement was not used on a tender engine in the United States until 1927, way after the Old West era. The really classic old West locomotive is probably the 4-4-0 arrangement, although 4-6-0 did become increasingly common in the later years.
- Most of these older locomotives used internal valve gear, not the approximation we're getting here of (probably) Baker valve gear. On an extension of the issues with the linkages, they're not in line with the pistons, and for some reason the connecting rods are linked to the front bogie truck. (It also appears that the two cylinders of the locomotive are in phase rather than 90 degrees out of phase, which means that it would often be entirely unable to start itself. That however I will concede is nerdy technical knowledge that wouldn't be easily visible or spotted in most reference).
- Mostly, the style of the time was spoked wheels, not disk wheels.
- Etc.

All in all, I can categorically state that this is not accurate to any locomotive of the period (I'll excuse things like the generous width of the carriages, as that's arguably helpful to give more space to set up a scene).

And yes, I know some people will say "Yes, but maybe it's fantasy!", but something more accurate would have been useful to a wider audience.

And it's not like Polish products haven't used reference for other things where reference was an option:

- https://www.daz3d.com/military-weapons-bundle has clearly got things like a Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle, a Steyr AUG, etc.
- https://www.daz3d.com/upper-class-vehicle-bundle is certainly accurate to European luxury cars. The Roadster is clearly a Mercedes - even down to the ridges on the bonnet (or "hood" for Americans) - the "Car" has BMW's split grill...
- https://www.daz3d.com/military-aircraft-bundle-01 https://www.daz3d.com/military-aircraft-bundle-02 https://www.daz3d.com/military-helicopter-bundle ... all recognisable as actual military aircraft.

Now, even if we assume that there's been some change in policy that states they were getting too close to a likeness of actual products, it's not as if a locomotive design from the 1850s is still in any kind of copyright.

This is a vendor where I would actually expect use of solid, real-world reference, but it's just not here.

Sevrin

Rails might actually be an interesting addition to Ultrascenery.

maikdecker

Charlie Judge said:

The Western Express Train Bundle looks like an excellent product as far as it goes. However, it lacks some important elements, especially a baggage car and a caboose. Also rails, a station, and a cattle car would have been nice. 

Well, some of that (or at least close resemblances) can be gotten from the two Jacks. Jack Tomalin here at DAZ has the "Parkside" line of rail vehicles, which could be adapted. And over at Renderosity there's a PA called Dryjack, who's doing lots of train-related stuff for Poser, which usually works in DAZ, too, with little effort.

Bendinggrass

It all had me fooled into thinking it was accurate. Still, it is beautiful, and it will be fun to use when I can afford it. 

I would love to see modern diesel locos, and perhaps steam locos from the 20s, etc. 

lou_harper

Modular Railway Track Set is on sale. Of course it's probably wrong scale.

Cybersox

Matt_Castle said:

To be honest, I have a huge heap of complaints about it, but I told myself I was going to bite my tongue unless someone came along to praise it.

Most of these complaints can be summed up with "Please use reference".

- It's very out of proportion, particularly in comparison to the coaches. The boiler is huge, the tender is too tall, etc.
- The 4-6-4 wheel arrangement was not used on a tender engine in the United States until 1927, way after the Old West era. The really classic old West locomotive is probably the 4-4-0 arrangement, although 4-6-0 did become increasingly common in the later years.
- Most of these older locomotives used internal valve gear, not the approximation we're getting here of (probably) Baker valve gear. On an extension of the issues with the linkages, they're not in line with the pistons, and for some reason the connecting rods are linked to the front bogie truck. (It also appears that the two cylinders of the locomotive are in phase rather than 90 degrees out of phase, which means that it would often be entirely unable to start itself. That however I will concede is nerdy technical knowledge that wouldn't be easily visible or spotted in most reference).
- Mostly, the style of the time was spoked wheels, not disk wheels.
- Etc.

All in all, I can categorically state that this is not accurate to any locomotive of the period (I'll excuse things like the generous width of the carriages, as that's arguably helpful to give more space to set up a scene).

And yes, I know some people will say "Yes, but maybe it's fantasy!", but something more accurate would have been useful to a wider audience.

