Getting on the 9 train, or not

miladyderyni_173d399f47

Novica said:

Not hopping on the train, not even going to the station. It has nothing to do with the validity (pros/cons) of the model, it's "Do I need it?"  I have so much I haven't rendered, so just sticking to what I've got. Will eventually get new generations when they are deeply discounted, a year or two from now. Not in any rush.

Same here. I am planning (read:hoping) to get inexpensive G8 stuff now. I don't need G9 for what I usually do, role-playing game character portraits or action scenes. 

AllenArt

Grendelbert said:

nonesuch00 said:

Not only did I get on the train, but I bought V9 Pro Bundle out of the gate, which I never do, and I already bought a G9 PA product, Joe Quick's Toon Kids for G9.

I hear that the G9 head & body morph packages will be released early next week too. 

Is it the Pro Bundle? I believe it's just a started bundle, which is why there's so little there. I'm very disappointed that there are just G9 Starter Essentials rather than actual G9 Essentials. Also, how do I ask this discretely: Where are the naughty bits? Victoria 9 and Arceli have gens mats, but no gens to apply them to.

Overall, I'm intrigued by the possibilities of G9, but having spent a lot of money on G8/8.1 (as well as a fair sum on G3) since I started DAZing in 2020, I'm a bit fatigued from spending. I hope some converter scripts start showing up soon. I'd rather no buy everything again for G9.

To answer your question, the anatomical elements are in the Genesis 9 Character Essentials - a separate purchase.  

daveso

Now I'm on to not even buying the morphs when they come out. Might wait until everything finally settles out and people feel good about all of it ...  Plus i retuned the 2 items I bought, and used my DAZ+ coupon, to now find out thats a gone deal..use it and its no more..no refund on using the coupon...so I return 2 products and it cost my $6 anyway. I have a bitter taste in my mouth again, plus I lost another $10 coupon as well when it all of a sudden ended and it had no expiration date. See, I'm derailed already. 

stephenschoon

Hmmm, Genesis 9 or put the heating on ?
I'll keep warm for now.

Not sure about the unified base mesh thing, morphs for male/female/other then more morphs for the character shape, isn't that what made Daz Studio so slow when you had a lot of Genesis 8 morphs installed ?

Padone

Personally what I don't like of G9 is the limited base topology, I mean G9 needs HD for everything because the base mesh is simple quads. This really limits the possible optimization for animation and games, other than limiting the other shops and non-PAs as well because we can't do HD morphs.

One solution could be if daz makes the HD toolkit available to everyone.

Ghosty12

Seeing what is going on in the forums and such, I left the station and went back home. May return to the station in a couple of years or so.

Rod Wise Driggo

Mark_e593e0a5 said:

I did get on the 9 train, pre-ordering the Victoria 9 bundle. 

• The train arrived late (bundle contents not added to the library on time)
• Some carriages were missing (bonus items not added to the library as well)
• Some engine parts are missing (e.g. PowerPose templates)
• You have to pay extra to get an adjustable seat (Genesis 9 Character Essentials)
• You may have to buy new luggage, as the old one does not really fit (autofitting of hair, clothing)
• The train looks really nice, especially near view.
• Although it looks nice and shiny, the train is a bit dysfunctional, e.g seats adjust in the wrong way (certain natural poses just look totally off with G9, e.g. some writs poses, bending of limbs, etc.)

Do I regret it? Yes, somehow. I still have a very well done Victoria 9, very suitable for close up renders. But then? Will I stay on the train? Probably not. That release was really not well handled, and still is not (e.g. missing head and body morphs despite new items released that require them, no decent way to use G8 poses on G9, ...). 

I would say it was professionally handled, because amateurs would do it better (sarcasm off).

Nice read. I had something similar cooking so I might just share....

A train riders guide to Artland

So you ask whether or not to go onboard the new Gen9-train. Maybe one should ask how riding those trains does generally work.

