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PC Sales Plummet: Prices to follow

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  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    edited April 2013

    daveleitz68 said:
    Gedd, you seem like a smart fellow. You've apparently read Le Guin's Earthsea after all, so that must be the case! :)

    Ooh, does reading Ursula Le Guin’s Earthsea trilogy make one smart. I had better get it out and read it again, will that make me smarter?

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • daveleitzdaveleitz Posts: 459
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    Dave, they are not accusations and insinuations. Just because I didn't inundate you with links does not mean these are one person's opinion. I simply posted the *one* I thought most relevant. You obviously seem to be resistant to this as you responded without doing the minimal research that would clarify these statements as fact. I don't have a problem with you not worrying about privacy. I do object to your minimalizing facts as 'accusation' and 'insinuations.' Do research, state facts.. *do not* dismiss without doing research as if the other side was just a nutter as that is a disservice to everyone. This isn't my feeling about this particular topic, this is my feeling towards an approach to life.

    I do appreciate you bringing up this issue, although I think we've gone a bit off topic. Sorry guys and gals. ;)

    You're right, though. I am resistant. I haven't read up on this topic before, and it is important to know the facts. If you have links to any technical articles about the issue at hand, I would be pleased to read them.

  • daveleitzdaveleitz Posts: 459
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    daveleitz68 said:
    Gedd, you seem like a smart fellow. You've apparently read Le Guin's Earthsea after all, so that must be the case! :)

    Ooh, does reading Ursula Le Guin’s Earthsea trilogy make one smart. I had better get it out and read it again, will that make me smarter?

    You've only read the Trilogy?? ;)

  • daveleitzdaveleitz Posts: 459
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    As a side note, just because someone prefers more privacy doesn't mean they are doing anything criminal or underhanded, they often just have a different comfort zone, and that shouldn't be minimalized either.

    I apologize. I certainly did not mean to imply anything like that. And I do value privacy as well, but perhaps in a different way than you. In fact that was a major reason for dumping Windows XP a few years ago. I only connect with Windows 7 to get the updates every couple of weeks.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,291
    edited December 1969

    daveleitz68 said:
    chohole said:
    daveleitz68 said:
    Gedd, you seem like a smart fellow. You've apparently read Le Guin's Earthsea after all, so that must be the case! :)

    Ooh, does reading Ursula Le Guin’s Earthsea trilogy make one smart. I had better get it out and read it again, will that make me smarter?

    You've only read the Trilogy?? ;)

    it is a trilogy - in five parts (plus a collection of short stories).

  • Norse GraphicsNorse Graphics Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    If Ubunte sends every keystroke to some outside party, then it will kill the entire operating system. Think about usernames and passwords keylogged and sent outside your home. It's a hackers dream come true. All they need is to break into the servers of Canonical...

  • chaoschaos Posts: 44
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    daveleitz68 said:
    chohole said:
    daveleitz68 said:
    Gedd, you seem like a smart fellow. You've apparently read Le Guin's Earthsea after all, so that must be the case! :)

    Ooh, does reading Ursula Le Guin’s Earthsea trilogy make one smart. I had better get it out and read it again, will that make me smarter?

    You've only read the Trilogy?? ;)

    it is a trilogy - in five parts (plus a collection of short stories).

    Actually reading anything should make you smarter. Anything cognative you do should. Your brain continuelly rewires itself to facilitate repeated processes. They did a study of three groups of college students shooting free throws. One group practiced free throws 30 minutes each day, one group sat in the gym and visualized making free throws 30 minutes each day and the third group didn't do anything involving free throws or the gym. At the end of the week the group that had practiced was the best by far but the group that had visualized the action was 37% better then the group that had no exposure. The conclusion drawn was that the brian was making the connections to facilitate the throws just by people imagining the activity. If that is correct then reading anything would make your brain work and rewire itself in multiple directions. I think I will retire to my room and visualize making flawlessy rendered, amazing scenes. I tried imagining myself with washboard abs and a super model for a dinner companion after reading about the study. That didn't work. I hope the art fantasy turns out better.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,198
    edited December 1969

    LeatherGryphon said:
    HeraldOfFire said:
    Khory said:
    But the concept that people are afraid/unwilling to get a new computer because of a new verson of the OS boggles my mind.
    Now that I'm in agreement with. Even if you hate the OS you can always just install Windows 7 on it instead, so you can't put the blame for decreasing PC sales solely on Win8.

