Too many morphs or should I just give up on this?

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  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,926

    spearcarrier said:

    crosswind said:

    spearcarrier said:

    Yeah it's complicated but so far it's what's working. Everything else hasn't.

    No offense but you really don't have to go for that way at all. TBH, your workflow is a long detour. Why not go for the optimal way? If you found other methods did not work, most likely you did a wrong setup. (cut) ....If freezing l_thigh Bend dial on the Pants, let's say just for the corrective morph 'body_cbs_thigh_x90n_l', DS will add a formula to body_cbs_thigh_x90n_l.dsf, which will Push Value from the Pant's l_thigh Bend (Controller) to the corrective morph. However, the l_thigh bone on the Pants just Auto-Follows G9's l_thigh bone. Who will manually dial the thigh Bend on the Pants ?  So this Freeze and Controller is completely redundant, as well as the 'mid-layer' CTRLs on the pants. BTW, have you exprerienced any DS crash when ERC Freezing with some 'combo cbs'...?

    There's always best practice, but as Catherine said, people always have the methods of their own, as long as they can get the jobs done... Anyway, happy creating and happy rendering ! smiley

     

    Maybe I did a wrong set up. I don't know. It's likely. I only posted here because I'd reached the end of patience about it. A week, maybe a couple of days more, of me looking for answers with of course the only real thing I could find being a script that did all the thinking for me - and that's not exactly an answer to a question. Just a crutch. And it didn't quite work either.

    Of following tutorials step by step. Of doing just as you describe. And each time, I'd get to the complicated stage only to find that the more advanced morphs were overriding (and making messes of) the first morphs. I have rebuilt those pants a lot of times. I didn't exaggerate. So why skip ERC freeze when it clearly avoids 5x the work?

    Another point I have here is that I don't see my way as complicated at all. I see it as simplifying what could be messy later. Using ERC that releases me from doing a lot of work when I get to the more complicated bends, twists and turns. I just powered my way through every bend combination I could think of simply by dragging and dropping because I already had the controllers ERC frozen and ready to go. Back and forth pose testing has yielded no messes so far. I can't say it's going to hold to other tests, but it's better than it was.

    Third amused point. I sometimes manually pose my clothing. I'm a comic book artist. Sometimes there are things I just want a piece of clothing to do. I've seen other artists post in places how frustrated they are trying to pose things so those pants could drop to the floor properly. Posing your clothing is not a thing of the past.

    Yeah, people have methods of their own. I'm very glad you guys participated in this thread, because without the brainstorm I think I'd be rebuilding those pants for a 7th time right now. D'you know I've been pulling allnighters on them. LOL

    Yeah, at all events, I can understand what you suffered from the course of getting these done. I won't babble more on this topic. Pls just take it easy. Things will be getting better and better.

    As for CTRLMD, after some experiment, I understood that if using 2nd Stage ERC control for 'combo rotation',  controller(s) with Value of 100% (1)  must be needed for Multiply, Bend / Side-Side / Twist with value of Degrees could not be directly used. G9 has four build-in CTRLMD on Thighs. You may directly use them rather than creating CTRLMD on Thigh bones of the pants, especially for 'combo rotations' on different axes.

  • I've looked at the CtrlMD's a bit and tried them. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes it didn't. I will probably futz with them more in the future. There has to be a reason DAZ set the script to pull on them.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,926

    spearcarrier said:

    I've looked at the CtrlMD's a bit and tried them. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes it didn't. I will probably futz with them more in the future. There has to be a reason DAZ set the script to pull on them.

    I rarely encounter ERC's strike but crash sometimes when Freezing. Which version do you use?

    BTW, recommend a tutorial as below, you may take a look if you'd like... https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/81207

  • I use the Beta Pro mostly. I also have 32 bit, but it's frustratingly weird. I can run the 32 bit public release, but not the 32 bit Beta release. It will crash.

    I can run the 64 bit Beta release, but not the public release. It will crash.

    And ... well.... I need all four to run, actually. I'd have each version dedicated to a specific thing I do, pointing to specific libraries, and set up certain ways.

    With ERCs I'm gathering there's just times you'd better not ERC, even if the option is there.

    Just pulled another nighter, but I'm pretty far along. I backed up to get rid of some early morphs that were just cluttering up things.

    Another problem has come up. There are three vertices areas that... want to stick. Importing a morph straight is fine. Reversing by X makes them poke out. And draping? hahahahah. Not with these rebellious vertices!

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,926

    Oh, just try to check and fix each rotation if there's distortion / poke-thru or sth.  I use Blender to sculpt most of the time, and you ? No need to make them 100% perfect. cbs + dForce with optimal settings, that'll be fine.

  • Yes, i use Blender. It's behaving now, but I had closed it and then reopened it. It may just need to be rebooted.

