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outoftouch Hair update galore

Rod Wise DriggoRod Wise Driggo Posts: 2,208
in The Commons

Well I am used to an updated product every now and then but having approx. 40 updates to Outoftouch hair for various generations in DIM caught me by surprise ;-) And those are not particular small files either.

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Comments

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,694

    There were problems with a good number of outoftouch hair in recent versions of DS (something to do with their materials AFAIK), that's most likely related.

  • NorthOf45NorthOf45 Posts: 5,485

    Yes, a known problem https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/7944791/#Comment_7944791 (Transmitted Color map)

    Is this the final solution? That's 14 GB of content for me to download...

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,120

    Well since Genesis 9 I have many hairs, not just OOT hairs, that do not stay on the head of the G9 models. Sometimes the hair doesn't fit from the very instant I click the hair preset to put it on the G9 character and sometimes that works OK but when I open back up the scene after closing it the hair has floated off somewhere nearby in space, but not on the head of the G9 character.

  • Out of TouchOut of Touch Posts: 116
    edited January 2023

    Hey,

    the updates actually only update the shader file that comes with each hair. Since the shader file is the same with all these updated hairs, you would basically only need to update one hair and have the shader file updated.

    What is fixed: There is an issue with how the new Daz Studio Public Beta version is handling a specific setting that was used with these hairs. The renderer crashed and quit without the update. If you do not have issues when rendering, you do not need to install the updates, as this, at least at this moment, only affects the use of the Public Beta version of Daz Studio.

    Hope this helps :)

    Post edited by Out of Touch on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841

    nonesuch00 said:

    Well since Genesis 9 I have many hairs, not just OOT hairs, that do not stay on the head of the G9 models. Sometimes the hair doesn't fit from the very instant I click the hair preset to put it on the G9 character and sometimes that works OK but when I open back up the scene after closing it the hair has floated off somewhere nearby in space, but not on the head of the G9 character.

    That is unrelated to the crash issue, though. What are problem hairs? Are they dForce Hair?

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,241
    I still have the crashing problem in 4.21.1.29 beta, even after installing the OOT hair updates.
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,120

    Richard Haseltine said:

    nonesuch00 said:

    Well since Genesis 9 I have many hairs, not just OOT hairs, that do not stay on the head of the G9 models. Sometimes the hair doesn't fit from the very instant I click the hair preset to put it on the G9 character and sometimes that works OK but when I open back up the scene after closing it the hair has floated off somewhere nearby in space, but not on the head of the G9 character.

    That is unrelated to the crash issue, though. What are problem hairs? Are they dForce Hair?

    Surprisingly, here is one of them: Hudson Hair for Genesis 8 Males | Daz 3D

    There are others, but I don't want to go through and do all the tests to identify them all as I am working now on Blender tutorials and will be for months on end.

  • NorthOf45NorthOf45 Posts: 5,485
    edited January 2023

    barbult said:

    I still have the crashing problem in 4.21.1.29 beta, even after installing the OOT hair updates.

    Running Studio 4.21.1.26. I manually installed the new "OOT Hairblending Hair.dsf" shader (the only change) from one of the updates into its place in the library ("\data\outoftouch\OOT Hairblending 2\OOT Hairblending 2 Hair\"). Tried a few OOT hair products and no crashes, no problems. The transmitted color channel doesn't even show anymore. (Just on the cap, which is a different shader). The file modified date I see is 2023-01-05 04:47 (might vary with your time zone).

    Was Studio running when you installed the update? It might have the old version cached...

    Anyone with the latest beta (4.21.1.29) have anything to add?

    Post edited by NorthOf45 on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,241

    NorthOf45 said:

    barbult said:

    I still have the crashing problem in 4.21.1.29 beta, even after installing the OOT hair updates.

    Running Studio 4.21.1.26. I manually installed the new "OOT Hairblending Hair.dsf" shader (the only change) from one of the updates into its place in the library ("\data\outoftouch\OOT Hairblending 2\OOT Hairblending 2 Hair\"). Tried a few OOT hair products and no crashes, no problems. The transmitted color channel doesn't even show anymore. (Just on the cap, which is a different shader). The file modified date I see is 2023-01-05 04:47 (might vary with your time zone).

    Was Studio running when you installed the update? It might have the old version cached...

    Anyone with the latest beta (4.21.1.29) have anything to add?

    I believe you solved my problem! By identifying the single significant file, I was able to search for it and found an old version in my Daz Connect data cloud folder. I don't use Daz Connect any more, but there is some old junk left in there. I suspected Daz Connect as the source of the problem, because of the way it supersedes DIM installations without warning. I had looked specifically for Daz Connect installations of the updated products I had tested which failed, but didn't find any of them there. However, with your help, I was able to find another older OOT hair there that I had not tested since the update. I uninstalled it from Daz Connect and deleted the product from Daz Studio. Then I reinstalled it from DIM. I also purged the DSON cache for good measure. The OOT updated hairs are loading without Transmitted Color now and they render in the beta. Thank you for the critical info to fix this issue. Have I said recently that I hate Daz Connect?

