Pre- Genesis 9
Drogo Nazhur
Posts: 1,117
in The Commons
Is NEW content still being made for Pre-Genesis 9 characters (G8, G3, etc)? Or now that G9 is out the earlier releases are done with?
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Not much, but that is normal
Some things are still released for 8 and 8.1, though not much. Some G9 have G9/8.1 included. I haven't seen anything for G3 in ages (as: I joined Daz 1.5 year ago, and I don't think I've seen a single one since).
There are genesis 8 products still being released at the various other storefronts. Not sure about genesis 3 though that's now considerably older.
...G3 and G8 are fairly compatible with each other (same base body mesh and UV) so between the two there is a lot of supporting content available. I routinely use G3 clothing on G8 with little need for adjustments and fit/parent hair manually between the two to preserve movement and styling morphs
With G8's run being over 4 years there is a lot of content available here alone.
Frankly, if you wanted to collect all the content made for G3-G8+ probably it'll take you a lifetime. Slightly less if you want to narrow the themes.
As I don't have any G9 character and, before this past week, I haven't bought anything for several months, I have just recently been looking at what's available.
So I have taken advantage of a few sales here which have had G8 stuff at much reduced prices and then at the other store, I've also found some G8 bargains. So my G8 characters are still getting new clothes, etc., and all at good discounts but the well will run dry soon so make the most of it.
It you use a G3 for G8 or a G8 for a G3, does it explode the size of the saved file as is the case when you parent a G3 item to a G2 ?
Please message me about other store fronts. I know of two of them but would be interested in finding more.
if you autofit an item from one figure to another just save a scene then all data related to the converted item need to be saved in the scene. That's why the saved scene is huge.
To avoid big scene files, save the converted item as a new figure asset, then use the new asset in your scene.
AutoFitting will create a new aset, which will be embedded in the scene file if you don't use File>Save As>Support Assets>Figure/Prop Asset - but the data has to go somewhere, so it is sensible to do that only with items you expect to use repeatedly (so you have one copy of the data for multiple scenes). Parenting and unmodified item to a different figure will still point to the original asset, though of course if you simulate it or use a weight-mapped dForm then the weight/position infor for each vertex will be added to the scene.
Not really, G8 is going the way of G3, which went the way of G2, which went the way of G1. The circle of...I dunno, beans?
Dunno, I still see a lot of G8 stuff and be it only in the form of a combined G8/G9 product, which I always prefer about the G9 only. Over at Rendo a quality vendor like lilflame is more or less back on G8 mainly having had G8/G9 versions of new releases before. I would say change to G9 is way slower than from G3 and G8. Still have to further adopt myself to G9. Feel much more at home with G8/G8.1.
G8 is still going strong almost everywhere else besides the official Daz store. So you don't have to search very hard. A quick glance at the "what's new" page at Rendo is dominated by G8 releases. In fact I think I only saw ONE item for G9 on the whole page, that's it. Everything else is Genesis 8. And not even 8.1, no it is all Genesis 8.0.
Some PAs even appear to have dropped Genesis 9 in favor of 8, which I think is a very bad tell on the true state of Genesis 9. I honestly have to say that G9 feels forced at this point. Of course Daz is going to make everything for G9. But the 3rd parties don't have to abide by that. Some PAs like G9 because it has a few more polys than 8 and unisex. For me personally I just don't see a reason to go to 9. 9 just doesn't offer a compelling enough reason to jump when there is no compatibility. Even Genesis 8 reuses a lot of Genesis 3 UVs. I made fun of G8 calling it G3.5, but at least there was that compatibility between them with the minor improvements. Most of the improvements on G9 are basically textures. And there is still significant debate over G9's bending, which may or may not be any improvement. If it doesn't pose better, what is the point? If you convert G9 textures to G8, you can get the same results. A lot of people don't realize this. They just see Victoria 9 and think she's pretty.
If I am going to jump to a new generation, I expect either one of two things: Either the new generation offers a lot of compatibility like G8 did, or the new generation is vastly superior in every possible way. But G9 doesn't do either of these. Genesis 9 breaks all compatibility, and yet doesn't offer any true generational improvements for this effort. I was pretty hyped for G9, too. I was totally on board with the concept and unisex. I even told people afraid their PCs couldn't handle an 8k texture to chill (and they still need to chill). Victoria 9 looked nice, but my hype quickly tanked when I used G9 for a little bit. I just don't see any genuine improvements.
Victoria 9 is nice, but it should be clear at this point that this is due to the artist who created her, rather than anything Genesis 9 does. We cannot pretend that artistic quality is a Genesis 9 exclusive trait, if you take the material textures away what does G9 really do?
As more people come to realize this, I think that keeps them from moving on. I'm only buying environments and props now from this store if I buy anything at all.
As others have mentioned, there's lots of G8 content in other stores. After G9 was released there were a few items released over at Rendo as PAs experimented with the new figure, but interestingly enough it seems that it's the G9 content that has dried up, not G8. Still some of products being released but not as many as when G9 was the new shiny thing to try out.
As a result, the vast majority of my spending has been over there, only bought a couple of vehicles and scene clutter type prop sets from here.
Out of idle curiosity, I went to the main store page and sorted for New Arrivals but filtered for G3. There are several pose sets for G3-9 plus EM-Bike 01 with G3-9 poses tagged New. Right after them, so very recent, were several pose sets, hairs, sandals, and even Matty Manx Beautiful Eyes sets - all for G3 to either 8/8.1 or 9.