And it's not like Polish products haven't used reference for other things where reference was an option:

- https://www.daz3d.com/military-weapons-bundle has clearly got things like a Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle, a Steyr AUG, etc.
- https://www.daz3d.com/upper-class-vehicle-bundle is certainly accurate to European luxury cars. The Roadster is clearly a Mercedes - even down to the ridges on the bonnet (or "hood" for Americans) - the "Car" has BMW's split grill...
- https://www.daz3d.com/military-aircraft-bundle-01 https://www.daz3d.com/military-aircraft-bundle-02 https://www.daz3d.com/military-helicopter-bundle ... all recognisable as actual military aircraft.

Now, even if we assume that there's been some change in policy that states they were getting too close to a likeness of actual products, it's not as if a locomotive design from the 1850s is still in any kind of copyright.

This is a vendor where I would actually expect use of solid, real-world reference, but it's just not here.

My understanding is that DAZ DOES have a policy about not allowing items that are too close to real world products, hence the reason for the complete lack of recognizeable modern car models, and why even products as old as WW2 are seldom truly accurate.  That said, even if there isn't such a policy, I've long given up on expecting things that are actually realistic here given the  "jets" with propellers, sailing ships made of concrete, toilets without seats, etc., and let's not even get into the mad love love for "armor" with cutouts directly over the vital organs, and high-heels on everything no matter how impractical or historically inaccurate.  Fortunately, DAZ isn't the only game in town and there are vendors like Dryjack, 3D Classics and Vanishing Point over at Rendo who toe the line to history a bit more stridently.     

Richard Haseltine

Cybersox said:

Matt_Castle said:

To be honest, I have a huge heap of complaints about it, but I told myself I was going to bite my tongue unless someone came along to praise it.

Most of these complaints can be summed up with "Please use reference".

- It's very out of proportion, particularly in comparison to the coaches. The boiler is huge, the tender is too tall, etc.
- The 4-6-4 wheel arrangement was not used on a tender engine in the United States until 1927, way after the Old West era. The really classic old West locomotive is probably the 4-4-0 arrangement, although 4-6-0 did become increasingly common in the later years.
- Most of these older locomotives used internal valve gear, not the approximation we're getting here of (probably) Baker valve gear. On an extension of the issues with the linkages, they're not in line with the pistons, and for some reason the connecting rods are linked to the front bogie truck. (It also appears that the two cylinders of the locomotive are in phase rather than 90 degrees out of phase, which means that it would often be entirely unable to start itself. That however I will concede is nerdy technical knowledge that wouldn't be easily visible or spotted in most reference).
- Mostly, the style of the time was spoked wheels, not disk wheels.
- Etc.

All in all, I can categorically state that this is not accurate to any locomotive of the period (I'll excuse things like the generous width of the carriages, as that's arguably helpful to give more space to set up a scene).

And yes, I know some people will say "Yes, but maybe it's fantasy!", but something more accurate would have been useful to a wider audience.

And it's not like Polish products haven't used reference for other things where reference was an option:

- https://www.daz3d.com/military-weapons-bundle has clearly got things like a Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle, a Steyr AUG, etc.
- https://www.daz3d.com/upper-class-vehicle-bundle is certainly accurate to European luxury cars. The Roadster is clearly a Mercedes - even down to the ridges on the bonnet (or "hood" for Americans) - the "Car" has BMW's split grill...
- https://www.daz3d.com/military-aircraft-bundle-01 https://www.daz3d.com/military-aircraft-bundle-02 https://www.daz3d.com/military-helicopter-bundle ... all recognisable as actual military aircraft.

Now, even if we assume that there's been some change in policy that states they were getting too close to a likeness of actual products, it's not as if a locomotive design from the 1850s is still in any kind of copyright.

This is a vendor where I would actually expect use of solid, real-world reference, but it's just not here.

My understanding is that DAZ DOES have a policy about not allowing items that are too close to real world products, hence the reason for the complete lack of recognizeable modern car models, and why even products as old as WW2 are seldom truly accurate.  That said, even if there isn't such a policy, I've long given up on expecting things that are actually realistic here given the  "jets" with propellers, sailing ships made of concrete, toilets without seats, etc., and let's not even get into the mad love love for "armor" with cutouts directly over the vital organs, and high-heels on everything no matter how impractical or historically inaccurate.  Fortunately, DAZ isn't the only game in town and there are vendors like Dryjack, 3D Classics and Vanishing Point over at Rendo who toe the line to history a bit more stridently.     

