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Actually shouldn't the comparison of V6 be for A4, S4, or G4? V6 is nothing more than a morph set for G2F the same as those others are morph sets of V4.
Splitting hairs. For many V6 is the main attraction :D If you compare G2 or G1 to V4 then you would have to go by downloads. G2 probably belted V4 in terms of units shipped during release period.
Edit: Actually I don't know about that. Hmm.
I still remember when Sega created a scientific calculator that was destined to fail. It was advanced hot stuff, and focused on the needs of high school students. So please don't think gaming system. Problem with the calculator was it had infrared communications port, which allowed for exchanging information when two users where within 6 feet of each other.
Too far ahead of the curve I'm afraid.
You dared to ask. I hoping nothing like this
You dared to ask. I hoping nothing like this
Well, it's certainly not showing my best side.
Trust me, there's loads of stuff I want to get from your store. I'm actually eye-balling characters like Tyrese, Ashley and Wynn in particular. But unfortunately, like everyone else has been saying, I don't always have the opportunity to blow my cash on every little thing you guys make right away. Sometimes money so tight I actually have to strategize what I'm going to buy after the monthly punches the Pro Bundles give me. Content is more of a priority to me more than skins.
Actually, the kinds of skins I really invest in are ones that tend to be aimed stylized characters like Aiko and Hiro. I like soft, hairless skins. I'm not even necessarily talking about toony, either. An excellent example of which I'm talking about is just about anything from Lajasis or Freja over at Rendo usually fits my tastes. More times than not, when I DO buy realistic male skins, they usually turn out too ashy and awkward on the character morphs I use. That's why in your particular case I'm interested in characters like Ashley.
But I do agree with you, money talks louder than words to businesses. Like most people, I will continue to invest in G1 until it's dying breath, which, I too, don't think will anytime in the immediate future because of the figure that it is in opposition to the previous generations and G2. I DO want want to make that statement that I want versatility and unisex support, not fixated gender favoritism.
Well, it's certainly not showing my best side.
But cute nonetheless.
They never became relics in the school district in which I taught through 2006. : )
I think a scientific calculator which texts, plays mp3s, and takes pictures would be quite popular amongst today's high school students.
Which goes to the point that has been made that G2F came too fast too soon. Had Daz spent more time preparing the customers for it's release so they would be hungry for it, things would have been much better. But no just a day or two before it's release, in this forum there were people saying it was all a rumor and that even PA's weren't ready because there was still allot of support that could be done for Genesis. I mean I've yet to here of anything significant G2F brings to the table other then maybe the ability to make more realistic images without additional products like belly control for genesis or similar products.
Carnsarnit, all you young whippersnappers always expecting stuff. :)
Happy now? :D
Which goes to the point that has been made that G2F came too fast too soon. Had Daz spent more time preparing the customers for it's release so they would be hungry for it, things would have been much better. But no just a day or two before it's release, in this forum there were people saying it was all a rumor and that even PA's weren't ready because there was still allot of support that could be done for Genesis. I mean I've yet to here of anything significant G2F brings to the table other then maybe the ability to make more realistic images without additional products like belly control for genesis or similar products.
Actually, the opposite happened... they were hungry for G2F and V6... hence why DAZ sent out that email about V6.
Fair enough, calling them relics was an overstatement. But I do remember that using them was frowned on because they were so loud. most people brought in their own personal sharpeners. But we sometimes we had people who purposely would try to sharpen 5 or 6 pencils at once just to be an annoyance LOL.
Actually, the opposite happened... they were hungry for G2F and V6... hence why DAZ sent out that email about V6.
No I remember distinctly a thread in here about V6 G2 that was started because a hair package Gwen Hair I think it was, that claimed support for V6 and G2. Some people were saying it must be a typo, others were saying it couldn't possibly be true because there was too much money to be made with G1 still. Then 2 days later V6 was released. Now in fairness they did have a thread about it in the members only section but from what I've seen people say over the past few years lots of the long time customers have had to give up on Plat memberships because money is too tight for them to pony up the membership fee. I'm one of those in fact although I had to give mine up going on 3 years ago now.
What Daz and apparently a lot of you vendors are missing is that times are tough for people right now and when times are tough the first things that goes are what you would like or what you want, in favor of what you absolutely need. Now given your work and the quality of it, I can see where G2F is exactly what you need but for the average customer here that level of detail is not all that important. It's nice but not nice enough to make them want to have to eat ramen noodles for the next month to be able to afford. So it's no wonder many of your customers are waiting for a 50% off sale or just putting things on their wish list. Who can blame them either, with all the big sales Daz has throughout the year it just makes good sense. Why pay full price when you know you'll be able to get deep discounts in a few months? It's just good sense to wait even if you actually can afford the full price. Why pay full price when you can get half price? For bragging rights? To say you got something before everyone else? That's fine for things like cars or iphones but for 3D content not so much.