Protozoon's musical instruments and related sets used to only have G8/8.1 poses, but as of Classic Rock and Accordion (both released this year), Protozoon started including poses for G3 & G9 well as G8/8.1.
Yes, I've been buying G8 content in other stores fronts. As a matter of fact I ust picked up some new items and characters for G8. For me and G9 it seems you need a clothes converting product, which is on sale here in the Daz store https://www.daz3d.com/mmx-genesis-9-clones-for-all, to have all the G8 content I have bought over time and it's a bunch. It seems that I'll be using G8 just like I had to do with V4 for a very long time.
This product is needed to go back from G9 to earlier figures.
To use your G1 to G8 clothes on G9 you have autofit clones included in G9 base.
I was thinking the same thing which is why I started this topic but couldn't phrase it as nicely as you did
Please check your messages
That is only needed IF you are wanting to use Genesis 9 clothing on Genesis 8, 3, 2 or the original Genesis. If you want to use clothing from Genesis, 2, 3 or 8 on Genesis 9, the autofit clones are included with the base model.
Looks can be deceiving.
Firstly, rendo isnt indicative of the market. If they were, victoria 4 would be the best, most popular, widespread figure being released right now lol
Secondly, what ur seeing is residual genesis 8 stuff. I myself, had three outfits id started on g8 and ended up converting to g9 (so they have/will have both vs') After theyre done, ill be strictly g9. Its too much work for me to keep that up forever. A lot of PA's have had the same thing happening, or its an item that is easy to support both on (when and where it makes sense to do that)
Sure, there will be vendors that stubbornly stick with g8... for whatever reasons... until they see their sales slowing to a trickle and how much better g9 would do. PAs support what makes the most money. I mean... how often do you guys see genesis 3 being supported these days?
Ive been doing this 20 yrs. The market will slowly drift to g9, mark my words.
G3 not being supported is not the best example because G3 is like a beta run for G8+. They are very close except G3 is more limited and only G3 thing that does not convert to G8+ are HD morphs.
With G9 there's going to be generational split in the Daz user base. This is how it's going to play out.
It's going to be similar to split with V4/M4 where quite a number of people stayed with this base and didn't move at all.
G3-G8+ products reached levels of saturation where, if one is considering those generations good enough for their needs, there's no need to exit this comfort zone (or to buy anything new which is not the best for PAs out there so for a PA it's better to move to G9 and to do so fast).
But people who started with Daz closer to the tail end of G8+ life or when G9 was introduced will move on to the new.
Maybe not good enough, but having nothing better... Waiting for Genesis X, while having a vast existing base of assets for just about everything on G8/G8.1 and getting more very cheap.
Ok. You dont like that analogy so how bout... How many genesis (first iteration, also androgynous) products do you see being released??
Also, the market only split because daz changed the tech enuff to break poser compatibility. Not because people preferred generation 4. In fact, people were very bent they couldnt play with genesis in poser. (And before anyone goes all bad evil daz, daz bent over backwards and tried like hell to make it work in poser, it just didnt work well and smith micro wouldnt play ball)
All these things youve said are just plain wrong or highly speculative, based on zero real marketing or sales numbers data.
The plain truth is, you dont know this market better than the PAs who are as long in the tooth as I am... or Daz
I don't need marketing data to point it out that there are people who never moved past old generations and it's not a tiny number. It's also a fact that one doesn't even need to buy anything new for G3 or G8 and can stay with it just fine.
I'd also like to point that G9 also breaks compatibility enough to warrant a split in a similar way.
There will be split, I'm sure of it.
If it was similar, i wouldnt be supporting both right now. It does not break it in a similar way AT ALL. Again, wrong. And yes you actually do need data to back those claims... otherwise youre just spewing speculation not based on any fact.
Again, the split occurred because of people not wanting to jump to Daz Studio. So they stagnated themselves on Gen 4 for posers sake.
We are both speculating right now regardless of what was before.
Between Genesis and G2 there was jump in quality. Between G2 and G3 there was even greater one.
Between G8+ and G9 there's one, but it's not a dramatic one. Some of it like PBR skins were actually introduced with G8.1.
You can easily look at the G8+ library, shrug and say "good enough" and just stay there cherrypicking what new G9 releases you might want because you need a monster or an animal never made for G8.
It's not a situation where older figures were so old you could not get results on pair with G8 because either the figure is so ancient it can't bend like a living person or it can't even be converted to Iray with any good effect.
no we are not both speculating. I have access to sales data you do not. Over every single generation since generation 4
but im gonna let you hold onto whatever misconceptions you wish to. Its a waste of my time in arguing any longer.
It is interesting to me when people proclaim that they are NOT going to use the currently newest model for whatever reason. I've been watching this happen with each and every new generation since Victoria and Michael 4. I must be an outlier then, because I am always eager to see what the new generation offers and do what I can with it as soon as I can. Having Genesis 9 in my library doesn't preclude me from using Genesis 8, or 3, or 2, or even Victoria 4 if I feel like it - and sometimes I DO feel like it and do so with no need to disparage any other generation. I'm NOT criticising or complaining, just observing. :)
Maybe I am just an Old Fart on The Block (not related to The New Kids on The Block musical group), but it is amusing to me to read all these heartfelt declarations. I just sit here on my porch, rocking in my rocker, grinning, waiting for the next kid that needs to be told to "Git off'n muh lawn!", watching the world spin on by.