First of all there are already some trains underway. The rusty old V4 intercontinental, the Genesis-train which already explored those unisex carts. And of course the later iterations of the Gen2, Gen3 and Gen8-express which all features single sex carts. Not to forget some engine updates like the Gen8.1-supercharger of course. You can still ride all of those. They’ll take you to places, no worries.

But there are some important things to keep in mind:

First of all, all DAZ-trains share the same railways. So even the shiny new Gen9 can do no tricks. It has to follow the rails which may include some slopes which may slow you down or some tunnels which obscure the view. So you’ll still have to wait for some new tracks to speed and fun up your ride.

Also - and this is really weird - the overall pace is different for each passenger. Sounds strange but that’s how it is. If you bought a shiny new nVidia-front row ticket your ride will be miraculously faster then for the dude sitting right next to you but holding only a lousy CPU-pass probably obtained from Groupon.

But there are further limitations of course. Did you bring a large enough ultraportable SSD-suitcase for storing everything to entertain you while you are onboard or does your little HDD-backpack hold only the most necessary items and you need to repack for each and every trip.

Those are just some prerequisites. Now let’s look on the ride itself. You may recognize that the new Gen9 does currently only have one cart. There will be more in the future for sure but currently you have to be fine with coach.

Also riding to Artland is not only about the destination, it’s all about the trip. And this is also a thing where those 3D trains are special. To have a nice trip you need many things like food and entertainment. Thankfully you can have everything delivered to your place. Just leave your credit card with the steward and you are all set. There might be some caveats though:

- Whereas there is a huge selection on board of the older Genesis-trains, the menu and entertainment-selection on the new Gen9 is sparse right now.

- You can of course hop off at some stops along the road like Rendo-Rapids, Las R’tica or the RenderHub (to just name a few). But even those might not have much to offer right now. Plus it is a bit cumbersome to get things purchased there on board. But that’s a different story.

- What is also important is the onboard entertainment. Strangely each and every Genesis-train has not much to offer there from the start. Thankfully there are flying vendors on the train offering you everything you need to have a good time. You may for example get a Zev0nizer to adjust your seat to any position you can think of. Only problem is that all the things you might have bought on an earlier trip on a different train might not work here. So you need to get those adjusted, enhanced or replaced. But that’s the way it is. Sometimes there or other workarounds though. Once something is giving you a hard time chances are you could get it RiverSoftened. But probably not just right now.

So since you’ve learned a little more you may be able to decide if you want to already get on board and deal with the teethings all brand new trains are coming with. Or you just simply wait a little longer or use the Gen9-train only occasionally for some stages.

As they say: There are many ways to get to Artland but only a few shortcuts.

maraich

I like the out-of-the-box V9 much better than I did V8. I'm also relieved she has more geometry. I still use the generation four characters to create ears and then use PS to merge them with any Genesis 8 characters. I'm hoping that can become a part of the past once V9 ramps up. With that said, I'd expected a much more robust rollout of morphs and clothing for such a monumental release. Even the one item I'm interested in, the morph add-on pack with the ears, doesn't have enough sample images to give me a full idea of what is included, so I haven't picked it up.

McGyver

I've been on the 9 train quite a few times in the late 80s... mostly between South Ferry and Canal street... usually it was overly crowded and the urine smells had too much of a harbor or maritime undertone...  that was only more noticeable when it was less crowed, then unless the air conditioning was working, it usually smelled of damp concrete and slightly stale armpits.

But alas it is no more, I'm pretty sure it was discontinued in the early 2000s and the 1 train resumed that run.

Cybersox

Rod Wise Driggo said:

Mark_e593e0a5 said:

I did get on the 9 train, pre-ordering the Victoria 9 bundle. 

• The train arrived late (bundle contents not added to the library on time)
• Some carriages were missing (bonus items not added to the library as well)
• Some engine parts are missing (e.g. PowerPose templates)
• You have to pay extra to get an adjustable seat (Genesis 9 Character Essentials)
• You may have to buy new luggage, as the old one does not really fit (autofitting of hair, clothing)
• The train looks really nice, especially near view.
• Although it looks nice and shiny, the train is a bit dysfunctional, e.g seats adjust in the wrong way (certain natural poses just look totally off with G9, e.g. some writs poses, bending of limbs, etc.)