    Though I wonder if those statistics include components...

    I purpose built my machine. I chose the hard drives, the memory, the motherboard, the case. Every last component that went into my machine was hand picked to deliver the best performance for the best price for me. I'm sure I'm not alone, so perhaps people are wising up and building their systems rather than paying for copy-pasted pre-made ones .

    Remember that you are in a small pool of people who understand how to do that. Your world is teeny tiny as compared with the number of casual users, even among most of the people in this forum.

    The quote in an earlier post saying that Win8 is software for "consumption" not "production" is spot on. The vast sea of the computer buying public want appliances, not instruments. A toaster, not a cyclotron. I saw this coming a decade ago and am surprised that it took so long to mature. People would ask me whether they should get a computer with 500GB instead of 250GB, when all they really needed was 60GB for how they used the machine.
    ...when I purchased my notebook that had an 80GB HD 6 years ago, I never thought I'd ever fill it. Two and a half years later I was finding myself burning installers & such to DVDs to recover space for new content. After that drive died in 2009, I installed a 320GB HD. I now have less than 25% free space left as it has sort of become an archive for my workstation after I discovered several of the DVD backups had become corrupted.

    LeatherGryphon said:
    True, the community in this forum has learned to covet piles of RAM and warehouses of storage but there are probably more aspiring basketball players than there are aspiring 3D artists, and the room at the top is just as small. The 3D community is not going to save the PC market.
    ...sadly, I agree.

    The gamers, the addicted gamers will pay anything to feed their addiction so again, they will not keep the prices down.

    The casual tweensy gamer tots will stick to their laptops or latest tablet gizmo until the first child arrives at which point the wife "accidentally" knocks the game tablet in the toilet. Game over!


    ...lol

    The businesses use software that requires lots of info on the screen, many fields to fill out, many click boxes to check, and lots of typing. but again they will pay what's necessary to keep their businesses running, regardless of how the price keeps floating upward.


    ...as I mentioned before, that is what the company I recently worked for has been doing. I had the same box under my desk that I had eight years ago.

    Loss of the ubiquitous home computer box will free the manufacturers to relegate that product to the secondary assembly line and slap whatever price they think they can get away with for the few who really need it.

    Nope, "big iron" PC towers* in the home will soon be as quaint as great-great grandma's Victrola.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Talking_Machine_Company
    ...which is why when I settled on the components in my build I went for the best I could get. This baby has to last and has been designed with upgrading in mind.

    Please don't think I approve of this development. I'm just calling it like I see it. If I had my 'druthers (and lots of money), I'd 'druther have a Xerox Sigma5 or PDP11 or IBM1130 in my basement to tinker with in my last days.
    http://www.computerhistory.org/VirtualVisibleStorage/artifact_frame.php?tax_id=03.02.03.00
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1130

    * I hope you realize how ironic it is for a computing pioneer to be talking about PCs as "big iron" (Oy!)


    ...I hear you on that. I "cut my programming teeth" on a Burroughs 6700.

    http://www.computermuseum.li/Testpage/Burroughs-6700-DP-System.htm

    ...moved on to a PDP-11 and after that, a Data General MV10000. The first PCs I encountered were the IBM-AT with a whopping 4 Megs of RAM in the business lab. Finally there was the "new" Macintosh II" the first full colour machine which we had four of in the Mac lab. The first computer I owned was a 16gHz 286 with a 20MB HDD, 2 MB RAM and dual 5.75 floppy drives which I bought surplus from the development company I worked for.

    I still have it.

  • lexbairdlexbaird Posts: 168
    edited December 1969

    TheWheelMan said:

    Windows 8, no matter what all you haters say, is not remotely bad, horrible, or the worst UI ever. It's just not intuitive to a lot of people, although admittedly, it should have been given more flexibility so that the Metro touchscreen interface was optional.

    A USER INTERFACE that is not intuitive to USERS is by definition a bad user interface. A tool needs to be usable to function, and the most powerful widget cog-grinder in the universe is useless if you can't find the controls or make them work.

  • Norse GraphicsNorse Graphics Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    My first computer was a laptop I bought in the mid 90's. It had a 486-SX33 processor, 4 Megabytes of memory, a 120 MB Hard drive, and ran Windows on it I think. It wasn't an Apple computer. I gave it to my sister later on after I bought a desktop computer for better performance.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,198
    edited December 1969

    ...scary to think that the HDD on my first system would barely be large enough to hold the installer for the M4 morphs.

