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Just remember schools don't ONLY teach software, they teach concepts. So when we were learning lighting we didn't stick inside of 3DS max the whole time, we used other tools that illustrated the concepts such as real world styrofoam models and utility lights.
So in that regard free software could potentially used to cover concepts that are not exclusive to a particular program.
I don't know that I would say they are really teaching freeware, but it can be used for some things without devoting a lot of time getting to intimate with the program.
Oh and we loved VirtualDub in college, and so did professors. Its freeware software but people use it in the industry sometimes, so I know freeware isn't immediately ruled out.
Just remember schools don't ONLY teach software, they teach concepts. So when we were learning lighting we didn't stick inside of 3DS max the whole time, we used other tools that illustrated the concepts such as real world styrofoam models and utility lights.
So in that regard free software could potentially used to cover concepts that are not exclusive to a particular program.
I don't know that I would say they are really teaching freeware, but it can be used for some things without devoting a lot of time getting to intimate with the program.
Oh and we loved VirtualDub in college, and so did professors. Its freeware software but people use it in the industry sometimes, so I know freeware isn't immediately ruled out.
We had to use Poser 8 (the version at the time) as the application for a "Human Character Animation" course. We all thought it was 3D hell on earth. Now the study program changed it to iClone.
LOL. Poser 4 was out when I was in school...now I feel old.
LOL. Poser 4 was out when I was in school...now I feel old.
Pong was out when I was in school - how do you think I feel?
I had to use Paper and pencils or paint when I was at school.
Pong was out when I was in school - how do you think I feel?
hahahaha
TI came out with the first under $100 calculator when I was a senior in high school. Not scientific, just + - * /.
Pong was out when I was in school - how do you think I feel?
...Space War for the DEC PDP-1 was out when I was in school (primary), nyah! : P
In college (1970s) Mike Mayfield's "Star Trek" text based game was all the rage.
But please don't use my arguments as anti-genesis, we're not talking about the same thing. I'm talking about genesis one support.
Ohhhhhh.......
OK...what?!?!
See... when you said this:
I really thought you were talking about "older" figures...
OK... you aren't seriously calling Genesis(1) an "older" figure are you? Cuz, I think at least PART of the complaining has been about the fact that Genesis is not that old...
People are not hesitating about buying for Genesis because it's an "older" figure.... *shakes head*
People who have not bought into Genesis are going to... what?? Suddenly want to buy Genesis 2 just cuz it's newer??
I'm guessing no.
OK... more of my worthless opinion ahead:
People who have not bought into Genesis have many reasons for not doing it. Some are just mad at Daz. Some are just not happy with how it works in their program of choice. Some just don't want to invest into yet another line of products that may be outdated in a year... there are other reasons, too, I'm sure...
But I promise you, they don't regard Genesis as an "older figure"
It's not because the products are bad either... The PA's are doing an awesome job of trying to be supportive of the NEW figure...
if sales are not stellar it's not because people don't want to support the PA's... it's because they don't want to support Genesis.
(See above as to why)
I don't expect that to change much with a new version.
Why?
Cuz the hope is that the "improvements" to the mesh are going to entice those who did not buy before to suddenly now want the "New... um... er... yeah... Newer" figure, is that right?
OK... um... if the customer never bought into Genesis... what would they have to compare the newer one to? I'm saying, if they didn't own the first one, they don't have anything to compare to for the newer one.
I'm guessing that those who buy/bought into V6 are those who already bought into V5 and the original Genesis, or they are brand new and just getting acquainted with Daz...
Those people who were not buying before... I don't imagine they will buy the new one either...
Advice for PA's:
Make what YOUR customers say they want... and don't worry too much about what Daz encourages and says they "would like" you to make...
after all... they are YOUR customers....
ok... end of worthless opinion....
Actually I do make what I want, however too many times you see posts where people say they want something, you give it to them and they either don't buy it or stick on their wishlists, so it ends up a waste of my time where I could be making something else. Even worse is when you provide something and someone says "I'll wait until it's 50% off." PAs don't create items for sale for them to be deeply discounted; that's also a waste of their time. They attempt to provide things that customers want at a price that they think is fair for the time they've invested in it.
That said, the last week there's been a lot of confusion about Gen2 and incorrect statements about being the end of Gen1 simply weren't true due to mass speculation and lack of information that really should have been more detailed so people actually understood what Gen2/V6 actually was... and because of that, a lot of people stopped buying the Gen1 stuff thinking they were going to end the figure. So if you want PAs to continue to provide Gen 1 products you need to show that support by purchasing those products. If you don't buy them, then there's no need for us to take our time to provide you with those products.
That's what I'm saying.
Greetings,
Pong was out when I was in school - how do you think I feel?