Do I regret it? Yes, somehow. I still have a very well done Victoria 9, very suitable for close up renders. But then? Will I stay on the train? Probably not. That release was really not well handled, and still is not (e.g. missing head and body morphs despite new items released that require them, no decent way to use G8 poses on G9, ...). 

I would say it was professionally handled, because amateurs would do it better (sarcasm off).

Nice read. I had something similar cooking so I might just share....

A train riders guide to Artland

So you ask whether or not to go onboard the new Gen9-train. Maybe one should ask how riding those trains does generally work.

First of all there are already some trains underway. The rusty old V4 intercontinental, the Genesis-train which already explored those unisex carts. And of course the later iterations of the Gen2, Gen3 and Gen8-express which all features single sex carts. Not to forget some engine updates like the Gen8.1-supercharger of course. You can still ride all of those. They’ll take you to places, no worries.

But there are some important things to keep in mind:

First of all, all DAZ-trains share the same railways. So even the shiny new Gen9 can do no tricks. It has to follow the rails which may include some slopes which may slow you down or some tunnels which obscure the view. So you’ll still have to wait for some new tracks to speed and fun up your ride.

Also - and this is really weird - the overall pace is different for each passenger. Sounds strange but that’s how it is. If you bought a shiny new nVidia-front row ticket your ride will be miraculously faster then for the dude sitting right next to you but holding only a lousy CPU-pass probably obtained from Groupon.

But there are further limitations of course. Did you bring a large enough ultraportable SSD-suitcase for storing everything to entertain you while you are onboard or does your little HDD-backpack hold only the most necessary items and you need to repack for each and every trip.

Those are just some prerequisites. Now let’s look on the ride itself. You may recognize that the new Gen9 does currently only have one cart. There will be more in the future for sure but currently you have to be fine with coach.

Also riding to Artland is not only about the destination, it’s all about the trip. And this is also a thing where those 3D trains are special. To have a nice trip you need many things like food and entertainment. Thankfully you can have everything delivered to your place. Just leave your credit card with the steward and you are all set. There might be some caveats though:

- Whereas there is a huge selection on board of the older Genesis-trains, the menu and entertainment-selection on the new Gen9 is sparse right now.

- You can of course hop off at some stops along the road like Rendo-Rapids, Las R’tica or the RenderHub (to just name a few). But even those might not have much to offer right now. Plus it is a bit cumbersome to get things purchased there on board. But that’s a different story.

- What is also important is the onboard entertainment. Strangely each and every Genesis-train has not much to offer there from the start. Thankfully there are flying vendors on the train offering you everything you need to have a good time. You may for example get a Zev0nizer to adjust your seat to any position you can think of. Only problem is that all the things you might have bought on an earlier trip on a different train might not work here. So you need to get those adjusted, enhanced or replaced. But that’s the way it is. Sometimes there or other workarounds though. Once something is giving you a hard time chances are you could get it RiverSoftened. But probably not just right now.

So since you’ve learned a little more you may be able to decide if you want to already get on board and deal with the teethings all brand new trains are coming with. Or you just simply wait a little longer or use the Gen9-train only occasionally for some stages.

As they say: There are many ways to get to Artland but only a few shortcuts.

