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Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.9.0.21!

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  • Peter WadePeter Wade Posts: 1,639

    Just thought I'd add my thoughts here since it loks as if everybody else has smiley

    I don't like DRM, I don't think it stops the determined pirates but it does inconvenience honest customers. I've had problems in other online stores where DRM has been a nuiscance to me. From what I understand of Daz Connect it isn't that bad apart from one thing, incompatibilty with Carrara. That is enough to stop me from using it until either they make it work in Carrara or I don't have any choice.

    My other non-DRM problem is having to re-download everything to bring it into Daz Connect. I've been buying stuff from Daz for a long time, I've got lots of it, and I my internet connection has an "acceptable use" download limit. If I ever do migrate my current library to Daz Connect it will be a long drawn out process, a few things at a time.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    Peter Wade said:

    Just thought I'd add my thoughts here since it loks as if everybody else has smiley

    I don't like DRM, I don't think it stops the determined pirates but it does inconvenience honest customers. I've had problems in other online stores where DRM has been a nuiscance to me. From what I understand of Daz Connect it isn't that bad apart from one thing, incompatibilty with Carrara. That is enough to stop me from using it until either they make it work in Carrara or I don't have any choice.

    My other non-DRM problem is having to re-download everything to bring it into Daz Connect. I've been buying stuff from Daz for a long time, I've got lots of it, and I my internet connection has an "acceptable use" download limit. If I ever do migrate my current library to Daz Connect it will be a long drawn out process, a few things at a time.

    You do not have to redownload everything. What you have you still have. 

  • Peter WadePeter Wade Posts: 1,639
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Peter Wade said:

    Just thought I'd add my thoughts here since it loks as if everybody else has smiley

    I don't like DRM, I don't think it stops the determined pirates but it does inconvenience honest customers. I've had problems in other online stores where DRM has been a nuiscance to me. From what I understand of Daz Connect it isn't that bad apart from one thing, incompatibilty with Carrara. That is enough to stop me from using it until either they make it work in Carrara or I don't have any choice.

    My other non-DRM problem is having to re-download everything to bring it into Daz Connect. I've been buying stuff from Daz for a long time, I've got lots of it, and I my internet connection has an "acceptable use" download limit. If I ever do migrate my current library to Daz Connect it will be a long drawn out process, a few things at a time.

    You do not have to redownload everything. What you have you still have. 

    My understanding is that I can keep my current stuff outside of Connect, but if I want to put it into Connect and have the automatic updates and other stuff that Connect does then I would need to re-download it. Is that correct?

    I use my own categories rather than smart content so I'm not that bothered about migrating to Connect, although the automatic updates could be useful.

     

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    mjc1016 said:
    Bejaymac said:

    I refuse to install either the CMS or DIM so as long as that stays the same then this wont really bother me any, haven't bought anything from here in nearly 2 years (even longer for the other stores), and I don't see that changing any time soon,

    However I do have friends who do buy regularly, and I usually end up having to do the odd tweak to a rig for things they aren't happy about, and that's before building hundreds of morphs into outfits, that way they don't get the shrink wrap effect from the crappy morph projection system.

    So the big question is will I still be able to save these kind of changes back to an encrypted item like I currently can with the regular DSON content.

    Not by directly editing the files...

    You can, however, save them to your own files. 

  • JPayneJPayne Posts: 79

    I'm not really all that bothered about the upcoming changes myself. Although it sucks that honest people feel like they have to suffer for the deeds of a few. Like paying higher premiums on your auto insurance because of a few numbnuts. I got a feeling its much ado about nothing. If things start going bad during the change I'm quite certain Daz will alleviate any bottlenecks that should arise. It would be in their best interest to do so. All I want to be able to do is find stuff easier in my runtimes... I'm apparently in a minority that happens to like both smart content and install manager. I have on occasion changed file names to something in English but as long as I can find what I'm looking for... I'm good to go. I'd love to see Daz implement an auto-smart file maker that could make smart files out of ancient products and product made from another vendor. I use smart content a lot because my memory sucks and I can't recall what I bought a day ago let alone a month or a decade. To select V7 and see everything that is available to it is priceless to me. But trying to create metadata for some products can be challenging. How about a Genius content that can figure out a shirt was built for Gen3 from a different store and automatically create the necessary steps that add the item to the smart content. I noticed a lot of vendors outside Daz are either just plain lazy or think no one wants it, to include smart content with their product that is clearly only gonna work in DS...