...Space War for the DEC PDP-1 was out when I was in school (primary), nyah! : P
In college (1970s) Mike Mayfield's "Star Trek" text based game was all the rage.Oh wow, I whiled away a lot of hours playing that game... That, rogue, and a bunch of the old DECUS game tape stuff... And of course everything in David Ahl's books. :)
Memory...all alone in the screenlight...I can smile at the old days...code was simpler then...
-- Morgan
Keyboarding was called typing and typewriters were not electric. There was no such thing as a spreadsheet. Accounting was done on a ledger sheet with a BIC Accountant Fine Point pen. When you dialed a phone, you actually dialed the phone.
...and a notebook usually featured a spiral wire binding.
I'LL admit... now that v6 is out, I won't be buying genesis 1 female figures unless the figure is really unique or different. I would buy v5 skins though, I have just switched over to v6··· Like the way she looks much more than gen 1 v5 …
Expecting to see the words "carnsarn" and "whippersnapper" any time now. :D
Ball point pens.
Showed up around the time I was in 4th grade. Actually I suspect they'd been around longer, but the price was dropping to the point that normal people could afford them. We weren't allowed to use them for our school work because that was too easy (ink came in a bottle and we were taught to write in ink on horrible paper with steel-nibbed dip pens). Of course a couple of years later the Bic pen was out and anyone could afford those so the schools pretty much gave up trying to maintain artificial "standards".
Well... I had this really long post that didn't make much sense cuz at the time I was doing a bunch of other stuff and was getting kinda tired...
....and now I am actually tired....so I don't know how much better this will be.
I know it's tough for you PA's, too. And I know that trying to figure out what the customer wants vs. what they say they want can be daunting...
but I think the truth is... people don't always have money when that really awesome product they've been wanting actually comes out and so by the time they do have money, perhaps it ends up seeming like, "Well, I went this long without it... it can probably wait". I don't think people are trying to mislead the vendors. I just think that human nature and circumstance often interfere with someone's intentions.
Genesis 1....Genesis 2
To be honest....just thinking the words, "Genesis 2" actually (literally) causes my stomach to knot up...
....and because I'm tired and not making much sense, I'll just have to say, "Good luck with that."
That, I think, is the crux of the problem right there. Daz really should have made an announcement prior to the release of the figure spelling out what exactly the figure is and what the plans for Genesis 1 are.
Personally, I think if they are indeed going separate male and female figures it was a huge mistake to call these new figures Genesis. Victoria 6 and Michael 6 is what they should have gone with and save Genesis 2 for the next release of a unimesh figure.
Some of the speculation of deliberate abandonment of the Genesis figure is warranted reading old forum posts about how Daz sold products right up to the bitter end only to completely turf them on the next update of Daz Studio (Animate 1, anybody?). It's not like people are without cause to be nervous of Daz's intentions and their silence isn't exactly reassuring.
..exactly. This is what I already have alluded to.
I missed this earlier... but I feel compelled to comment.
Of course, I can only speak for myself.
It doesn't matter to me
1. Who may agree with me or not
2. Who may be analyzing me or not.
3. Who may be intimidating me or not.
I will always do what I think is right.
Always.
Well, you make mostly characters (morphs and skins). So, those I pick up if I need a certain skin tone. I'm an impulse buyer myself. Now if I could get decent medieval and fantasywear that is not skimp/skankwear for males (and sometimes for females) I am almost 100% likely to purchase those as impulse buys no matter the price simply because I love doing those types of renders.
I do want to thank you for Ashley though. He was a MUST buy for me. The Wagner bundle is likely to be bought by me on the 1st as he looks like he would make an excellent medieval baron.
However, that being said, I am unlikely to buy any clothing or bundles for Genesis 2 until such a time as I can justify spending on both the figures and the required morphs required to make both the male and female versions as morphable as Genesis original.
Returning to the topic of the thread I'd add a wee bit of skepticism to the claim in alleged DAZ publicity letter.
1. To be the most successful DAZ release to date in absolute terms V6 had to sell in excess of 3 million during the first few days. I'm not saying she didn't, but that kind of blockbuster generally makes larger waves than a letter to some customers. It's Windows 7 or iPhone league stuff. The New York Times shouldn't have missed it, or at least the Wall Street Journal.
2. If DAZ is so profoundly successful in professional markets that it could entirely ignore hobbyists, and if those wholesale-buying professionals do not read or participate in forums, then we at least should see a lot of specialized trade publications or at least high profile blogs. I haven't seen any. I highly doubt Fortune 500 companies will buy a lot V6 Basic Underwear without solid trade mag to explain why they should do so.
3. While the idea that schools are the deciding factor that lets DAZ safely ignore existing user base deserves merit, I'm not sure the schools are that good customer for 3D content. I'm somewhat familiar with the budget policies and acquisitions at schools. Usually it takes several years to approve the software. So schools might get DS 4.6 and Genesis 2 now, but they won't be buying any additional content beyond what they get in an initial bundle for several years.
I write all this in response to posts that claim us being small and unimportant people, our protests unheard, our complaints pointless. DAZ might ignore the response to Genesis 2 release to their own peril, but that doesn't mean people posting here aren't core base of its business.