Very nicely stated.  As I posted earlier, there really doesn't seem to be a pressing need to start using G9 now unless you simply want to be one of the first riders.  Unfortunately, DAZ having become what it's become, that means basically paying to be a beta tester while the users figure out where everything isn't working properly and we see if DAZ actually tries to fix them.  After riding the Gen3 and Gen4 trains for several years, I jumped immediately on the Genesis train when it came out, and while I loved the figure mixing capabilities, so many of my products made for DS3 were broken by the move to DS4... a program that I actually paid for since it didn't become freeware until a number of months later. And even then, the launch of Genesis was accompanied by a huge selection of reasonably priced Genesis products and it was specifically made to take advantage of all of the massive library of Gen 4 products.  I grumbled a bit at the abrupt discontinuation of service to the Genesis line, but there were definite improvements that made Genesis 2 attractive enough that I switched again.  Switching to Genesis 3 when the G2 line was termintated was a much easier decision, as G3 still stands as the biggest quantum jump in terms of appearance an usability of any of the Genesis lines, and while DAZ was still playing the "new UV" game, that issue was soon circumvented by PAs who were able to do what DAZ wouldn't and allowed full access to my entire library of textures.  I really wasn't happy with the shutting down of the Genesis 3 lines as the "improvements" in Genesis 8 were so minimal that the name G3.1 would have been more accurate, while I found the increased reliance on facial bones frequently produced some very unsatisfactory results even in DAZ's own promotional images.  For the first time, I felt that the cost of upgrading on release really wasn't worth DAZ's escalating prices, so I opted to sit back and wait for DAZ to get to their price-slashing/free giveaway games and ended up buying into G8 at the point where it's infratructure was actually halfway decent.  Even so, I continue to use the G3 products as often as the G8s, and I found the "improvements" in G8.1 to be... well, let's just say that I've yet to see a 8.1 figure that justified any of those claims, while the prices continued to rise dramatically.  Genesis 9 looks to be in the process of being shoveled out as quickly as possible... something that's made pretty clear in the promotional video with the number of times it's specifically stated that what's being demonstrated may not be in the finished product even as DAZ is asking for downpayments.  So, yeah, as I've  yet to see anything in the products released so far that justifies the even more inflated prices, and DAZ has still failed to resolve issues with what is by far the buggiest new base figure release to date, I'm quite content to stay back and continue to ride the lines that I'm already happy with until G9 gets reasonably debugged and DAZ marketing gets around to their usual game of slashing prices to the bone and giving away earlier products.   

namffuak

I'm in - but riding 3rd class on the bench seats just in front of the baggage car.

I've got V9; I'll pick up M9 and the morph packs. Anything else goes on the wish list and waits until next year.

marble

Oh wow, this analogy is really getting compounded. So I'll add to it just for fun ... the responses here so far suggest that G9/V9 might be shunted off to a siding. Personally I don't see the point of getting aboard if the train is going nowhere but even if it does make the trip, I've been there already with G8 and I don't see the point of buying another ticket for a similar ride.

Hylas

One aspect that might make me seriously consider G9 would be better bends, especially for muscular and fat bodies. But a few folks have now stated that G9 bends are somehow worse? Obviously I'll have to try it out myself, I don't have time for that right now and I'm not in a hurry.

kyoto kid

...I'm disappointed that Daz+ Fall Anniversary Special was cancelled about halfway through its trip for the inaugural run of The G9 Limited.  Sounds more like something Artrak would do.

.

Timbales

Once the train has more amenities to make the ride comfortable, I will definitely take a tour of it. I feel bad for the PAs releasing content G9. I know that products here are like a Netflix series. If it's not immediately consumed as soon as it drops, it's considered a failure. The releases of the supporting figure products we used to hasn't followed previous schedules and expectations. I have to imagine it's hurting some sales.

xyer0

Mark_e593e0a5 said:

I did get on the 9 train, pre-ordering the Victoria 9 bundle. 

• The train arrived late (bundle contents not added to the library on time)
• Some carriages were missing (bonus items not added to the library as well)
• Some engine parts are missing (e.g. PowerPose templates)
• You have to pay extra to get an adjustable seat (Genesis 9 Character Essentials)
• You may have to buy new luggage, as the old one does not really fit (autofitting of hair, clothing)
• The train looks really nice, especially near view.
• Although it looks nice and shiny, the train is a bit dysfunctional, e.g seats adjust in the wrong way (certain natural poses just look totally off with G9, e.g. some writs poses, bending of limbs, etc.)