  • Norse GraphicsNorse Graphics Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...scary to think that the HDD on my first system would barely be large enough to hold the installer for the M4 morphs.

    :lol:

  • chaoschaos Posts: 44
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...scary to think that the HDD on my first system would barely be large enough to hold the installer for the M4 morphs.

    I can remember buying my first floppy drive, 144k 5 1/2" for an Apple II. It cost $695 but was so much better then the tape drive it replaced. Those disks would hold one image. I used a board type thing, hinged arm with a potentiometer, to enter lines and dots for graphics. I did a Frazetta type image for a local graphics contest, ok for only 4 colors and bit mapping. Everyone liked it, I felt ten feet ten tall, then the top local computer guru asked "Can you make her turn around so we can see the front?" Fame is so short lived. Still it was a start.
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    I actually had a handheld computer that had a port for a cassette tape for storage, from back in the 70's. It only ran basic, and had very limited functionality but it was small clam shell design. I've never seen another version of it.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 11,648
    edited April 2013

    "Seven ways to bring back the PC"

    http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/gadgetbox/7-ways-bring-back-pc-1C9319686

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,172
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...scary to think that the HDD on my first system would barely be large enough to hold the installer for the M4 morphs.

    I supported 4 order entry, 3 billing, and 2 programming CRT terminals on a Burroughs medium system (B 3700) that had 350 KB (yes, Kilobytes) of main memory and 100 MB (yes, Megabytes) of disk space for three years. And the disk subsystem was 4 feet tall, 4 feet deep, and 20 feet long. The disks were 42 inches in diameter, half an inch thick, and each set of 4 (four sets) had it's own 240 volt 3 horsepower motor to spin them. We also ran payroll and program tests while the on-line systems were up.

    My first PC setup cost $6,000, including 2 single-side 5.25 inch floppy drives with 160 KB capacity at $540 each and an Epson MX-1000 dot-matrix printer that cost $1000. The PC had 64 KB on the mother board and another 128 KB on an add-on board (original IBM PC). Interestingly enough, I ran the IBM scientific subroutine package tests on this system - and without a numeric co-processor the PC was twice as fast and just as accurate as an IBM 360/40.

    I really miss all the blinking front-panel lights of the old IBM and Honeywell gear. But I think my current PC eats less electricity than just the lights on the old systems . . .

  • rwhunt99rwhunt99 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Been a Computer tech for twenty years, I must say Win8 is another Vista. Microsoft is trying to force us to use metro but you can still get out of it by getting an app that gets you back to the start screen. If it wasn't for the goofy interface, it would be a great OS. Although that said, everything takes the long way around to do the same thing you could do before in less key strokes. I suspect that the next go around will bring back the start menu (it is still there, you just have to work a bit more to use it.) . Truthfully, Microsoft is working itself out of a job, each generation of he OS makes it likely to be the last, no one really needs to upgrade OS's. 87% of corporations are still using XP. Microsoft can't make a decent OS, they can't make a decent phone, they can't make a decent anything, rumor has it they are screwing up the Xbox too, I think they will be in trouble soon. They have never really explained why their office suite is so darned expensive, they could charge 75% less and still make a profit.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,198
    edited April 2013

    ...well you see Paul Allen, still has to pay off the bills on the EMP in Seattle, the Rose Garden in Portland (as well as the property taxes) and foot the payrolls for those two loser teams he owns, the SeaSquawks and the JailBlazers.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    edited December 1969

    I jumped from XP to 7 and will probably (if everything follows the pattern from before) jump to 9.
    When they straighten out the misbehaviour of 8 and use the improvements, 9 might be great.

    And Khory: I don't like being called an old fart ... just because you like W8 doesn't mean you can downtalk on those that don't.
    It's not nice to have to put somebody on ignore and pondering whether to report that person.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 11,648
    edited April 2013

    I kind of like calling myself an old fart. I waited years to become an old fart and I'm milking it for all it's worth!

    Yeah, I pay extra for the mobile cart at Disneyworld but I love honking the horn & watching the gawkers scatter*. And a cane turns out to be a good weapon and easy way to intrude myself into the line or snatch a seat before some empty headed tweeny texter sits there.

    And I can bore the bartender with tales of the old days along with the best of 'em.

    And nothing beats kvetching about how youth is wasted on the young.

    When you realize that the light at the end of the tunnel is a train, your priorities change.