Don't foget that design decisons in most products are down to the PAs, who will do different things (not every female outfit has hihg heels, and even armour cut-outs are not universal).

barbult

lou_harper said:

Modular Railway Track Set is on sale. Of course it's probably wrong scale.

The curves on that are way too tight for any train to negotiate, I think.

maikdecker

Richard Haseltine said:

Cybersox said:

Matt_Castle said:

To be honest, I have a huge heap of complaints about it, but I told myself I was going to bite my tongue unless someone came along to praise it.

Most of these complaints can be summed up with "Please use reference".

- It's very out of proportion, particularly in comparison to the coaches. The boiler is huge, the tender is too tall, etc.
- The 4-6-4 wheel arrangement was not used on a tender engine in the United States until 1927, way after the Old West era. The really classic old West locomotive is probably the 4-4-0 arrangement, although 4-6-0 did become increasingly common in the later years.
- Most of these older locomotives used internal valve gear, not the approximation we're getting here of (probably) Baker valve gear. On an extension of the issues with the linkages, they're not in line with the pistons, and for some reason the connecting rods are linked to the front bogie truck. (It also appears that the two cylinders of the locomotive are in phase rather than 90 degrees out of phase, which means that it would often be entirely unable to start itself. That however I will concede is nerdy technical knowledge that wouldn't be easily visible or spotted in most reference).
- Mostly, the style of the time was spoked wheels, not disk wheels.
- Etc.

All in all, I can categorically state that this is not accurate to any locomotive of the period (I'll excuse things like the generous width of the carriages, as that's arguably helpful to give more space to set up a scene).

And yes, I know some people will say "Yes, but maybe it's fantasy!", but something more accurate would have been useful to a wider audience.

And it's not like Polish products haven't used reference for other things where reference was an option:

- https://www.daz3d.com/military-weapons-bundle has clearly got things like a Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle, a Steyr AUG, etc.
- https://www.daz3d.com/upper-class-vehicle-bundle is certainly accurate to European luxury cars. The Roadster is clearly a Mercedes - even down to the ridges on the bonnet (or "hood" for Americans) - the "Car" has BMW's split grill...
- https://www.daz3d.com/military-aircraft-bundle-01 https://www.daz3d.com/military-aircraft-bundle-02 https://www.daz3d.com/military-helicopter-bundle ... all recognisable as actual military aircraft.

Now, even if we assume that there's been some change in policy that states they were getting too close to a likeness of actual products, it's not as if a locomotive design from the 1850s is still in any kind of copyright.

This is a vendor where I would actually expect use of solid, real-world reference, but it's just not here.

My understanding is that DAZ DOES have a policy about not allowing items that are too close to real world products, hence the reason for the complete lack of recognizeable modern car models, and why even products as old as WW2 are seldom truly accurate.  That said, even if there isn't such a policy, I've long given up on expecting things that are actually realistic here given the  "jets" with propellers, sailing ships made of concrete, toilets without seats, etc., and let's not even get into the mad love love for "armor" with cutouts directly over the vital organs, and high-heels on everything no matter how impractical or historically inaccurate.  Fortunately, DAZ isn't the only game in town and there are vendors like Dryjack, 3D Classics and Vanishing Point over at Rendo who toe the line to history a bit more stridently.     

Don't forget that design decisons in most products are down to the PAs, who will do different things (not every female outfit has high heels, and even armour cut-outs are not universal).

Isn't that statement in direct conflict with the argument I marked in bold type in the post you quoted? Would it therefor be safe to assume that many/most PAs at DAZ do not really BOTHER about accurate designs, but just go for their artistic dreams, as the amount of items in the DAZ shop being accurate to historical facts, really existing designs or sometimes logic itself is not really that big...

Matt_Castle

Cybersox said:

My understanding is that DAZ DOES have a policy about not allowing items that are too close to real world products, hence the reason for the complete lack of recognizeable modern car models, and why even products as old as WW2 are seldom truly accurate.

But, as I said, many of Polish's previous products can have their inspirations very clearly seen, even if they had to be modified slightly to not be exact copies.