  • If the end result that you are seeking is to have a pair of pants that are actually just like the figure [with regards to all the morphs, etc.] there is a much easier method. One can make clothing items [at least for themselves] using Geoshells.

    For real mesh clothing, one tends to put in the basic pJCMs, some FBMs, and then a few extras for additional fit control.

  • Using geoshells kind of reminds me of a fancy way of basically doing the old painted on clothing textures from way back, way back, when dinosaurs roamed the PCs. (And for me something always goes wrong with them.)  I use them for outlining in my cartooning, and for making hair look more volumous.

    These pants I wanted to have wrinkles. That's why the morphs. Also, it's been a learning experience. I intend to go back and take this knowledge to update some characters when I'm finally done with these monsters.

  • When we were all first discovering the wonders of JCMs and how to make pJCMs in the clothing, for pants I figured the easiest solution would be to paint them on ... yes, just like was done a long way back now with the early Vickies. Geoshells were a later development which added to the options for many things from make-up to skin mixing, etc. as well as clothing types esp. for items such as stockings. I don't usually make geoshells however I did this morning just to verify a workflow and yes, we can make new UV sets for the clothing Geoshells. [at least for use in D/S].

     

     

     

     

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,926
    edited September 2023

    I'm with Catherine if that's the go. If OP wanna have morphs and wrinkles, shell pants can give you great results with no doubt, 'cause it's just a 'second skin'. You can make morphs on it's parent and paint various wrinkles on its texture maps.

    And you never need to fix pbm / fbm / bs ... pjcm / cbs blah blah blah on it. No distortion, no poke-thru...

     

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • crosswind said:

    I'm with Catherine if that's the go. If OP wanna have morphs and wrinkles, shell pants can give you great results with no doubt, 'cause it's just a 'second skin'. You can make morphs on it's parent and paint various wrinkles on its texture maps.

    And you never need to fix pbm / fbm / bs ... pjcm / cbs blah blah blah on it. No distortion, no poke-thru...

     That was fast! And beautifully puts into existence what I was trying to figure out how to say with words.

    By the by, over at places like ArtStation there are numerous cloth wrinkle brushes and texturing images available [free and for sale]. As well as wrinkles, zippers, buttons and all kinds of things can be added via texturing one way or another. The other way being by adding in mesh to the clothing in a modeller and then baking out textures to apply in D/S.

     

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,926
    edited September 2023
    ...

     That was fast! And beautifully puts into existence what I was trying to figure out how to say with words.

    By the by, over at places like ArtStation there are numerous cloth wrinkle brushes and texturing images available [free and for sale]. As well as wrinkles, zippers, buttons and all kinds of things can be added via texturing one way or another. The other way being by adding in mesh to the clothing in a modeller and then baking out textures to apply in D/S.

     

    Indeed, ho ho ho~~ yes I got quite a lot free brushes as well. And, by using its parent or even the shell itself to sculpt wrinkles or whatever, NM / DISP maps could be baked with different LOD, as you wish.

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • spearcarrierspearcarrier Posts: 686
    edited September 2023

    Those look pretty nice!!

    Geoshells are definitely very useful, especially if you have the ability to paint seamlessly to get the right effect. (I cannot do that yet. Attempts to learn in Blender have failed.)  Those "pants" look a little tight, though. Great for leggings. I'd have to ask you to change your clothes if you came into the office like that. ;-) 

    However, there's a particular mermaid tail that uses geoshells. I got it and found it very very hard to work with. 

    Yes, I like the geoshells best for cartoon outlining. (The manga shaders were a real break through for me.) I've seen them for makeup as well, and that's a neat idea except I like using resources and saving the skin that's created for later use.

    Now those wrinkles, would they show up as an actual wrinkle using pwtoon without the use of bump/distortion if you turn the model to the side? Or posed it differently?

    I once tried to drape a goeshell for giggles. That ended very badly. LOL!

    Post edited by spearcarrier on
  • Oh you may like this Ukrainian program: 3DCoat Textura  It's shaved out from their 3DCoat [the modeller]. Has an interesting 30 day free trial/unlimited learning license. Non-commercial use unless purchased of course.

  • Oooh, that looks niiiice. (Although my computer probably can't handle it. Long story short: I has a stronger one. We thought the board went pffft. My brother bought me a gift, but didn't listen when I tried to tell him what was required for 3D work. He stated his work with AI took more than 3D and what he was giving me was perfect for AI. I'm thankful, but also frustrated. LOL. The stupid monitor keeps FLASHING. AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

     

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    HHHHHHAHAHAHA

    ah)

    I"m glad they have unlimited learning, because there's no way I'd be able to look at it more than once or twice in 30 days. But I'm going to see what it has to offer. I *have* been looking for a way to paint for a long time. I've never found anything that worked as good as...t hat old program from generation 3 models. 

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