    * Watching the gawkers scatter has been a favorite activity of mine for years. Back in the day when I was alive, I was a leather clad bodybuilder with Mohawk haircut before they were popular. Walking through the airports that way, the oncoming people would create a wide path around me. Little knowing that I was really an intellectual teddybear. Now I'm just a little squirrelly and a bit sadistic. Mu ah ha ha...

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • thd777thd777 Posts: 943
    edited December 1969

    LeatherGryphon said:
    I kind of like calling myself an old fart. I waited years to become an old fart and I'm milking it for all it's worth!

    Yeah, I pay extra for the mobile cart at Disneyworld but I love honking the horn & watching the gawkers scatter*. And a cane turns out to be a good weapon and easy way to intrude myself into the line or snatch a seat before some empty headed tweeny texter sits there.

    And I can bore the bartender with tales of the old days along with the best of 'em.

    And nothing beats kvetching about how youth is wasted on the young.

    When you realize that the light at the end of the tunnel is a train, your priorities change.

    * Watching the gawkers scatter has been a favorite activity of mine for years. Back in the day when I was alive, I was a leather clad bodybuilder with Mohawk haircut before they were popular. Walking through the airports that way, the oncoming people would create a wide path around me. Little knowing that I was really an intellectual teddybear. Now I'm just a little squirrelly and a bit sadistic. Mu ah ha ha...

    Did I ever tell you that I love your posts? One of the few things to keep coming to the forums. You should publish a collection as an ebook.
    Keep on posting!
    Ciao
    TD

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 11,648
    edited April 2013

    thd777 said:
    LeatherGryphon said:
    I kind of like calling myself an old fart. I waited years to become an old fart and I'm milking it for all it's worth!

    Yeah, I pay extra for the mobile cart at Disneyworld but I love honking the horn & watching the gawkers scatter*. And a cane turns out to be a good weapon and easy way to intrude myself into the line or snatch a seat before some empty headed tweeny texter sits there.

    And I can bore the bartender with tales of the old days along with the best of 'em.

    And nothing beats kvetching about how youth is wasted on the young.

    When you realize that the light at the end of the tunnel is a train, your priorities change.

    * Watching the gawkers scatter has been a favorite activity of mine for years. Back in the day when I was alive, I was a leather clad bodybuilder with Mohawk haircut before they were popular. Walking through the airports that way, the oncoming people would create a wide path around me. Little knowing that I was really an intellectual teddybear. Now I'm just a little squirrelly and a bit sadistic. Mu ah ha ha...

    Did I ever tell you that I love your posts? One of the few things to keep coming to the forums. You should publish a collection as an ebook.
    Keep on posting!
    Ciao
    TD

    (*blush*) Aw shucks folks.

    I began to express my inner self when I recognized that my heroes were Don Rickles and Ebenezer Scrooge before he was corrupted by those ghosts.

    And I'm even beginning to look like Don Rickles. It comes with being an old fart.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDGYApAUErU

    Unfortunately I'm afraid your opinion is only one side of the coin. I'm sure there are others here who view me as a vicious snot. But I bet they aren't fans of my heroes either.

    Thanks for at least one person who doesn't have me on "ignore". 8-o

    My reason for coming here is to catch another Socratease gem.

    And as for assembling my posts into a book..., I've thought about it but I'm afraid DAZ changed forums so they could get rid of all my old wisdom. However, I have kept the best of my musings, rants, and pendanticisms in a disorganized folder on my computer so maybe someday....

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • Norse GraphicsNorse Graphics Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    http://superuser.com/questions/49549/when-are-we-going-128-bit-how-it-will-be-what-gets-better

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,198
    edited December 1969

    LeatherGryphon said:
    I kind of like calling myself an old fart. I waited years to become an old fart and I'm milking it for all it's worth!

    Yeah, I pay extra for the mobile cart at Disneyworld but I love honking the horn & watching the gawkers scatter*. And a cane turns out to be a good weapon and easy way to intrude myself into the line or snatch a seat before some empty headed tweeny texter sits there.

    And I can bore the bartender with tales of the old days along with the best of 'em.

    And nothing beats kvetching about how youth is wasted on the young.

    When you realize that the light at the end of the tunnel is a train, your priorities change.

    * Watching the gawkers scatter has been a favorite activity of mine for years. Back in the day when I was alive, I was a leather clad bodybuilder with Mohawk haircut before they were popular. Walking through the airports that way, the oncoming people would create a wide path around me. Little knowing that I was really an intellectual teddybear. Now I'm just a little squirrelly and a bit sadistic. Mu ah ha ha...