Do I regret it? Yes, somehow. I still have a very well done Victoria 9, very suitable for close up renders. But then? Will I stay on the train? Probably not. That release was really not well handled, and still is not (e.g. missing head and body morphs despite new items released that require them, no decent way to use G8 poses on G9, ...). 

I would say it was professionally handled, because amateurs would do it better (sarcasm off).

Thanks for riding that metaphor to the final stop. 

pjwhoopie@yandex.com

Its early days for G9, so its almost unfair to render a judgement (now we can talk smack about the rollout etc...) 

But I have high hopes that this will be the best yet, and look forward to some new and exciting things.

I would really like it if PAs would take a hard look at their back catalog and update some of the really cool stuff from the V4 era to G9 (I am looking at you Aeon Soul!).

But overall, I am on the train!

plasma_ring

So now that the base morphs and expressions are out, I'm rebuilding one of my older characters and realizing just how many of the original choices I made in his design were to make up for most expressions not being very flexible on him. He's shaping up to look completely different on G9, but while his current morphs are simpler he also looks more like he should just because he's able to emote more convincingly. For me, that's a really good reason to stay aboard. 

Wanderer

kyoto kid said:

...I'm disappointed that Daz+ Fall Anniversary Special was cancelled about halfway through its trip for the inaugural run of The G9 Limited.  Sounds more like something Artrak would do.

.

That is disappointing. I was just popping in to see what was on sale, and wow. Daz doesn't want my money, I guess. NP. Epic Games (and others) will be happy to take it. 

WendyLuvsCatz

the Aussie dollar pretty much makes everything impossible for me, I was just looking at a $100 GC  and buying a quarterly DAZ+ membership and the morphs package but even that would cost me near 200AUD

I simply cannot spend that kind of money on an annual income of 14K 

I might just buy the expressions 

maikdecker

WendyLuvsCatz said:

the Aussie dollar pretty much makes everything impossible for me, I was just looking at a $100 GC  and buying a quarterly DAZ+ membership and the morphs package but even that would cost me near 200AUD

I simply cannot spend that kind of money on an annual income of 14K 

I might just buy the expressions 

Is there anything or anyone forcing You to use Generation 9?

WendyLuvsCatz

maikdecker said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

the Aussie dollar pretty much makes everything impossible for me, I was just looking at a $100 GC  and buying a quarterly DAZ+ membership and the morphs package but even that would cost me near 200AUD

I simply cannot spend that kind of money on an annual income of 14K 

I might just buy the expressions 

Is there anything or anyone forcing You to use Generation 9?

no and that is my point

but because it works in Carrara I like the idea of it, that said I can do a lot for free with Morphloader 

CHWT

WendyLuvsCatz said:

the Aussie dollar pretty much makes everything impossible for me, I was just looking at a $100 GC  and buying a quarterly DAZ+ membership and the morphs package but even that would cost me near 200AUD

I simply cannot spend that kind of money on an annual income of 14K 

I might just buy the expressions 

I am thinking about just to buy the G9 expressions, but I suddenly remember I have this:

https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3--8-face-controls

It's also FACS, so the only reason for me to buy G9 is the eyes, but the default G9 eyes are good enough, given that I bought that confusing "essentials extension".

WendyLuvsCatz

CHWT said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

the Aussie dollar pretty much makes everything impossible for me, I was just looking at a $100 GC  and buying a quarterly DAZ+ membership and the morphs package but even that would cost me near 200AUD

I simply cannot spend that kind of money on an annual income of 14K 

I might just buy the expressions 

I am thinking about just to buy the G9 expressions, but I suddenly remember I have this:

https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3--8-face-controls

It's also FACS, so the only reason for me to buy G9 is the eyes, but the default G9 eyes are good enough, given that I bought that confusing "essentials extension".

yeah the HD headmorphs may be the better choice as it actually has sliders for all the face muscles

my characters wear clothes so body morphs less important and I can port over some basic even semi HD shapes with morphloader due to denser mesh

nonesuch00

Some of us are already on the roof of the train, hopping from car to car...