This product here however is not factually accurate for any genuine locomotive of the era (mechanically, it couldn't even move), and it's hard to argue that locomotives of that age aren't well outside any copyright or design registration. It's so wildly out of character compared to prior offerings.

Granville

The windows in the second class car looks like they have peeling UV coating on them. Was that a thing in the Old West?

hacsart

  no... ... also the disc style of locomotive wheel (Boxpok or Bullied Firth Brown in the UK. wasn't developed until 1938..

Granville said:

The windows in the second class car looks like they have peeling UV coating on them. Was that a thing in the Old West?

PerttiA

As far as models resembling too closely their real life counterparts, we have already seen a car (Lada Niva) that was modified unrecognizable after the promo renders were already done - Don't think it was PA's decision.

maikdecker

PerttiA said:

As far as models resembling too closely their real life counterparts, we have already seen a car (Lada Niva) that was modified unrecognizable after the promo renders were already done - Don't think it was PA's decision.

Afaik there were also other products getting pulled due too much of a resemblance of modern (!) equipment. There was some music equipment - synthesizer or whatnot -  that managed to stay in the shop for a couple hours only to disappear and never surface again.

But to produce a model of a generic mid-19th century american railway should be unproblematic. Might be an bigger problem to get it looking real and having all the parts moving as they should to get the thing moving.

tsroemi

Matt_Castle said:

To be honest, I have a huge heap of complaints about it, but I told myself I was going to bite my tongue unless someone came along to praise it.

Most of these complaints can be summed up with "Please use reference".

- It's very out of proportion, particularly in comparison to the coaches. The boiler is huge, the tender is too tall, etc.
- The 4-6-4 wheel arrangement was not used on a tender engine in the United States until 1927, way after the Old West era. The really classic old West locomotive is probably the 4-4-0 arrangement, although 4-6-0 did become increasingly common in the later years.
- Most of these older locomotives used internal valve gear, not the approximation we're getting here of (probably) Baker valve gear. On an extension of the issues with the linkages, they're not in line with the pistons, and for some reason the connecting rods are linked to the front bogie truck. (It also appears that the two cylinders of the locomotive are in phase rather than 90 degrees out of phase, which means that it would often be entirely unable to start itself. That however I will concede is nerdy technical knowledge that wouldn't be easily visible or spotted in most reference).
- Mostly, the style of the time was spoked wheels, not disk wheels.
- Etc.

All in all, I can categorically state that this is not accurate to any locomotive of the period (I'll excuse things like the generous width of the carriages, as that's arguably helpful to give more space to set up a scene).

And yes, I know some people will say "Yes, but maybe it's fantasy!", but something more accurate would have been useful to a wider audience.

And it's not like Polish products haven't used reference for other things where reference was an option:

- https://www.daz3d.com/military-weapons-bundle has clearly got things like a Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle, a Steyr AUG, etc.
- https://www.daz3d.com/upper-class-vehicle-bundle is certainly accurate to European luxury cars. The Roadster is clearly a Mercedes - even down to the ridges on the bonnet (or "hood" for Americans) - the "Car" has BMW's split grill...
- https://www.daz3d.com/military-aircraft-bundle-01 https://www.daz3d.com/military-aircraft-bundle-02 https://www.daz3d.com/military-helicopter-bundle ... all recognisable as actual military aircraft.

Now, even if we assume that there's been some change in policy that states they were getting too close to a likeness of actual products, it's not as if a locomotive design from the 1850s is still in any kind of copyright.

This is a vendor where I would actually expect use of solid, real-world reference, but it's just not here.

Thanks for pointing all this out so clearly. I know a little about European historical trains and carriages, but next to nothing about the American counterparts, especially not out West. I thought the set looked beautifully done, but felt the locomotive was proportioned strangely, and that at closer look, the carriages appeared a bit like a modern build done up in old wood, basically. But I wasn't sure whether this was maybe the way things looked back then in the West. So thanks for confirming my suspicions and being so precise about the locomotive issues, I appreciate it that we can actually learn some real interesting stuff here along the way.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but @Sevrin, you know, I think the idea of putting rails into an UltraScenery expansion is just awesome. Will you ask Howie about it over in the USC thread?

kyoto kid

Cybersox said:

My understanding is that DAZ DOES have a policy about not allowing items that are too close to real world products, hence the reason for the complete lack of recognizeable modern car models, and why even products as old as WW2 are seldom truly accurate.  That said, even if there isn't such a policy, I've long given up on expecting things that are actually realistic here given the  "jets" with propellers, sailing ships made of concrete, toilets without seats, etc., and let's not even get into the mad love love for "armor" with cutouts directly over the vital organs, and high-heels on everything no matter how impractical or historically inaccurate. 