  • NorthOf45NorthOf45 Posts: 5,485

    barbult said:

    NorthOf45 said:

    barbult said:

    I still have the crashing problem in 4.21.1.29 beta, even after installing the OOT hair updates.

    Running Studio 4.21.1.26. I manually installed the new "OOT Hairblending Hair.dsf" shader (the only change) from one of the updates into its place in the library ("\data\outoftouch\OOT Hairblending 2\OOT Hairblending 2 Hair\"). Tried a few OOT hair products and no crashes, no problems. The transmitted color channel doesn't even show anymore. (Just on the cap, which is a different shader). The file modified date I see is 2023-01-05 04:47 (might vary with your time zone).

    Was Studio running when you installed the update? It might have the old version cached...

    Anyone with the latest beta (4.21.1.29) have anything to add?

    I believe you solved my problem! By identifying the single significant file, I was able to search for it and found an old version in my Daz Connect data cloud folder. I don't use Daz Connect any more, but there is some old junk left in there. I suspected Daz Connect as the source of the problem, because of the way it supersedes DIM installations without warning. I had looked specifically for Daz Connect installations of the updated products I had tested which failed, but didn't find any of them there. However, with your help, I was able to find another older OOT hair there that I had not tested since the update. I uninstalled it from Daz Connect and deleted the product from Daz Studio. Then I reinstalled it from DIM. I also purged the DSON cache for good measure. The OOT updated hairs are loading without Transmitted Color now and they render in the beta. Thank you for the critical info to fix this issue.

    Nice catch. That shader is installed and used by all Hairblending Hair products, so as OOT said, installing one is all you need. Just make sure there is only one...

    Have I said recently that I hate Daz Connect?

     Not today, no... cheeky

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,241

    NorthOf45 said:

    barbult said:

    Have I said recently that I hate Daz Connect?

     Not today, no... cheeky

    I hate Daz Connect.
    OK, now today is covered. devil

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    barbult said:

    NorthOf45 said:

    barbult said:

    Have I said recently that I hate Daz Connect?

     Not today, no... cheeky

    I hate Daz Connect.

    Wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. I don't hate it but I feel pity for the new users that fall into that trap because there are no warnings about logging in to DS when one uses DAZ Central or DIM to install ones content. 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841
    edited January 2023

    nonesuch00 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    nonesuch00 said:

    Well since Genesis 9 I have many hairs, not just OOT hairs, that do not stay on the head of the G9 models. Sometimes the hair doesn't fit from the very instant I click the hair preset to put it on the G9 character and sometimes that works OK but when I open back up the scene after closing it the hair has floated off somewhere nearby in space, but not on the head of the G9 character.

    That is unrelated to the crash issue, though. What are problem hairs? Are they dForce Hair?

    Surprisingly, here is one of them: Hudson Hair for Genesis 8 Males | Daz 3D

    There are others, but I don't want to go through and do all the tests to identify them all as I am working now on Blender tutorials and will be for months on end.

    Hudson Hair seems OK for me, in the Public Build.

    Hudson hair.png
    1000 x 800 - 432K
    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,120

    Richard Haseltine said:

    nonesuch00 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    nonesuch00 said:

    Well since Genesis 9 I have many hairs, not just OOT hairs, that do not stay on the head of the G9 models. Sometimes the hair doesn't fit from the very instant I click the hair preset to put it on the G9 character and sometimes that works OK but when I open back up the scene after closing it the hair has floated off somewhere nearby in space, but not on the head of the G9 character.

    That is unrelated to the crash issue, though. What are problem hairs? Are they dForce Hair?

    Surprisingly, here is one of them: Hudson Hair for Genesis 8 Males | Daz 3D

    There are others, but I don't want to go through and do all the tests to identify them all as I am working now on Blender tutorials and will be for months on end.

    Hudson Hair seems OK for me, in the Public Build.

    That was the one that worked on initial preset fitting to G9 but when I saved scene & reopened it, the hair is directly floating over his head. I have DSPB 4.21.1.29. However, maybe it got messed up in the prior DSPB, I can't remember.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841

    nonesuch00 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    nonesuch00 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    nonesuch00 said:

    Well since Genesis 9 I have many hairs, not just OOT hairs, that do not stay on the head of the G9 models. Sometimes the hair doesn't fit from the very instant I click the hair preset to put it on the G9 character and sometimes that works OK but when I open back up the scene after closing it the hair has floated off somewhere nearby in space, but not on the head of the G9 character.