    I can't blame Daz for wanting to secure their content and also try and eliminate confusion by end users during the installation and update process. I'm sure they see it as a win-win situation. If I were a PA or Daz employee I'd be pissed seeing my hard work on some warez site. I'm just an end-user who has seen my stuff end up in video games, porn sites, promotional material for whatever etc...

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    Peter Wade said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Peter Wade said:

    Just thought I'd add my thoughts here since it loks as if everybody else has smiley

    I don't like DRM, I don't think it stops the determined pirates but it does inconvenience honest customers. I've had problems in other online stores where DRM has been a nuiscance to me. From what I understand of Daz Connect it isn't that bad apart from one thing, incompatibilty with Carrara. That is enough to stop me from using it until either they make it work in Carrara or I don't have any choice.

    My other non-DRM problem is having to re-download everything to bring it into Daz Connect. I've been buying stuff from Daz for a long time, I've got lots of it, and I my internet connection has an "acceptable use" download limit. If I ever do migrate my current library to Daz Connect it will be a long drawn out process, a few things at a time.

    You do not have to redownload everything. What you have you still have. 

    My understanding is that I can keep my current stuff outside of Connect, but if I want to put it into Connect and have the automatic updates and other stuff that Connect does then I would need to re-download it. Is that correct?

    I use my own categories rather than smart content so I'm not that bothered about migrating to Connect, although the automatic updates could be useful.

    With this build of the Beta, yes you have to redownload everything. I am going to recommend waiting on doing that, as it may not be necessary by release. 

  • mjmmjm Posts: 5
    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:
    Daikatana said:
    mjm said:

    I've read this entire discussion – people expressed many concerns about not being able to use the content library (as is the DAZ Studio Formats section) or to rearrange their files. But in my opinion, there is another, far more important and insidious problem. What if one day DAZ goes out of business or, for some reason, is no longer able to provide their services? It's not something we want to happen but nevertheless it's within the realms of possibility. What happens with all the content we bought? Since it's encrypted, it can't be used in other software. Even if someone creates an application meant to replace DAZ Studio, they won't be able to make it compatible with the encrypted content. So, in the end, we'll be left with gigabytes of unusable stuff that we paid quite a lot of money for. Now, this is a discussion that we've already had in the gaming industry – what if, say, Steam goes out of business? Valve said that they have contingencies in place should something like that happen and games would still be playable. And that brings me to my question – is DAZ going to give us a guarantee that they will provide us with a way to decrypt the content when they are no longer able to support their software/store?

    This is a main concern of mine as well.  I really wish someone at DAZ would chime in on this.

     

    DAZ_Jon addressed this concern here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/936241/#Comment_936241

     

    Fair enough, I must have missed that. Still, I'm not really on board with this entire DRM idea. I've been a gamer long enough to know that in the end it always hurts the honest, paying customers while pirates find a way around it.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    mjm said:
    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:
    Daikatana said:
    mjm said:

    I've read this entire discussion – people expressed many concerns about not being able to use the content library (as is the DAZ Studio Formats section) or to rearrange their files. But in my opinion, there is another, far more important and insidious problem. What if one day DAZ goes out of business or, for some reason, is no longer able to provide their services? It's not something we want to happen but nevertheless it's within the realms of possibility. What happens with all the content we bought? Since it's encrypted, it can't be used in other software. Even if someone creates an application meant to replace DAZ Studio, they won't be able to make it compatible with the encrypted content. So, in the end, we'll be left with gigabytes of unusable stuff that we paid quite a lot of money for. Now, this is a discussion that we've already had in the gaming industry – what if, say, Steam goes out of business? Valve said that they have contingencies in place should something like that happen and games would still be playable. And that brings me to my question – is DAZ going to give us a guarantee that they will provide us with a way to decrypt the content when they are no longer able to support their software/store?

    This is a main concern of mine as well.  I really wish someone at DAZ would chime in on this.

     

    DAZ_Jon addressed this concern here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/936241/#Comment_936241

     

    Fair enough, I must have missed that. Still, I'm not really on board with this entire DRM idea. I've been a gamer long enough to know that in the end it always hurts the honest, paying customers while pirates find a way around it.

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996

    This particular encryption / system / whatever you want to call it actually doesn't hurt the honest customer from what I've seen (unless you use Carrera but apparently Daz has ditched that ship anyway.) The problem is that basically everyone has had horrible experiences with DRM being introduced to things in the past where it has never worked and always caused them hardship, so everyone goes on high alert the moment it gets mentioned. 