    ...right on.

    Now if only our stupid transit agency would stop raising the minimum age for old fart fares just when I'm about to qualify for them each time, I'd be fine.

    It used to be 55, then 58, then 61, and now they raised it to 64. Bleedn' think they know it all whippersnappers (who earn 6 digit paycheques).

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    and they keep lowering the age for full fares :)

  • DestinysGardenDestinysGarden Posts: 2,550
    edited April 2013

    namffuak said:
    Another factor has got to be diminished corporate purchases.


    Agreed. My company is phasing out desktop computers completely and moving on to a tiny box that will be a connection to the company's network. All job related applications are hosted on the network and any employee can access their network account from any station. The IT guys love it because they no longer have to schlep around towers and reimage them when someone leaves or joins the company.

    Rashad Carter said:
    Cool thread. I've enjoyed reading it so far.

    But I am very troubled by what this could mean to the 3d hobbyist like myself. For example, for a long time the idea was to make a cell phone as small as possible. Nowadays they seem to be getting physically larger, which makes sense since these devices need large displays for the increased imaging of today's internet plus all those apps benefit from a little larger screen size. From what I see, smartphones will become increasingly computer-like until we begin to realize again that we need a sit down kind of experience to get any real work done.

    If the only programs you use are Word, Facebook, Netflix, and instant messaging then you don't need a computer at all, a smart phone will do the trick. Sadly I think that 90% or more of consumers fall into this category. The other 10% of us might not be worth the attention of developers.


    The 3D community is not going to save the PC market.


    Agreed, but let's also group all professional and/or hobbiest artists into this category. Until a tablet is powerful and precise enough to run PhotoShop or AutoCad, there is a whole segment of people that need their "real PCs," just like TheWheelMan says here:
    As for the original topic, I think what we're seeing now is that a whole lot of people who previously had to use PCs or laptops, really didn't need a full-fledged computer for their everyday uses. What's happening now is that the PC market is now going to be condensed down to the real PC users, the ones who actually need a PC to do their everyday tasks. Just watch some of the tablet and cellphone presentations on one of the shopping channels and you'll see that most of the people calling in to those shows are elderly or pre-elderly types, people who probably never really needed a real PC but who had no other option until recently. Tablets are so much easier for them. Even my nearly 70 year old mother, since I gave her my old iPad, is almost as good on Google as I am now. :-) But also don't forget, a lot of those tablets are being bought for very young kids. I did a fair amount of reading reviews for the most popular Android tablets, and a large percentage of people said they were purchased for children under 10, some as young as 3. I don't have a smartphone. My tracfone barely makes phone calls, lol. I do have a tablet, and I love it. For the portability it can't be beat. I have a drawing app and a stylus and it is fun. If I need to work however, I need my PC because a tablet is not going to do everything I need it to do, yet. Hybrids like these may bridge that gap eventually.
    http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/13/dell-introduces-xps-18-aio/
    My final opinion is that the PC market is shrinking, but time will tell what the impact on the artist will be. Oh, and LeatherGryphon, Ebenezer Scrooge is one of my heros too. ;-)
    Post edited by DestinysGarden on
  • starionwolfstarionwolf Posts: 3,670
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:

    Time to watch PC Prices, people! If you're thinking about replacing an old PC...

    When I saw the letters "PC" I thought you were referring to the Daz Platinum Club. lol

    I forgot that Microsoft released Windows 8 recently. Thanks for reminding me.

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,598
    edited December 1969

    LeatherGryphon said:

    And as for assembling my posts into a book..., I've thought about it but I'm afraid DAZ changed forums so they could get rid of all my old wisdom. However, I have kept the best of my musings, rants, and pendanticisms in a disorganized folder on my computer so maybe someday....
    leathergryphon.jpg
    976 x 685 - 235K
  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 11,648
    edited December 1969

    OMG! Shhhh... we don't want to scare the villagers.

  • daveleitzdaveleitz Posts: 459
    edited December 1969

    I just got a new laptop. I couldn't stand waiting for renders to finish on the other laptop with its AMD A6 processor. So, I looked around and found an Intel i7 laptop with NVidia graphics that fit the budget. And of course, it came with Windows 8. To be honest, it's not as bad as I expected. I'm not happy with it, but it's not a total disaster either.

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