Cthog Poser Figure test request

EldritchCellar

Lol. I like. I was thinking a robotic/organic/alien walker body, kinda want to concentrate on head options at this point though. I kinda see it along the lines of the giant floating head in the Wizard of Oz (or similar floating heads throughout history, lol.)... here's part of my inspiration if anyone is interested_ https://2warpstoneptune.wordpress.com/2014/10/24/john-holmes-h-p-lovecraft-covers-1975-ballantine/

EldritchCellar

Try to think outside the box when using it, I personally am not that interested in human figures... I like all the robots, animals, and monster figures. I rarely render conventional depictions of humans...

EldritchCellar

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EldritchCellar

I'm curious to see someone render the head with just straight procedural materials and get a little creative with the morphs. You could very easily create a shiney black plastic Darth Vader/ tentacled Sith Lord/ robotic monster head with some of the shaping morphs. My next render and perhaps add on for it will be something along those lines... smart props and etching mechanical detail displacements I think.

SixDs

Well, not exactly what you were asking for, but here's a DAZ Studio/3Delight render where I was playing with the morphs and displacement.

EldritchCellar

Dude, awesome! Really 'From Beyond'. I notice that the texture seams are showing in DS. I can only comment they don't show in Poser unless some kind of texture filtering is being applied to the maps. Wouldn't know how to resolve this in DS. Also, I'm just guessing that my morph limits didn't propegate to DS. How did you manage to inflate the gums or shrink the teeth? I didnt include any morphs for that...

EldritchCellar

Also, displacement in DS seems to be 'ballooning' the mesh. In poser this is resolved with a math subtract node included in the material presets (as discussed in the ReadMe), again, something I wouldn't be able to resolve in DS. I'd just like to point out that any of my comments are in no way a critique of DS, I don't know enough about it to have any kind of bias one way or the other. It's simply that this figure was set up with very specific requirements for use in Poser in terms of limits and displacement, things I can't address in DS. I'd hate to think that my figure would be considered dysfunctional when in a strange land. I know for a certainty that everything works as intended in Poser.

SixDs

Well, my own opinion would be that the lack of preset limts on the poses/morphs or the displacement effects does not diminish the model's utility. It simply means that the user is in control and must recognize that less is sometimes more. The seams are an issue, but I haven't delved too deeply into the textures or shaders, so at this point I haven't a solution. Again, as long as we're having fun ... :)

Oh, and as for the gums, that's purely the displacement again. I could dial it back, of course, but he's still just got his baby teeth! The teeth are the same size, they just got swallowed by the swollen gums. The displacement is actually a lot of fun to play with, as is.

EldritchCellar

Ok. Just as long as you know that areas of the mesh are being displaced that contain no displacement data in the map. In other words something is seriously wrong with the displacement settings, especially since the gums don't even have a displacement map! Lol. Final analysis... Poser Figure not compatible as intended in DS. Fun is fun though. As an analogy to an elephant in the room I suppose I could fudge around with a busted Genesis 3 in poser, that doesn't mean that Genesis 3 is Poser compatible. Get what I'm saying?

mjc1016

EldritchCellar said:

Ok. Just as long as you know that areas of the mesh are being displaced that contain no displacement data in the map. In other words something is seriously wrong with the displacement settings, especially since the gums don't even have a displacement map! Lol. Final analysis... Poser Figure not compatible as intended in DS. Fun is fun though. As an analogy to an elephant in the room I suppose I could fudge around with a busted Genesis 3 in poser, that doesn't mean that Genesis 3 is Poser compatible. Get what I'm saying?

Not...just because the materials aren't the same doesn't mean it isn't compatible.

The 'ballooning' is a common problem...with the maps. 

EldritchCellar

They're standard Zbrush displacement maps that work fine in Poser. How is there a problem with them?

EldritchCellar

Anyway, thanks guys. I think I've figured out everything I needed to know here. Appreciated.