    The only things I can really suggest to calm people down is to be really really clear about what it actually does and does not do, and show people specifically how to choose where the cloud content will be installed, in case they want it on a different drive. The information that this is not the sky crashing could be around but it's easy to miss things unless they're blindingly obvious and well represented by someone official.

  • Eustace ScrubbEustace Scrubb Posts: 2,702

    I did notice that "Fit to" now has two different styles or algorithms available:  what's the difference?

  • Peter WadePeter Wade Posts: 1,639
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    mjm said:
    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:
    Daikatana said:
    mjm said:

    I've read this entire discussion – people expressed many concerns about not being able to use the content library (as is the DAZ Studio Formats section) or to rearrange their files. But in my opinion, there is another, far more important and insidious problem. What if one day DAZ goes out of business or, for some reason, is no longer able to provide their services? It's not something we want to happen but nevertheless it's within the realms of possibility. What happens with all the content we bought? Since it's encrypted, it can't be used in other software. Even if someone creates an application meant to replace DAZ Studio, they won't be able to make it compatible with the encrypted content. So, in the end, we'll be left with gigabytes of unusable stuff that we paid quite a lot of money for. Now, this is a discussion that we've already had in the gaming industry – what if, say, Steam goes out of business? Valve said that they have contingencies in place should something like that happen and games would still be playable. And that brings me to my question – is DAZ going to give us a guarantee that they will provide us with a way to decrypt the content when they are no longer able to support their software/store?

    This is a main concern of mine as well.  I really wish someone at DAZ would chime in on this.

     

    DAZ_Jon addressed this concern here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/936241/#Comment_936241

     

    Fair enough, I must have missed that. Still, I'm not really on board with this entire DRM idea. I've been a gamer long enough to know that in the end it always hurts the honest, paying customers while pirates find a way around it.

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

    Currently, not being able to use content in Carrara, unless that is going to be fixed.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    lx said:

    (unless you use Carrera but apparently Daz has ditched that ship anyway.) 

    I recommend against such assumptions. 

  • mjmmjm Posts: 5
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    mjm said:
    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:
    Daikatana said:
    mjm said:

    I've read this entire discussion – people expressed many concerns about not being able to use the content library (as is the DAZ Studio Formats section) or to rearrange their files. But in my opinion, there is another, far more important and insidious problem. What if one day DAZ goes out of business or, for some reason, is no longer able to provide their services? It's not something we want to happen but nevertheless it's within the realms of possibility. What happens with all the content we bought? Since it's encrypted, it can't be used in other software. Even if someone creates an application meant to replace DAZ Studio, they won't be able to make it compatible with the encrypted content. So, in the end, we'll be left with gigabytes of unusable stuff that we paid quite a lot of money for. Now, this is a discussion that we've already had in the gaming industry – what if, say, Steam goes out of business? Valve said that they have contingencies in place should something like that happen and games would still be playable. And that brings me to my question – is DAZ going to give us a guarantee that they will provide us with a way to decrypt the content when they are no longer able to support their software/store?

    This is a main concern of mine as well.  I really wish someone at DAZ would chime in on this.

     

    DAZ_Jon addressed this concern here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/936241/#Comment_936241

     

    Fair enough, I must have missed that. Still, I'm not really on board with this entire DRM idea. I've been a gamer long enough to know that in the end it always hurts the honest, paying customers while pirates find a way around it.

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

    What about the last 22 pages of people who are rather upset that you force them into using Smart Content or prevent them from modifying some files? I mean, that must count for something…

  • NathNath Posts: 2,848
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    mjm said:
    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:
    Daikatana said:
    mjm said:

    I've read this entire discussion – people expressed many concerns about not being able to use the content library (as is the DAZ Studio Formats section) or to rearrange their files. But in my opinion, there is another, far more important and insidious problem. What if one day DAZ goes out of business or, for some reason, is no longer able to provide their services? It's not something we want to happen but nevertheless it's within the realms of possibility. What happens with all the content we bought? Since it's encrypted, it can't be used in other software. Even if someone creates an application meant to replace DAZ Studio, they won't be able to make it compatible with the encrypted content. So, in the end, we'll be left with gigabytes of unusable stuff that we paid quite a lot of money for. Now, this is a discussion that we've already had in the gaming industry – what if, say, Steam goes out of business? Valve said that they have contingencies in place should something like that happen and games would still be playable. And that brings me to my question – is DAZ going to give us a guarantee that they will provide us with a way to decrypt the content when they are no longer able to support their software/store?