Also don't confuse conditioned behavior with hunger and desire. People have been complaining about figure releases and then turning around and buying them anyway since V4.
Actually, the opposite happened... they were hungry for G2F and V6... hence why DAZ sent out that email about V6.
No I remember distinctly a thread in here about V6 G2 that was started because a hair package Gwen Hair I think it was, that claimed support for V6 and G2. Some people were saying it must be a typo, others were saying it couldn't possibly be true because there was too much money to be made with G1 still. Then 2 days later V6 was released. Now in fairness they did have a thread about it in the members only section but from what I've seen people say over the past few years lots of the long time customers have had to give up on Plat memberships because money is too tight for them to pony up the membership fee. I'm one of those in fact although I had to give mine up going on 3 years ago now.
What Daz and apparently a lot of you vendors are missing is that times are tough for people right now and when times are tough the first things that goes are what you would like or what you want, in favor of what you absolutely need. Now given your work and the quality of it, I can see where G2F is exactly what you need but for the average customer here that level of detail is not all that important. It's nice but not nice enough to make them want to have to eat ramen noodles for the next month to be able to afford. So it's no wonder many of your customers are waiting for a 50% off sale or just putting things on their wish list. Who can blame them either, with all the big sales Daz has throughout the year it just makes good sense. Why pay full price when you know you'll be able to get deep discounts in a few months? It's just good sense to wait even if you actually can afford the full price. Why pay full price when you can get half price? For bragging rights? To say you got something before everyone else? That's fine for things like cars or iphones but for 3D content not so much.
Also don't confuse conditioned behavior with hunger and desire. People have been complaining about figure releases and then turning around and buying them anyway since V4.
I think you're missing what I'm saying. People bought V6... a lot of them. And that's despite people posting it was too soon and they can't afford the investment. Just because people had posted their complaints doesn't change that. Most people don't post to the forums; that's why they say it's not really representative of the whole pool of buyers.
I asked PAs how their V6 sales were doing in light of the forum posts... they said really well... and some made a lot of money.
So don't confuse forum perception with the actual reality of what happened.
A week before G2F and V6 were released, the Candice texture was accidentally released. This product stated that it was for the Genesis 2 Female and V6. Gwen hair has fits for the G2F but it also has other fits so it wasn't that big a deal.
Candice was pulled early that Friday morning. Once it was known, DAZ started a thread in member's only which was mainly showing promo pics from the various products, many of which were released with G2F and V6 the next week.
Why are we arguing over this anyways? If I walk past a car in a shop that I want and don't have money for it at that current time, I'm not going to go into the car shop and say "How dare you release it so soon". It will be there when you can afford it be it at full price or on discount. Why does the rules apply differently here? We understand not everybody has money, that is life lol. But Daz also has to cater for those who do. Genesis2 isn't going anywhere, and when you can afford it when the time is right, or see the additional features an improvement, then welcome aboard. Nobody is forcing you to buy it now or at all really. It's just another offering, not a replacement. Some people might not like it or find it valuable, others will. It still offers backward compatability. Complaining isn't going to change anything.
No I remember distinctly a thread in here about V6 G2 that was started because a hair package Gwen Hair I think it was, that claimed support for V6 and G2. Some people were saying it must be a typo, others were saying it couldn't possibly be true because there was too much money to be made with G1 still. Then 2 days later V6 was released. Now in fairness they did have a thread about it in the members only section but from what I've seen people say over the past few years lots of the long time customers have had to give up on Plat memberships because money is too tight for them to pony up the membership fee. I'm one of those in fact although I had to give mine up going on 3 years ago now.
What Daz and apparently a lot of you vendors are missing is that times are tough for people right now and when times are tough the first things that goes are what you would like or what you want, in favor of what you absolutely need. Now given your work and the quality of it, I can see where G2F is exactly what you need but for the average customer here that level of detail is not all that important. It's nice but not nice enough to make them want to have to eat ramen noodles for the next month to be able to afford. So it's no wonder many of your customers are waiting for a 50% off sale or just putting things on their wish list. Who can blame them either, with all the big sales Daz has throughout the year it just makes good sense. Why pay full price when you know you'll be able to get deep discounts in a few months? It's just good sense to wait even if you actually can afford the full price. Why pay full price when you can get half price? For bragging rights? To say you got something before everyone else? That's fine for things like cars or iphones but for 3D content not so much.
Also don't confuse conditioned behavior with hunger and desire. People have been complaining about figure releases and then turning around and buying them anyway since V4.