EldritchCellar

Just as a final aside, if there's a problem with my displacement maps, how do you explain my renders that use those maps (in Poser, a Poser figure, for use in Poser 6+, not tested in Daz studio, as stated in DL description and documentation) and yield the same results as the original sculpt in Zbrush? Lol. The only reason I started this thread was as a friendly query, considering that a DS user (Calie/Sea80) came into a thread started by myself, on the Rendo Poser Forum, relating to the figure and stated " tried in ds, easypose doesn't work. Might be my fault" and did a similar thing on my figure download page. "Might be my fault" indeed. I take my work very seriously and have had no complaints from Poser users, probably because I use Poser and never indicated anywhere that this was DS compatible. "...With the maps." Yeah ok, and I've got magical render powers. Officially yours, Insulted. https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2895337&page_number=1

Faeryl Womyn

I wasn't trying to insult you. I never indicated you claimed it worked in Daz. I just thought it would be great if it worked in Daz as well as Poser and gave it a try.  It was my fault I couldn't get the poses to work and had nothing to do with your work.  As for the displacement maps, I never noticed a problem, and the only thing I can say about how they work in Daz compared to Poser or ZBrush is that different programs bring about different results.  The fact Daz people have a problem in no way disparages your work.  As you said, you never claimed it worked in Daz.

WendyLuvsCatz

I have not tried it yet in Carrara but see from that thread as I expected ERC etc will not work there

I am used to that with most things, again a difference in how Carrara handles stuff, not a fault

iClone will do different stuff again

The spring bones on the tentacles could be interesting

is just lucky Poser and Zbrush use the same displacement parameters and system because Carrara and DS displacement are not even compatible with each other, Carrara closer to Poser but still not the same, I am used to tweaking stuff and look forward to trying your head out as it fits my taste in creatures nicely.

EldritchCellar

Thank you JaguarElla, I tested in Carrara 8.2. The easy posing sliders needed ridiculously high values (something like 1000/1 comparison to values in Poser). Strange, because I'll be uploading another EasyPose figure, a Rigged giant grass blade (52 bones), later tonight to ShareCG that I've tested in Carrara and it works fine. It has much simpler materials, just texture and bump, so it should work in DS too. I wish my Cthog figure worked as I intended in DS, but alas. I suppose it's something I should worry about if I ever decide to try vendoring, but I think people would be less inclined to try using something in DS that says "only tested in Poser" if they were paying for it. It all is rather upsetting to me. I'm going to try and learn DS when I get a newer computer.

mjc1016

It's the way Studio handles the gamma correction.  If the header info in the image isn't specifically set to greyscale, then it's assumed to be RGB and can be corrected.  This can lead to double correcting the maps, which would make them way too 'light'...so what was mid-grey is now light grey.  It even happens to products from the store.   Certain control maps are supposed to automatically be set to 'no correction', but that seems to be hit or miss.  While the maps may be fine, elsewhere, it just means they need special handling in Studio, at least until materials presets are saved.  The good news is that once set and saved as a preset, that info is passed with the preset.

Easypose is working fine...the only complaint, if it can be one, is there are too many morphs/dials in this...it takes a couple of times through to find and play with all of them. 

I've got a render running with displacement that is working perfectly, after double checking the settings on the maps.  I have the displacement cranked very high on this to try to see if I could induce ballooning....after the maps were correctly set.  As you can see, it isn't...

And there are several mixes of the pose dials...

WendyLuvsCatz

Eldritch Cellar, have you tried DS4+ yet?

I am a Carrara user simply because DS 3 crashed on my old laptop repeatedly too, Carrara and Poser did not.

Once I got a decent desktop I learnt to use DS too.

however I found this year DS4 actually ran ok on it (the old laptop) within reason, still had limitations, it was my integrated intel graphics at fault DS hates no separate graphics card.