...or rooms without doors.  

Fortunately, DAZ isn't the only game in town and there are vendors like Dryjack, 3D Classics and Vanishing Point over at Rendo who toe the line to history a bit more stridently.     

....indeed there are vehicles, aircraft and watercraft there that are more faithful reproductions of real world ones. I have a very accurate version of the Milwaukee Road Hiawatha with the streamline Hudson locomotives and distinctive "Beavertail" lounge car, the iconic Greyhound Senicruiser bus popular in the 1950s through early 70s, several WWII and modern aircraft, and a number of classic cars all at that cost faction of what the pro stores charge. Share CG also has quite a few nice "real world" aircraft, ships, and vehicles as well. 

As to the Old West train, the fist thing that struck me when I saw it was the interior of the Second class carriage which looks unusually wide even for today (unless it's just the projection that was used) while the Diner interior looks more appropriate. The First class car also appears to be more European than American inspired. 

Private accommodations on trains back then were actual private cars for the wealthy and railway executives that included a  stateroom, separate lounge area, and dining area (sometimes with its own service crew). "Sleepers" were the classic Pullman style with upper and lower berths and could be fairly basic to quite sumptuous in appointment. 

pwiecek

barbult said:

lou_harper said:

Modular Railway Track Set is on sale. Of course it's probably wrong scale.

The curves on that are way too tight for any train to negotiate, I think.

Agreed. Dryjacks, are more realistic

pwiecek

Although made for a more modern train (Parkside Passenger & Boxcar), Circus Delmonte has several items mentioned in this thread

- Sleeper & Dining car variants of the passenger car

- Stock car variant of the boxcar

- not quite so decrepit textures for all.

McGyver

How do the rest of the cars attach to the tender?... there are no couplers on the tender in the promo image.

MKDAWUSS

Cybersox said:

My understanding is that DAZ DOES have a policy about not allowing items that are too close to real world products, hence the reason for the complete lack of recognizeable modern car models, and why even products as old as WW2 are seldom truly accurate.

 

Which I get (and is fine) - the part that can suck is when it's an immersion-breaking parody brand that can't be edited into something else. The sorta-but-not-quite physical version can be good for alt history and parallel worlds.
 

  That said, even if there isn't such a policy, I've long given up on expecting things that are actually realistic here given the  "jets" with propellers, sailing ships made of concrete, toilets without seats, etc., and let's not even get into the mad love love for "armor" with cutouts directly over the vital organs, and high-heels on everything no matter how impractical or historically inaccurate.  Fortunately, DAZ isn't the only game in town and there are vendors like Dryjack, 3D Classics and Vanishing Point over at Rendo who toe the line to history a bit more stridently.     

Such is life in DAZ World  That could be a series waiting to happen. Life in DAZ World: From ancient times to the present day.

Some of that sort of thing is OK (you can make it work), while others... ehhhh...

nonesuch00

I have it in my cart but it's be a long time before i can buy it. What I noticed was the chimney, or whatever it's called, where the steam smoke comes out seems huge compared to any train I've seen but I'm far from an authority on any model train.

hacsart

and back then it would have been link and pin couplers... 

McGyver said:

How do the rest of the cars attach to the tender?... there are no couplers on the tender in the promo image.

Sevrin

McGyver said:

How do the rest of the cars attach to the tender?... there are no couplers on the tender in the promo image.

Magic 

WendyLuvsCatz

it looks cartoonish to me

Fishtales

The locomotive seems to be roughly based on this one.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_General_(locomotive)

McGyver

nonesuch00 said:

I have it in my cart but it's be a long time before i can buy it. What I noticed was the chimney, or whatever it's called, where the steam smoke comes out seems huge compared to any train I've seen but I'm far from an authority on any model train.