BlueFingers

I've thought about it and I doubt I'll adopt G9, though I really like what V9 has shown us this far.

1. Price for G8/8.1 will come down most likely during sales making it more attractive.
2. There is a tendency in the Daz Store to break up products in more and more parts in the store you have to buy separately (now even with V9 the make-up options are separate) making investing in G9 a lot more expensive then G8/8.1, and potentially more expensive in the future. The included HD morph just isn't enough for me.
3. I have doubts skin textures with PAs will be consistent with what we’ve seen with V9, though time will tell I guess. I felt in terms of skin texture 8.1 was often a stepback with PA products compared to G8.
4. Starting prices for G9 are higher.
5. Though I agree G9 looks like a big improvement, there is still plenty of room for more improvement from what I've seen in other 3D show cases of different companies/open source projects. And the industry seems to be accelerating to higher standards and is adopting AI, which makes me believe we could be closer to the introduction of G10 then to the introduction of G8.
6. Clothing quality needs to be top-notch if you do Close-ups with V9, and I feel the quality of clothing (there are exceptions like The Row House, Vyktohria and Lindsay for example) too often just isn't there in more recent products where clothes sometimes look like they have been made of paper. And sure the new G9 clothes look fantastic, but I'm not sure yet that will be the trend.
7. In the current economy I find it hard to justify investing in a whole new generation (I have other hobbies besides 3D). The Euro/USD exchange rate is not really motivating any spending, and the current inflation rate is motivating investing in other things that may go up in price within the Euro-zone and don't spoil like, big boxes of guitar strings, home appliances, house insulation etc.
8. Auto-fit seems to have some issues getting things right with G9, and though that maybe fixed in the future it does not make me more eager to adopt G9, and I am too heavily invested in G8/8.1 for that.

Besides all this, there is also the choice of going in a different direction all together with AI generated graphics becoming available to the masses and, for me having started working with Blender. And though I really love, love ,LOVE working with DS, the launch of a new generation makes other directions more attractive as there is no extra cost while still being able expand my skills and possibilities in making pretty pictures.

At this moment I think the better choice for me would be to invest my time to make G8 look really good and wait for G10, I've seen amazing images from MelissaGT that really makes me want to get better at it. I may get a few character and items during March Madness 2024 with a good sale and when there is more clarity what the good products are, but I'm certainly not adopting right away and may likely skip the whole generation. I really hope Daz will be able to persuade me to get into G9 as I think V9 looks really good, and like to support the free availibilty of DS, however the threshold for me is just too high at the moment.

On a positive note, there are still quite a few items of the previous generation on my wishlist and I hope to pick them up at better discount prices.

CHWT

BlueFingers said:

I've thought about it and I doubt I'll adopt G9, though I really like what V9 has shown us this far.

1. Price for G8/8.1 will come down most likely during sales making it more attractive.
2. There is a tendency in the Daz Store to break up products in more and more parts in the store you have to buy separately (now even with V9 the make-up options are separate) making investing in G9 a lot more expensive then G8/8.1, and potentially more expensive in the future. The included HD morph just isn't enough for me.
3. I have doubts skin textures with PAs will be consistent with what we’ve seen with V9, though time will tell I guess. I felt in terms of skin texture 8.1 was often a stepback with PA products compared to G8.
4. Starting prices for G9 are higher.
5. Though I agree G9 looks like a big improvement, there is still plenty of room for more improvement from what I've seen in other 3D show cases of different companies/open source projects. And the industry seems to be accelerating to higher standards and is adopting AI, which makes me belief we could be closer to the introduction of G10 then to the introduction of G8.
6. Clothing quality needs to be top-notch if you do Close-ups with V9, and I feel the quality of clothing (there are exceptions like The Row House, Vyktohria and Lindsay for example) too often just isn't there in more recent products where clothes sometimes look like they have been made of paper. And sure the new G9 clothes look fantastic, but I'm not sure yet that will be the trend.
7. In the current economy I find it hard to justify investing in a whole new generation (I have other hobbies besides 3D). The Euro/USD exchange rate is not really motivating any spending, and the current inflation rate is motivating investing in other things that may go up in price within the Euro-zone and don't spoil like, big boxes of guitar strings, home appliances, house insulation etc.
8. Auto-fit seems to have some issues getting things right with G9, and though that maybe fixed in the future it does not make me more eager to adopt G9, and I am too heavily invested in G8/8.1 for that.