EldritchCellar

No, I'm on an old pre intel Power Mac G5, if it weren't for keeping up with all the constant changes (pbr, weightmapping, etc,) I would be perfectly happy. I just model what I make with my limitations in mind. So far, so good. I use Carrara 8.2, Zbrush 2, Wings3d, and Poser 8. I really just want to make props and unusual non human figures/robots, so all of the recent advances in software haven't effected my creative spark much. Carrara's 3D painting tools are a godsend. MJC1016, that looks perfect! Wish you had posted that sooner. Now I'm embarrassed, exactly what I wanted to see. :)

mjc1016

I"ve been in the middle of a bunch of other renders...I'll be getting around to getting some presets done, soon.

EldritchCellar

Thank you, I'd really appreciate something like that. I know you keep pretty busy on the content creation front judging by your portfolio. :)

WendyLuvsCatz

I had a lot of issues in Iclone as he is just a head and had to conform to a body to retarget which mucked up other stuff

got him in eventually but needs work

anyway I could use the spring bone function and exported a bvh of it which works in Poser etc

 

EldritchCellar

Hi JaguarElla, really interested to see what you've done. It'll have to wait until late tonight when I get home as your attached says 'plug in not supported' on my mobile device. I would like to create some simple animations (not that experienced of an animator) myself. I'm aware that animation is a specialty of yours... Looking forward, and an in depth reply forthcoming tonight. :)

EldritchCellar

Holy crap JaguarElla, thats really shocking! Not the kind of motion I expected to see at all, very flowy? Fluid? Anyway that's pretty darned cool. There's a big difference once you see something in motion, I woulda been happy if I managed to make it have Gumby style movement, lol. Please do keep experimenting with Cthog! :D

 

EldritchCellar

Oh yeah JaguarElla, I guess that's Cthog's 15 minutes.Lol. Did you do that with the IK?

WendyLuvsCatz

No that is using iClone spring bones that sadly will penetrate the head if you are not careful, I exported the animation as a bvh for Poser.

I brought him into iClone as a prop and translated him to get that motion on the tentacles, I deleted the translation keys in Poser afterwards

I found him too hard to use in iClone otherwise as he has no body so would need to add bones to use him in there as a figure as iAvatars have to have certain bones in order to use morphs in expression editor, 

I roughly did it conforming him to a figure but it did odd stuff to his eyes, would need to rename his bones to prevent that, is doable but a bit of work.

SlimerJSpud

The easy pose worked for me. I'm using DS3. I kind of imagined it in a jar or like one of those floating head things from Zardoz. Lol! Parenting to a headless body makes it more conventional. I didn't find a way to make the mandibles open wider. Is there a dial for that? MechMouth just seems to open the outer mouth parts. I'd like it if the teeth could open up to eat some unfortunate creature...

EldritchCellar

Hi SlimerJSpud. Mechmouth is just a shaping morph to give the mouth a mechanical or robotic look. If you look under the control morphs you will see LipsPart, which opens just the lips. MouthOpen opens both the lips and teeth, also there is a group of morphs titled Mandibles_XTran that lets you control the opening and closing of each of the 4 sets of teeth, located under 'MouthParts control'. Are all of my morph groups and controls categorized in expandable groups in DS (as they are in Poser)? I spent a lot of time organizing and placing the morphs and controls in labeled categories, I hope that DS hasn't arbitrarily dumped all those dials in some random fashion, that would be a complete mess. The groups in Poser are as follows: Control MouthParts_Control Shapes Cranium CraniumAdjust Face_Upper Face_UpperAdjust Face_Lower ******************** Control morphs/ERC control facial movement or expressions, Shapes deal with the shaping morphs. Without this organization I'd say using this would be a disorganized wreck. Lol, hope those groups are being shown in DS.

EldritchCellar

Did I make this thing too complicated for casual users?

WendyLuvsCatz

yeah DS dumps them all together for me

Carrara has them in a tree group