I think the idea was to capture the impression of an "American" type locomotive of roughly the late 1850s... and probably as Fishtales pointed out, something like "The General" or other similar contemporary locomotives... for that the Smoke Stack (chimney) is sort of correct as they were very large and funnel shaped... the steam and sand domes on the boiler, and the head lamp are also more or less the right size for such an Engine, based on it's overall size... but it's hard to tell because as a whole it's an amalgamation of many different eras and national styles... there's a lot going on in that department... a lot.

Seprate from that...

It's a nice model if it's a fantasy model/alternate universe/parallel history kinda render.. there are lots of details and such and it looks good... if you are going to use it on a book cover for a civil war era railroad story or something where you are inviting attention to historical detail, maybe it's not where you want to go... if you are going "Wild, Wild West" or "Aliens VS Cowboys"... it's just fine, I don't see anyone arguing details where it's being attack by a Martian Tripod or something.

I've made lots of large scale (outdoor) model locomotives for clients in the past, so it's hard for me to see past the conglomeration of styles and ages, but looking at the details and work that went into it, that I respect... one client had me make him a "kit based" model for a fantasy train line where he wanted the attributes of several of his favorite locomotives combined into a massive unique "flagship" loco for a fictitious manufacturer... for that I had to combine parts from five different models from three different manufacturers and have it mechanically functional and sort of believable (but not historically accurate)... like pipes and details had to make sense...
There were no plans, just a general "could you blend all this into something that looks like this bad sketch"...
I thought that would be easy... it's actually not... granted that was plastic and metal, and this is polygons, but still... if you are trying to avoid directly copying an existing design (which I'm assuming was the reason for combining so many different styles and eras) it's actually hard to make it all look believable or even functional.

I dunno... I didn't want to bash the model which clearly had a lot of work go into it.

Its just not very accurate as an American "Old West" era locomotive to anyone who might know trains... otherwise if accuracy is not an issue or the train is not the focus of the render, it's a fine fantasy model.

 

Just as a general modeling note... most of the locomotive manufacturers from that time were small shops that didn't even survive into the 20th century (plus they used to copy each other's innovations as closely as possible so style is a mishmash of similar looking parts)... the manufacturers that did go on to be big were mostly gone by the 1950s and as far as I'm aware, the locomotives from the 1800s are fair game as any copyrights expired long ago... (pre-Mickey Mouse©  perpetual copyright nonsense)... at most, some pseudo-historical society may have purchased or copyrighted a particular engine's name like "The General", "Texas" or "Jupiter" and perhaps the corresponding boiler plate numbers... so you have a lot of leeway for accuracy as long as you don't call it by name and engine number. Fudge certain details by spacing them further or closer, adding more brackets, wider boiler bands, different cab windows, roof shape... little believable things that could be explained by it being made by a fictional manufacturer from that time...  call it "Apollo" and give it the number "8" on the boilerplate and it'll be fine, nobody is going to sue you.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I do like to dress up as one and shout "Objection!", "Sidebar!" and "My client pleads insanity!" at random strangers... but that's generally what I've learned over the years.

nonesuch00

McGyver said:

nonesuch00 said:

I have it in my cart but it's be a long time before i can buy it. What I noticed was the chimney, or whatever it's called, where the steam smoke comes out seems huge compared to any train I've seen but I'm far from an authority on any model train.

I think the idea was to capture the impression of an "American" type locomotive of roughly the late 1850s... and probably as Fishtales pointed out, something like "The General" or other similar contemporary locomotives... for that the Smoke Stack (chimney) is sort of correct as they were very large and funnel shaped... the steam and sand domes on the boiler, and the head lamp are also more or less the right size for such an Engine, based on it's overall size... but it's hard to tell because as a whole it's an amalgamation of many different eras and national styles... there's a lot going on in that department... a lot.

Seprate from that...

It's a nice model if it's a fantasy model/alternate universe/parallel history kinda render.. there are lots of details and such and it looks good... if you are going to use it on a book cover for a civil war era railroad story or something where you are inviting attention to historical detail, maybe it's not where you want to go... if you are going "Wild, Wild West" or "Aliens VS Cowboys"... it's just fine, I don't see anyone arguing details where it's being attack by a Martian Tripod or something.