    That is unrelated to the crash issue, though. What are problem hairs? Are they dForce Hair?

    Surprisingly, here is one of them: Hudson Hair for Genesis 8 Males | Daz 3D

    There are others, but I don't want to go through and do all the tests to identify them all as I am working now on Blender tutorials and will be for months on end.

    Hudson Hair seems OK for me, in the Public Build.

    That was the one that worked on initial preset fitting to G9 but when I saved scene & reopened it, the hair is directly floating over his head. I have DSPB 4.21.1.29. However, maybe it got messed up in the prior DSPB, I can't remember.

    Ah, it doesn't say so on the product page and I looked in the wrong place to check but it is dForce Hair and that won't AutoFit because of the way the strands are generated. Check to see if the hair itself (rather than any scalp node to which it attaches) has the Line Tessellation group of properties under General in the Parameters pane - if it does you will get this issue with AutoFit.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,120

    Richard Haseltine said:

    nonesuch00 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    nonesuch00 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    nonesuch00 said:

    Well since Genesis 9 I have many hairs, not just OOT hairs, that do not stay on the head of the G9 models. Sometimes the hair doesn't fit from the very instant I click the hair preset to put it on the G9 character and sometimes that works OK but when I open back up the scene after closing it the hair has floated off somewhere nearby in space, but not on the head of the G9 character.

    That is unrelated to the crash issue, though. What are problem hairs? Are they dForce Hair?

    Surprisingly, here is one of them: Hudson Hair for Genesis 8 Males | Daz 3D

    There are others, but I don't want to go through and do all the tests to identify them all as I am working now on Blender tutorials and will be for months on end.

    Hudson Hair seems OK for me, in the Public Build.

    That was the one that worked on initial preset fitting to G9 but when I saved scene & reopened it, the hair is directly floating over his head. I have DSPB 4.21.1.29. However, maybe it got messed up in the prior DSPB, I can't remember.

    Ah, it doesn't say so on the product page and I looked in the wrong place to check but it is dForce Hair and that won't AutoFit because of the way the strands are generated. Check to see if the hair itself (rather than any scalp node to which it attaches) has the Line Tessellation group of properties under General in the Parameters pane - if it does you will get this issue with AutoFit.

    OK, thanks. I didn't realize it was dForce hair. I will just delete & readd on scene open. They should figure out a workaround.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841

    On the OOT hairs, if you use Connect, have legacy Connect files with a DIM workflow, or have multiple content directories so that you get an unupdated copy of the hair blending file, find a good copy of the file* and copy it, then execute this script in DS and it should open a file browser to the copy that DS will actually use - paste the updated version over it and the issue should be resolved 9obviously my testing was just on my own system).

    // Find the active copy of the Hair Blending file

     

     

    // get the content manager

    var oCntMgr = App.getContentMgr();

     

    // get the locations for the file in question

    var aLocations = oCntMgr.getAbsolutePaths( "/data/outoftouch/OOT Hairblending 2/OOT Hairblending 2 Hair/OOT Hairblending Hair.dsf" , false );

     

    // assuming we have a hit

    if (aLocations.length > 0 ) {

    // Get a file info object for the first entry

    var oPrefFile = new DzFileInfo ( aLocations[ 0 ] );

     

    // now tell the OS to open a folder to show that location,

    // so we ignore the filename and just take the path from the file info

    App.showURL( "file:/" + oPrefFile.path() );

    }

    * You can get the updated files from the /data/outoftouch/OOT Hairblending 2/OOT Hairblending 2 Hair/ in your main directory if you mainly use DIM, from an updated zip, or you can right-click on one of the updated OOT hair products in Smart Content>Browse to Product Folder and then find the file in there if using Connect.

  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 1,983

    The holy grail would be, if OOT could decide to add dforce simulations to their (transmapped, polygon) hair products.

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 9,456

    https://www.daz3d.com/hudson-hair-for-genesis-8-males

    was made by @Propschick and not by Outoftouch.

  • AstraffelAstraffel Posts: 210

    Hello,

    I Just want to seek further confirmation of this for others, before I message outoftouch to make them aware if they are not already. I don't want to bother OOT if it's mere user error.

    Is anyone else getting severe highlighting artifacts in the flyaway layer of some hair post update? Seems to be affecting four out of the six I have and showing most badly in lighter colors like blonde and red. I described the issue, recieved confirmation from another user that they were having the same artifacts, and documented some attempts at fixing it in this post: 

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/618601/strange-artifacts-in-out-of-touch-hair

    TL;DR - Bright artifacts in some models that weren't there before. Most visible in lighter materials and models with many flyaway strands. Some manual setting changes seem to fix it.