    This is a main concern of mine as well.  I really wish someone at DAZ would chime in on this.

     

    DAZ_Jon addressed this concern here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/936241/#Comment_936241

     

    Fair enough, I must have missed that. Still, I'm not really on board with this entire DRM idea. I've been a gamer long enough to know that in the end it always hurts the honest, paying customers while pirates find a way around it.

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

    How about the point that we cannot rearrange the file structure? Now, I unzip to a temporary directory and copy things in to my runtime. This allows me to eliminate to me unnecessary layers of subdirectories, put content in the places where I can easily find it, and overall improve my workflow by having things set up the way I want them to be. Smart Content already doesn't suit my workflow.

    As an honest paying customer I resent the implication that my concerns, or my workflow, are somehow shady or illegitimate.

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    lx said:

    (unless you use Carrera but apparently Daz has ditched that ship anyway.) 

    I recommend against such assumptions. 

    I would love to not make them - Carrera looks really interesting, but is a bit out of date with Studio and every indication and post I've seen about it suggests that its users feel forgotten about. I and others I've seen comment have thought about buying it numerous times only to be scared off by the silence surrounding it. Just tell us things are planned and it's going to be supported and updated etc and you will gain more customers.

  • jmperjmper Posts: 257
    edited October 2015
    DAZ_Spooky said:

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

    Well, besides the snarky comment and the fact that the DRM is not live with an abundant material.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2013/03/19/drm-hurts-companies-more-than-piracy-developer-argues/

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-11-11-your-customers-hate-drm-rambourg

    There are numerous other links. One good, if not great, example of anti-DRM is gog.com by CD Projekt.

    It isn't about us explaining to you why or why not this is a great idea. This should be about DAZ explaining what is going to occur and when. Then if it was a bad idea, your company will find out the ramifications.

    Post edited by jmper on
  • jag11jag11 Posts: 885
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

     http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/935860/#Comment_935860

    There is no worse blind man than the one who doesn't want to see. There is no worse deaf man than the want who doesn't want to hear. And there is no worse madman than the one who doesn't want to understand.

    There is no worse Company than...

     

  • captainklutz_a2ec859073captainklutz_a2ec859073 Posts: 196

    I think my earlier post got missed:

    Rather than having to do a complete re-install at each iteration, content, plug-ins etc., is it not possible just to patch an existing functional install from for example 4.8 to 4.9?

     

     

     

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,335
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    mjm said:
    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:
    Daikatana said:
    mjm said:

    I've read this entire discussion – people expressed many concerns about not being able to use the content library (as is the DAZ Studio Formats section) or to rearrange their files. But in my opinion, there is another, far more important and insidious problem. What if one day DAZ goes out of business or, for some reason, is no longer able to provide their services? It's not something we want to happen but nevertheless it's within the realms of possibility. What happens with all the content we bought? Since it's encrypted, it can't be used in other software. Even if someone creates an application meant to replace DAZ Studio, they won't be able to make it compatible with the encrypted content. So, in the end, we'll be left with gigabytes of unusable stuff that we paid quite a lot of money for. Now, this is a discussion that we've already had in the gaming industry – what if, say, Steam goes out of business? Valve said that they have contingencies in place should something like that happen and games would still be playable. And that brings me to my question – is DAZ going to give us a guarantee that they will provide us with a way to decrypt the content when they are no longer able to support their software/store?

    This is a main concern of mine as well.  I really wish someone at DAZ would chime in on this.

     

    DAZ_Jon addressed this concern here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/936241/#Comment_936241

     

    Fair enough, I must have missed that. Still, I'm not really on board with this entire DRM idea. I've been a gamer long enough to know that in the end it always hurts the honest, paying customers while pirates find a way around it.

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

     

    The real problem is that, until this is out beyond beta with DRM intact, we won't KNOW all the potential impacts, as many many users won't even be aware it is coming.  And when the ones who DO have some legitimate workflow/plugin/whatever reason that is sound beyond the 'I have seen DRM screw stuff up before' reasoning complain and point out how it impacts them, it will be too late to change it.