I've made lots of large scale (outdoor) model locomotives for clients in the past, so it's hard for me to see past the conglomeration of styles and ages, but looking at the details and work that went into it, that I respect... one client had me make him a "kit based" model for a fantasy train line where he wanted the attributes of several of his favorite locomotives combined into a massive unique "flagship" loco for a fictitious manufacturer... for that I had to combine parts from five different models from three different manufacturers and have it mechanically functional and sort of believable (but not historically accurate)... like pipes and details had to make sense...
There were no plans, just a general "could you blend all this into something that looks like this bad sketch"...
I thought that would be easy... it's actually not... granted that was plastic and metal, and this is polygons, but still... if you are trying to avoid directly copying an existing design (which I'm assuming was the reason for combining so many different styles and eras) it's actually hard to make it all look believable or even functional.

I dunno... I didn't want to bash the model which clearly had a lot of work go into it.

Its just not very accurate as an American "Old West" era locomotive to anyone who might know trains... otherwise if accuracy is not an issue or the train is not the focus of the render, it's a fine fantasy model.

 

Just as a general modeling note... most of the locomotive manufacturers from that time were small shops that didn't even survive into the 20th century (plus they used to copy each other's innovations as closely as possible so style is a mishmash of similar looking parts)... the manufacturers that did go on to be big were mostly gone by the 1950s and as far as I'm aware, the locomotives from the 1800s are fair game as any copyrights expired long ago... (pre-Mickey Mouse©  perpetual copyright nonsense)... at most, some pseudo-historical society may have purchased or copyrighted a particular engine's name like "The General", "Texas" or "Jupiter" and perhaps the corresponding boiler plate numbers... so you have a lot of leeway for accuracy as long as you don't call it by name and engine number. Fudge certain details by spacing them further or closer, adding more brackets, wider boiler bands, different cab windows, roof shape... little believable things that could be explained by it being made by a fictional manufacturer from that time...  call it "Apollo" and give it the number "8" on the boilerplate and it'll be fine, nobody is going to sue you.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I do like to dress up as one and shout "Objection!", "Sidebar!" and "My client pleads insanity!" at random strangers... but that's generally what I've learned over the years.

Well, you are correct. I wanted it because 1st thing I thought of onseeing it was an Old West type train and I'd use it for cartoon type scenarios set in the Old West.

lou_harper

Cybersox said:

My understanding is that DAZ DOES have a policy about not allowing items that are too close to real world products, hence the reason for the complete lack of recognizeable modern car models, and why even products as old as WW2 are seldom truly accurate.  That said, even if there isn't such a policy, I've long given up on expecting things that are actually realistic here given the  "jets" with propellers, sailing ships made of concrete, toilets without seats, etc., and let's not even get into the mad love love for "armor" with cutouts directly over the vital organs, and high-heels on everything no matter how impractical or historically inaccurate.  Fortunately, DAZ isn't the only game in town and there are vendors like Dryjack, 3D Classics and Vanishing Point over at Rendo who toe the line to history a bit more stridently.     

There are actually a bunch of cars in the store that are pretty much exact replicas of real car models, even very recognizable ones like VW Minubus and Beatle. They don't have the logo but they unmistakable. Polish' vintage cars too. And car models don't go out of trade mark protection ever. Studebakers stopped producing forever ago, but it is still protected. So while you're right, DAZ sometimes removes products that are too close to trademarked items, there are still plenty of iffy products, especially cars in the store.

Matt_Castle

Fishtales said:

The locomotive seems to be roughly based on this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_General_(locomotive)

The word "roughly" is doing a lot of work there.

I mean, it'd be a very solid choice to recreate if one were trying to do an American locomotive of the period - its service life covers for most of the main "Wild West" era quite aptly, and it's (comparatively) well known - but the product presented is only very superficially similar.

Charlie Judge

Matt_Castle said:

Fishtales said:

The locomotive seems to be roughly based on this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_General_(locomotive)

The word "roughly" is doing a lot of work there.

I mean, it'd be a very solid choice to recreate if one were trying to do an American locomotive of the period - its service life covers for most of the main "Wild West" era quite aptly, and it's (comparatively) well known - but the product presented is only very superficially similar.

Digimation_ModelBank / VanishingPoint have a much closer representation of The General over at Rendo.