Besides all this, there is also the choice of going in a different direction all together with AI generated graphics becoming available to the masses and, for me having started working with Blender. And though I really love, love ,LOVE working with DS, the launch of a new generation makes other directions more attractive as there is no extra cost while still being able expand my skills and possibilities in making pretty pictures.

At this moment I think the better choice for me would be to invest my time to make G8 look really good and wait for G10, I've seen amazing images from MelissaGT that really makes me want to get better at it. I may get a few character and items during March Madness 2024 with a good sale and when there is more clarity what the good products are, but I'm certainly not adopting right away and may likely skip the whole generation. I really hope Daz will be able to persuade me to get into G9 as I think V9 looks really good, and like to support the free availibilty of DS, however the threshold for me is just too high at the moment.

On a positive note, there are still quite a few items of the previous generation on my wishlist and I hope to pick them up at better discount prices.

Well said, and as far as I know your renders look good

richardandtracy

I have a few things pro & con with Gen 9

Pro:

• V9 is very pretty.
• V9's skin is good.
• V9's geometry looks reasonable.
• The facial expressions shown so far are amazing.
• Closeup, V9 is spectacular.

Con's

• The roll-out has been poor.
• At the moment there is negligible free content.
• There are very few G9 dedicated poses, and G8 poses have to be converted.
• The expressions & detail that G9 excells in are not needed for characters further back from view.
• I have seen little evidence that Joe Public has the skill to get the wonderful expressions V9 is capable of themselves.
• There appear to be fewer expression dials and face controls for G9 than G8, meaning you should be able to get a more complete expression with G8 than G9. Just no-one has.
• The amount of G8 content available free, already purchased or available at what will eventually be a lower price than G9 content. This is down to the longevity of the G8 character. It's going to be a hurdle for G9.
• I remain to be convinced (but it may happen) that the prolems that made G2 a gendered generation after G1's ungendered generation have been cured. Nothing so far has been released to convince me.
• Auto-fit. Auto-fit means that G9 will wear a lot of G8/G3 clothing and there isn't much yet. There will be, so this 'con' wil disappear in time.

On a more personal note, DS4.21 will not render on my current PC and never will. The PC is too old and the required drivers are not for Win7. I do need a newer PC to use DS 4.21, and a more up to date graphics card would not go amiss. But, to get a significant step up in performance is flipping expensive, and not to have a significant step would be pointless. My current PC is 9 years old and is still 'mid-tier' performance. To get a better performance will be eyewatering. And G9 does work (with limitations) on DS4.15 which is the highest level that works with my GTX1060 and nVidia Win7 drivers.

So, I have one foot on the train, but I am not sure if it's one I need to get on completely yet.

Regards,

Richard.

beregar

I have to update my train thoughts a bit since previously I was more on the positive side of things, one foot within the train so to say (because I got the character essentials and the fantasy shapes) but after today I'm more or less thinking of hopping off the train entirely. It really depends if I push the buy button on essential shapes bundle or not because I most likely won't get any other stuff coming after those if I don't have them first.

I think I sit out for a bit and if it's the ticket is still 51% off when I make the decision I might hop on the train... assuming I decide to get to it at all.

WendyLuvsCatz

I know there is always another sale and in a year things could be quite different

I am NOT an early adopter of anything, be it huge UHD flat TVS (mine still only 1080p and 720p respectively), smartphones, etc