I think you're missing what I'm saying. People bought V6... a lot of them. And that's despite people posting it was too soon and they can't afford the investment. Just because people had posted their complaints doesn't change that. Most people don't post to the forums; that's why they say it's not really representative of the whole pool of buyers.
I asked PAs how their V6 sales were doing in light of the forum posts... they said really well... and some made a lot of money.
So don't confuse forum perception with the actual reality of what happened.
Yes I did misunderstand at first, that's why I came back and added the comment about conditioned behavior. Sure it's the best release yet but that is because there are more customers then ever. So you have more people conditioned to buy what is the latest figure released whether they need it or not. The fact of the matter is, a great number of customers feel that once a new figure is out support for an old figure stops and this has more or less held true and I've seen it play out many times over the past decade of being a Daz customer. I often use M3 still yet I see nothing new being made for M3. Fortunately M3 had a fair amount of time before M4 and so there was quite a bit of support content made for M3.
i don't see support for Genesis 1 stopping anytime soon.
Sure it will, unless you vendors and Daz just completely ignore what your customers want. Complaining is how one makes a company know they are dissatisfied, unhappy, or feeling neglected in some way. Given the products you make and are even promoting in your sig I'd think you would be very unhappy with the release of G2F how many more of your products released in the past few months would sell if there wasn't a more realistic and accurate figure available that maybe doesn't need so much of that stuff to achieve realism?
Also the car comparison doesn't really work because people don't buy a car with the expectation that one model is going to be the standard that all car parts and after market addons are made for.
Oh and for the record I'm not really effected by this move I'm still working with Studio 3.1 and Gen 4. I have Studio 4.5 and a lot of Genesis stuff but it all changes and needs to be updated too fast for me to keep current with and so I'll likely not install this newer stuff until such time as I am in a situation that only this newer stuff can solve or that it settles down and becomes more stable and doesn't need to be updated every time Daz tweaks Studio.
Agreed Frank, and I think that is what most people are fearing. To most of us it is still a very viable platform that hasn't reached its potential yet, and if support for it from customers are still in great demand, we will still produce content for it.
Sure it will, unless you vendors and Daz just completely ignore what your customers want. Complaining is how one makes a company know they are dissatisfied, unhappy, or feeling neglected in some way. Given the products you make and are even promoting in your sig I'd think you would be very unhappy with the release of G2F how many more of your products released in the past few months would sell if there wasn't a more realistic and accurate figure available that maybe doesn't need so much of that stuff to achieve realism?
Also the car comparison doesn't really work because people don't buy a car with the expectation that one model is going to be the standard that all car parts and after market addons are made for.
Again, the forum representation of the entire market is very small. EG its like people in a thread asking for a product, saying they will buy it, and end of the day you make it, the sales are bad because it is not something that was appealing to the entire market, and was only to those few who showed interest in the thread. And with regards to Genesis2 being here, I like it:) It's another toy I can express myself with, and hasn't affected current Genesis1 content sales. People will buy what they want. To this day I still buy V4 content to use on Genesis, and that figure is over 7 years old.
Again, the forum representation of the entire market is very small. EG its like people in a thread asking for a product, saying they will buy it, and end of the day you make it, the sales are bad because it is not something that was appealing to the entire market, and only to those few who showed interest in the thread. And with regards to Genesis2 being here, I like it:) Its another toy I can express myself with, and hasn't affected current Genesis1 content sales.
I guess that's what you and Male Media and Daz all tell yourselves when you want to go in a different direction? How then do you know what the market wants? What guides you in the direction of these faceless majority that doesn't participate in forum threads? Tarot cards?
Also you are assuming my comments are only based on what is in the forum. It is not, customers talk to one another because we often need help beyond the readme files and such and through that we form bonds and friendships that extend beyond the forum, beyond the Daz site and even beyond the internet into real life. I typically don't reference things like that though because there is no way for people like you or companies like Daz to verify information derived from those sources, so I point to forum posts that echo the same things. I guess I'll have to figure out something else though if this trend of seeing form representation as being insignificant to notice, continues.
Sigh..nobody said the forum is insignificant. Points made here are viewed both by Daz and PA's. It just isn't the voice of the entire market. That is all I am saying. In most cases we just have to trust our gut in what to do, and hope it pays off. Yes in some cases what was said in the forum was true, and in some cases not, but we cannot use that as the entire situation. It is a valid guideline and does help you steer in the right direction, and in some cases not.
Agreed Frank, and I think that is what most people are fearing. To most of us it is still a very viable platform that hasn't reached its potential yet, and if support for it from customers are still in great demand, we will still produce content for it.