To answer MaleM3dia's arguments somewhat - I was supporting Genesis 1 heavily. I spent several thousands buying lots of stuff. And much good did it to me. During March Madness I spent some $2000 in hope that this was a road ahead only to learn that Genesis 2 is not Genesis at all a couple of months later. After a lesson like this I would be stupid to repeat it with V6. I'd buy G2 kid stuff though, because Genesis never had any kids anyway.
Obviously DAZ 3D was talking in respect of DAZ 3D releases , so your comparison is rather specious
I was referring to Victoria 4 as the most successful previous DAZ release. I've seen 3 million figure quoted in several places, including, I think, Scott's writeup on DAZ base character history.
I am sorry I didn't make this clear enough.
It is possible, that the claim was made on relative data (eg. sales during the first few days), but then it wasn't made clear by DAZ, and I don't think that a few days make a substantial enough base for such claim.
Obviously V6 couldn't have beaten the sales of V4 over her entire life - that's what the 3 million figure is - not the release period sales. That would be a ludicrous claim.
Wasn't the base V4 free?
Victoria 6 costs $27.96 (30% off) / $19.59 (51% off PC) and includes the Victoria 6 body/head morphs and the Belle texture.
The Victoria 4.0 Complete bundle cost $24.48 on 2006-12-08. I'm sure that was just a 30% release discount. It included
Victoria 4.0 Base
Morphs ++ (which included the genitalia)
Developer Kit
Standard Res Skin Maps
Amarseda Hair
Basicwear for V4
The Victoria 6 Starter bundle costs $55.97 (30% off) / $39.18 (51% off PC) and includes
Victoria 6
Caped Rogue
Garden Party Dress
Nocturne Poses for V6
Nordic Hair
Charm Hair
Nyssa
The Victoria 6 Pro bundle costs $87.47 (30% off) / $61.23 (51% off PC) and includes
Victoria 6
Caped Rogue
Garden Party Dress
Nocturne Poses for V6
Nordic Hair
Charm Hair
Nyssa
String Bikini for Victoria 6
Darkwoods Heroine
Club 58 Dress
Sweet Emotion V6
Casual Sexy Poses for Genesis 2 Female(s)
Udane Hair
Fashion Hair
Norma
Vianne for Victoria 6
Genesis 2 Female(s) Genitalia
I didn't purchase Victoria 5 until that massive sale in October. The Victoria 5 Pro Bundle cost $52.48 (58% off) on 2012-10-24. The base price on the Victoria 5 Pro Bundle and the Victoria 6 Pro Bundle are the same, but I don't remember if there was an additional discount beyond the 30% release discount on release. The V5 Pro Bundle included
Victoria 5
Genesis Female Geo-Grafted Genitalia
Gabi for V5
Tori for V5
Chelsea Hair
Hampton Hair
Pure Hair Bubblegum
Alruna
Magna Hart for Genesis
SciFi Bunny For Genesis
Sexy Silky For Genesis
Expressive for Genesis
Handy for Genesis
Pin Up Poses for V5
Posed for Victoria 5
V5 General Poses (15 Victoria 5 Poses)
Dollar wise, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that DAZ gets more money from a sale of V6 / V6 bundle than they did with a sale of V4 / V4 bundle. Whether DAZ got more money from a V5 sale than V6 sale depends on whether V5 had a 30% or 51% discount on release.
Considering there SHOULD be far more customers now than there were in 2006, I'd think the volume of sales would be greater.
Comparing V4 to V6 is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. V4 is a base figure, V6 is a character for the Genesis 2 base figure.
great to read, that i 'm not the only one that share this opinion.
if you follow the developers list, you will see what 's dead and what not or what's more important.
a few years ago, i play with carrara too, got free version 6 with magazine update to 7 and 8 and left.
why? because not enough improvement. seriously take a note on carrara today and take a view to blender.
do we need more words?
i saved money on tutorials,content and bought me a version of modo, best money i've spend in my 3d hobby.
(modo+zbrush) you can't find any better today.
now i only wait on a good working studio version for animation so i can use it in my pipeline or a dson to modo.
@Satira Capriccio: What, why am I quoted here? I think you're figures for the Victoria products are off. I doubt they are more expensive now then at release. There was actually a lot more stuff in the V4 pro bundle http://www.daz3d.com/victoria-4-2-pro-bundle - lot more expensive than what you've got down too. Historicaly DAZ characters are getting cheaper, not more expensive. V1 cost almost 200 bucks.
Actually shouldn't the comparison of V6 be for A4, S4, or G4? V6 is nothing more than a morph set for G2F the same as those others are morph sets of V4.
Modo and zBrush are great programs. I've got myself LightWave, but would love to pick up zBrush when I can afford another expensive app. I don't like saving money on tutorials though, I find them too useful and they pay for themselves in skills.