     

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    jmper said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

    Well, besides the snarky comment and the fact that the DRM is not live with an abundant material.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2013/03/19/drm-hurts-companies-more-than-piracy-developer-argues/

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-11-11-your-customers-hate-drm-rambourg

    There are numerous other links. One good, if not great, example of anti-DRM is gog.com by CD Projekt.

    It isn't about us explaining to you why or why not this is a great idea. This should be about DAZ explaining what is going to occur and when. Then if it was a bad idea, your company will find out the ramifications.

    None of those links has anything to do with this encryption system. So I will ask again, other than no longer being able to hack (Or edit if you prefer) a file created by a published artist, how does this encryption impact what you are doing in a negative way? 

     

     

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    Nath said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    mjm said:
    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:
    Daikatana said:
    mjm said:

    I've read this entire discussion – people expressed many concerns about not being able to use the content library (as is the DAZ Studio Formats section) or to rearrange their files. But in my opinion, there is another, far more important and insidious problem. What if one day DAZ goes out of business or, for some reason, is no longer able to provide their services? It's not something we want to happen but nevertheless it's within the realms of possibility. What happens with all the content we bought? Since it's encrypted, it can't be used in other software. Even if someone creates an application meant to replace DAZ Studio, they won't be able to make it compatible with the encrypted content. So, in the end, we'll be left with gigabytes of unusable stuff that we paid quite a lot of money for. Now, this is a discussion that we've already had in the gaming industry – what if, say, Steam goes out of business? Valve said that they have contingencies in place should something like that happen and games would still be playable. And that brings me to my question – is DAZ going to give us a guarantee that they will provide us with a way to decrypt the content when they are no longer able to support their software/store?

    This is a main concern of mine as well.  I really wish someone at DAZ would chime in on this.

     

    DAZ_Jon addressed this concern here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/936241/#Comment_936241

     

    Fair enough, I must have missed that. Still, I'm not really on board with this entire DRM idea. I've been a gamer long enough to know that in the end it always hurts the honest, paying customers while pirates find a way around it.

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

    How about the point that we cannot rearrange the file structure? Now, I unzip to a temporary directory and copy things in to my runtime. This allows me to eliminate to me unnecessary layers of subdirectories, put content in the places where I can easily find it, and overall improve my workflow by having things set up the way I want them to be. Smart Content already doesn't suit my workflow.

    As an honest paying customer I resent the implication that my concerns, or my workflow, are somehow shady or illegitimate.

    That has nothing to do with the encryption which is what I was responding to and the question I asked. 

    The question about moving files around has been covered on numerous occasions in this thread. 

  • jmperjmper Posts: 257

    So the encryption is not DRM?

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    jag11 said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

     http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/935860/#Comment_935860

    There is no worse blind man than the one who doesn't want to see. There is no worse deaf man than the want who doesn't want to hear. And there is no worse madman than the one who doesn't want to understand.

    There is no worse Company than...

     

    An example of hacking someone else's files. Note that given the encryption Content QA and the Published artists are aware that fixes, which are easier to send to you, the customers, should be looked at sooner. 

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    hphoenix said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    mjm said:
    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:
    Daikatana said:
    mjm said:

    I've read this entire discussion – people expressed many concerns about not being able to use the content library (as is the DAZ Studio Formats section) or to rearrange their files. But in my opinion, there is another, far more important and insidious problem. What if one day DAZ goes out of business or, for some reason, is no longer able to provide their services? It's not something we want to happen but nevertheless it's within the realms of possibility. What happens with all the content we bought? Since it's encrypted, it can't be used in other software. Even if someone creates an application meant to replace DAZ Studio, they won't be able to make it compatible with the encrypted content. So, in the end, we'll be left with gigabytes of unusable stuff that we paid quite a lot of money for. Now, this is a discussion that we've already had in the gaming industry – what if, say, Steam goes out of business? Valve said that they have contingencies in place should something like that happen and games would still be playable. And that brings me to my question – is DAZ going to give us a guarantee that they will provide us with a way to decrypt the content when they are no longer able to support their software/store?

    This is a main concern of mine as well.  I really wish someone at DAZ would chime in on this.

     

    DAZ_Jon addressed this concern here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/936241/#Comment_936241

     

    Fair enough, I must have missed that. Still, I'm not really on board with this entire DRM idea. I've been a gamer long enough to know that in the end it always hurts the honest, paying customers while pirates find a way around it.