It is exactly what people are fearing because it is exactly what happened in the past and guess what when it was Genesis 1 replacing Victoria 4 there were people saying they didn't see support for V4 stopping anytime soon and yet it did. Until an insignificant few started complaining in the forums and then some vendors kept supporting V4 in response.
Nor did I ever say it was the voice for the entire market. All I'm saying is that the unhappiness is real and that it's greater then just what you see in this forum.
This whole fear or hatred of change with so many on this forum is hilarious. It uses the same base argument as this:
I'm still really upset that there just isn't the support there used to be for my 1954 Cadillac Eldorado. True, all these "new" or "modern" cars might have things like anti-lock brakes, better gas millage, air bags, or even the way over blown features like MP3 players, GPS navigation systems, emergency support through OnStar, etc. I don't need any of those things and as a whole they are mostly worthless. It is really crappy that Cadillac doesn't offer the support they used to for this car, what I would argue is an all around better car (minus the efficiency, safety measures, and modern convenience) and that all the parts they use in their newer models aren't backwards compatible is just a stupid business decision and offensive to all the people that invested in their older and better car.
In one of the fastest developing and growing segment of technology (3D in general, not necessarily Daz / Poserdom), how many companies still actively develop for software or technologies released 10 years ago? Or even 5 years ago? Even amidst all the complaints that Apple receives for releasing yet another version of an iPhone, almost one generation per year, you can bet they won't stop releasing new versions because things get better, faster, and it makes them money, and not doing it would be stupid. Why does it seem artists in this space seem to want the 3D world to stagnate instead of move forward?
LordHardDriven I know the unhappiness is real. I at times am unhappy with decisions, but efforts are constantly being made to change that. Might not happen over night, but this isn't a Sony or Microsoft, this is a smaller industry so it takes a bit longer to address every issue to cater for the demand of users, and everybody is working as hard as they can to make it better. Again most don't see it, but do you honestly think its intentional to make people unhappy?
"PAs won't have to make fix morphs" is an advantage to a new figure, not a drawback.
Modo and zBrush are great programs. I've got myself LightWave, but would love to pick up zBrush when I can afford another expensive app. I don't like saving money on tutorials though, I find them too useful and they pay for themselves in skills.
...played with the Demo of modo years ago and loved it. The sad part at nearly 1,000$ could never afford it so I stopped downloading demos of pro grade software. Zbrush, modo, C4D, Photoshop, Maxwell, all are beyond my budget (particularly now). For me the likes of PSP, Gimp, Hexagon (which still doesn't work right after 5 years), Daz Studio, Carrara, and Bryce, are more within my means. I wouldn't even have Poser Pro 2012, (which I got at a ridiculously low upgrade price from PP2010 which I got a ridiculously low sidegrade price from P8) if I hadn't won Poser 8 in a challenge. That's the income strata I'm in and have to deal with, hence I have to often make tough choices on what I buy and get the most I can for my money's worth.
Looking back, next to the V.2 Pro Bundle the Young Teens5 Pro Bundle for Genesis was one of the best purchases I made given the use I get out of it. My worst buy (other than Hexagon), was Steph5 Basic, for she turned out to be nothing like her Gen4 or even Gen3 counterparts. Fortunately I got a good deal on her so I'm not out as much and it does give me her UV map.
61$ for V6 Pro (and that's at the PC introductory price)? Sorry, not worth it on my budget for such a "limited" model (can't make a teen with her, can't make a kid with her, can't even dress her in V4 clothing or use a V4 character texture on her without having to purchase an extra add on. To make the character even remotely useful I need to lay out a total of nearly 98$ even with the PC discount (10.47$ for V4 for G2F and 16.15$ for the G2 Females Morph Bundle). That 1$ less than what I paid for the update to Poser Pro 2012.
In comparison, I was able to purchase the V4.2 Pro bundle for 24.95$ on a special introductory price when I first started in this five years ago.
There's a thread floating around here that asks the question what would you like to see in Daz 5? For me, continued support for all Daz/Poser content of all generations. I want to be able to load my original Genesis, my Gen3, my Gen4, My Gen5, my Toon characters in scenes. I want the option not to have to use G2 (F, or M, or T, or K, or whatever) because frankly with way it is being packaged, along with Daz's apparent lack of interest in providing "Iconic Figure" support for it (which affects what can and cannot be combined/fit to it), it is too bleedin' expensive for what it offers.
I'm sure that somebody will still be making those fix morphs anyway.
the V4 for V6 wont let you use V4 morphs will it?
Nor did I ever say it was the voice for the entire market. All I'm saying is that the unhappiness is real and that it's greater then just what you see in this forum.
Especially given what can't be said in this forum.