    For Reference

    • Seem Normal:  Linda Ponytail // MEGA Updo
    • Have Artifacts: Hannah Ponytail // Turbulent Tail // Everday Updo 2 // Messy Braids

    Example: December 2022 (left) vs February 2023 (right)

    imageimage

    Note: I am using DAZ Studio 4.21 Pro

    Thanks, for any help!

    OOT_HairTest-EU2-1.png
    625 x 469 - 555K
    OOT_HairTest-EU2-2.png
    610 x 457 - 565K
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841

    If the iems are from the Daz store report them to Daz rather than to OOT - if it is something that needs the PA's attention Daz can then pass it on.

  • AstraffelAstraffel Posts: 210
    edited February 2023

    Thanks, for the quick reply! I'll do that.

    Do I do that by submitting a ticket through the help center and use the "submit a request" button? I'm guessing the request type would be "technical support questions". (apologies, I've never done this before.)

    Edit: I think I figured it out. Ticket submitted.

    Post edited by Astraffel on
  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,306

    THis looks like an old issue that's returned.  Changing cutout opacity to something like 0.99 or 0.98 fixes that.

  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 1,974

    barbult said:

    I hate Daz Connect.
    OK, now today is covered. devil

    I don't ever load DS while my internet is connected because of connect, add me to the list of Daz Connect haters! 

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,241

    takezo_3001 said:

    barbult said:

    I hate Daz Connect.
    OK, now today is covered. devil

    I don't ever load DS while my internet is connected because of connect, add me to the list of Daz Connect haters! 

    You just need to never login to your Daz account from Daz Studio. Then Daz Connect will not be able to download metadata changes or install products. In Preference, go to the Startup tab and uncheck "Automatically Login With Remembered Credentials" and uncheck "Show Login Page". If you are already logged in in your current session, log out.

  • AstraffelAstraffel Posts: 210

    Sevrin said:

    THis looks like an old issue that's returned.  Changing cutout opacity to something like 0.99 or 0.98 fixes that.

    Thanks, for the info! I had by trial and error found that "cutout opacity" was affecting it somehow, in addition to another user suggesting certain settings that included it, but I was unsure of what values were best. 0.99 does seem to work. It'll just be annoying to have to change that every time on every model until an update fixes it.

    Anyone have thoughts on the "thin walled" parameter? It also seems to fix it but the other user cautioned against potential issues with transparency being lost.

  • PetraPetra Posts: 1,154

    I have so many Outoftouch hair but no updates in DIM for me.

  • japanggjapangg Posts: 37

    I was hoping that the update galore would resolve the color/gloss/glare issue with Caprice hair, but apparently the update does not address that particular issue.

  • butterflyfishbutterflyfish Posts: 1,239
    edited February 2023

    Astrafel said:

    Thanks, for the quick reply! I'll do that.

    Do I do that by submitting a ticket through the help center and use the "submit a request" button? I'm guessing the request type would be "technical support questions". (apologies, I've never done this before.)

    Edit: I think I figured it out. Ticket submitted.

    Did you ever get any resolution to your ticket? I just noticed Bendine hair is also doing this. I hope they put out a general fix. I would hate to think I'm going to have to go through all my OOT hair and figure out the problem hairs myself. I have a LOT of them.

    edit: "Martha's Everyday Bob" does it too. Ugh.

    Post edited by butterflyfish on
  • AstraffelAstraffel Posts: 210
    edited February 2023

    @butterflyfish

    The only response I've had so far was the initial confirmation email of the ticket being submitted. That was about nine days ago. While I'll plan to update my original post if Daz or outoftouch fixes the problem, the confirmation email did mention as follows:

    We do ask that the information discussed in our tickets is not shared. This can cause confusion and frustration among other users. We deal with our tickets on a case by case basis. Should there be an issue that involves many customers, we will be sure to contact and tend to each customer directly. Should an announcement need to be made publicly, Daz3D will do so directly and as we best see fit. Should we find information has been posted, it will be deleted or removed. We appreciate your cooperation.

    With that in mind, I'd infer that the best thing would be for anyone having this problem to submit their own ticket. Hopefully, enough individual tickets will boost the priority to get these artifacts fixed for everyone.

     

    I'll restate the two manual solutions that I am currently aware of. Both are done in the surfaces tab.

    • For each highlighted material, set the "Cutout Opacity" setting to 0.99 or less.
    • Select all materials and toggle the "Thin Walled" setting to "On".

    NOTE: These settings are local and must be changed for each model every time a new instance is imported. If the item has an "!Apply First" script, that seems to reset the settings back to the relative defaults as well. While both "0.99 Cutout Opacity" and "Thin Walled On" worked for me, other users have recommended the first option and cautioned against the second.

    Anyway, best of luck with yours!

    EDIT: I revised the fixes to avoid confusing wording and removed some unnecessary rambling.

    Post edited by Astraffel on
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