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

     

    The real problem is that, until this is out beyond beta with DRM intact, we won't KNOW all the potential impacts, as many many users won't even be aware it is coming.  And when the ones who DO have some legitimate workflow/plugin/whatever reason that is sound beyond the 'I have seen DRM screw stuff up before' reasoning complain and point out how it impacts them, it will be too late to change it.

     

    The files that you can download through Daz Connect in the beta are available now. Try it and tell me the places where the DRM impacts your workflow. 

  • NathNath Posts: 2,848
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Nath said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    mjm said:
    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:
    Daikatana said:
    mjm said:

    I've read this entire discussion – people expressed many concerns about not being able to use the content library (as is the DAZ Studio Formats section) or to rearrange their files. But in my opinion, there is another, far more important and insidious problem. What if one day DAZ goes out of business or, for some reason, is no longer able to provide their services? It's not something we want to happen but nevertheless it's within the realms of possibility. What happens with all the content we bought? Since it's encrypted, it can't be used in other software. Even if someone creates an application meant to replace DAZ Studio, they won't be able to make it compatible with the encrypted content. So, in the end, we'll be left with gigabytes of unusable stuff that we paid quite a lot of money for. Now, this is a discussion that we've already had in the gaming industry – what if, say, Steam goes out of business? Valve said that they have contingencies in place should something like that happen and games would still be playable. And that brings me to my question – is DAZ going to give us a guarantee that they will provide us with a way to decrypt the content when they are no longer able to support their software/store?

    This is a main concern of mine as well.  I really wish someone at DAZ would chime in on this.

     

    DAZ_Jon addressed this concern here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/936241/#Comment_936241

     

    Fair enough, I must have missed that. Still, I'm not really on board with this entire DRM idea. I've been a gamer long enough to know that in the end it always hurts the honest, paying customers while pirates find a way around it.

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

    How about the point that we cannot rearrange the file structure? Now, I unzip to a temporary directory and copy things in to my runtime. This allows me to eliminate to me unnecessary layers of subdirectories, put content in the places where I can easily find it, and overall improve my workflow by having things set up the way I want them to be. Smart Content already doesn't suit my workflow.

    As an honest paying customer I resent the implication that my concerns, or my workflow, are somehow shady or illegitimate.

    That has nothing to do with the encryption which is what I was responding to and the question I asked. 

    The question about moving files around has been covered on numerous occasions in this thread. 

    As far as I can see it has been swept under the carpet, which I suppose counts as 'has been covered'. Unless it's on one of the pages I've missed, which is always a possibility, I haven't seen it actually addressed.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    captainklutz_a2ec859073 said:

    I think my earlier post got missed:

    Rather than having to do a complete re-install at each iteration, content, plug-ins etc., is it not possible just to patch an existing functional install from for example 4.8 to 4.9?

    Currently Daz Studio and Plug-ins for Daz Studio are not set up for patching. (For numerous design reasons, this is an intentional decision.) This may change as software is made available through Daz Connect. It also may not. A final decision has not been reached. 

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    jmper said:

    So the encryption is not DRM?

    Some have classified it as such. Whether it is or isn't, your links do not cover it. 

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,335
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    hphoenix said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    mjm said:
    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:
    Daikatana said:
    mjm said:

    I've read this entire discussion – people expressed many concerns about not being able to use the content library (as is the DAZ Studio Formats section) or to rearrange their files. But in my opinion, there is another, far more important and insidious problem. What if one day DAZ goes out of business or, for some reason, is no longer able to provide their services? It's not something we want to happen but nevertheless it's within the realms of possibility. What happens with all the content we bought? Since it's encrypted, it can't be used in other software. Even if someone creates an application meant to replace DAZ Studio, they won't be able to make it compatible with the encrypted content. So, in the end, we'll be left with gigabytes of unusable stuff that we paid quite a lot of money for. Now, this is a discussion that we've already had in the gaming industry – what if, say, Steam goes out of business? Valve said that they have contingencies in place should something like that happen and games would still be playable. And that brings me to my question – is DAZ going to give us a guarantee that they will provide us with a way to decrypt the content when they are no longer able to support their software/store?

    This is a main concern of mine as well.  I really wish someone at DAZ would chime in on this.

     

    DAZ_Jon addressed this concern here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/936241/#Comment_936241

     

    Fair enough, I must have missed that. Still, I'm not really on board with this entire DRM idea. I've been a gamer long enough to know that in the end it always hurts the honest, paying customers while pirates find a way around it.

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

     

    The real problem is that, until this is out beyond beta with DRM intact, we won't KNOW all the potential impacts, as many many users won't even be aware it is coming.  And when the ones who DO have some legitimate workflow/plugin/whatever reason that is sound beyond the 'I have seen DRM screw stuff up before' reasoning complain and point out how it impacts them, it will be too late to change it.

     

    The files that you can download through Daz Connect in the beta are available now. Try it and tell me the places where the DRM impacts your workflow. 

     

    I've edited DUF files to fix errors before.  There.  That impacts my workflow.

     

    But that isn't the point.  Whether or not it impacts ANYONE on the forums doesn't mean there aren't people that it WILL impact (aside from pirates.)  How much of the known downloads of DAZ (percentage-wise) are regular forum users?  Now how many of the Forum users also test Beta releases, percentage-wise?  I'm willing to be neither is a large percentage.

     

    You keep saying  you can't predict the future, but you are.  You are saying "No one will have any legitimate issues with our encryption DRM."  But until it is out of beta and people start running into those issues, you can't predict that!

     

  • DareshiranuDareshiranu Posts: 206
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    mjm said:
    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:
    Daikatana said:
    mjm said:

     

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

    It consumes resources, adds no value and adds a layer of unnecessary complexity to the software that will increase the likelyhood of bugs/errors cropping up. Anytime you add additional layers to a program that is the end result. The point is to do a cost/benefit analysis... Do the costs, antagonizing your user base and cludging up your software with no tangible benefits to the end-user justify the temporary moral victory over pirates. BTW, "The Cloud" doesn't work when your internet is out, but your computer still does. And most people even with high-speed internet are capped on data, so Cloud services are really not good unless you have unlimited bandwidth or unlimited money.

    Hey, a new conspiracy theory: The whole purpose of this is to jack up everybody's useage and make them pay for more gigs of downloads and DAZ is getting kickbacks! Heh!

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    Nath said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Nath said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    mjm said:
    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:
    Daikatana said:
    mjm said:

    I've read this entire discussion – people expressed many concerns about not being able to use the content library (as is the DAZ Studio Formats section) or to rearrange their files. But in my opinion, there is another, far more important and insidious problem. What if one day DAZ goes out of business or, for some reason, is no longer able to provide their services? It's not something we want to happen but nevertheless it's within the realms of possibility. What happens with all the content we bought? Since it's encrypted, it can't be used in other software. Even if someone creates an application meant to replace DAZ Studio, they won't be able to make it compatible with the encrypted content. So, in the end, we'll be left with gigabytes of unusable stuff that we paid quite a lot of money for. Now, this is a discussion that we've already had in the gaming industry – what if, say, Steam goes out of business? Valve said that they have contingencies in place should something like that happen and games would still be playable. And that brings me to my question – is DAZ going to give us a guarantee that they will provide us with a way to decrypt the content when they are no longer able to support their software/store?

    This is a main concern of mine as well.  I really wish someone at DAZ would chime in on this.

     

    DAZ_Jon addressed this concern here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/936241/#Comment_936241

     

    Fair enough, I must have missed that. Still, I'm not really on board with this entire DRM idea. I've been a gamer long enough to know that in the end it always hurts the honest, paying customers while pirates find a way around it.

    Other than "I can no longer hack someone else's files" I am still waiting for a practical, real (not hypothetical) way this encryption hurts the honest paying customer. 

    How about the point that we cannot rearrange the file structure? Now, I unzip to a temporary directory and copy things in to my runtime. This allows me to eliminate to me unnecessary layers of subdirectories, put content in the places where I can easily find it, and overall improve my workflow by having things set up the way I want them to be. Smart Content already doesn't suit my workflow.

    As an honest paying customer I resent the implication that my concerns, or my workflow, are somehow shady or illegitimate.

    That has nothing to do with the encryption which is what I was responding to and the question I asked. 

    The question about moving files around has been covered on numerous occasions in this thread. 

    As far as I can see it has been swept under the carpet, which I suppose counts as 'has been covered'. Unless it's on one of the pages I've missed, which is always a possibility, I haven't seen it actually addressed.

    Rather than coppying and pasting, and I appologize for that, I believe these cover it. 

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/932639/#Comment_932639

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/932651/#Comment_932651

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/933919/#Comment_933919

    There has been other things covering it, much of it has been speculation. 

This discussion has been closed.