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I've found 85% of the clothing released for ALL the Gen6 characters to be thoroughly unattractive and/or unrealistic. There's a few nice bathing suits, although at least one of them looks like the kind you never want to get wet. But apart from the Jogger set, which really does look like a jogger would wear it -- and the hoodie has a hood down morph! How rare is that!? -- there's virtually nothing in the main store that I'd even bother with. The only thing I've seen that I'd actually try to use was a PC item.
I mean, the ubiquitous skimpwear will always be with us. But this isn't even *pretty* skimpwear.
Esha's Florinda Dress www.daz3d.com/florinda-dress is quite nice, plenty of gentle adjustment morphs, although I haven't tried to give it a serious workout.
Song of Spring http://www.daz3d.com/song-of-spring might be ok too, but i didin't get it because the promos look like auto-follow quality despite the list of adjustments it says there are for it, so this might be a lost sale due to slap-dash promo renders (a lot of promos recently have been rush jobs on quite a few of the new products - some didn't even have scene lights in them - if you don't make products look their best, don't be surprised if they don't sell).
For Genesis 1, there are obviously some artists that stand out more than others, so rather than criticize the ones I don't buy, I'd prefer to mention the ones that I'm prepared to buy from in good faith because of the high quality of products previously bought from them...
SickleYield... http://www.daz3d.com/sickleyield (I'm also thinking of items at other stores rather than just the selection in the DAZ store)
Dogz (contemporary wear)... http://www.daz3d.com/dogz
Aave Nainen (Miss Fisher's Wardrobe)... http://www.daz3d.com/aave-nainen
...and also not forgetting all the dynamic clothes currently available that can be used via drape animation even if it's designed for V4 or Genesis/V5
I'm not saying other vendors do bad stuff (well, I'm comfortable to compliment and recommend, but don't want to single-out artists just because their products fail my expectations, not to mention there are plenty that do excellent stuff but simply don't do skirts/dresses), but these are the names that spring to mind when thinking of good skirt movement morphs.
Yes, for womens clothing Miss Fisher's three offerings are quite nice but the price tag is a bit high for me esp since I don't use females allot of the times in my render work. Some very nice things for Genesis 01 for both male and female but so far for Gene 02F not all the impressed. No offense to any merchant but some folks just can't seem to get away from such drastic fantasy/slut wear/show skin types of looks. You can get all fantasy without going "there" but they do. Maybe it's less to model and is quicker to make?? Not sure but yea, I'm to a point where I just won't bother with stuff that's just not my taste. Folks say "Support your favorite vendor" but for me it's "Vendors, support your client's wishes" and from the many threads in the forums as of late folks are tired to death of all the skin showing slut wear that's been hitting the stores lately. Sorry I just don't do the street walker thing! NOT MY THANG!
Conforming Skirts are indeed a P.I.T.A to make, but I agree that skirts with conforming thighs only works if its VERY short skimpy skirt (I'm talking like a belt of a skirt!)
if the hem comes about half way down the thigh the results from auto-conforming are not good, and on knee lengths skirts the result is just terrible. Mesh smoothing fixes it up a bit, but if you turn mesh smoothing iterations off completely, you basically left with a skirt rigged as pants, which is pretty much garbage unfortunately.
So I think this is primarily why we see so many skimpy skirts in the store - they are easy to rig with transfer utility.
What is really lost though auto conform, is the way a tighter skirt is pulled taught around and between the thighs and also the way the hem rides up when the fabric reaches it stretching limit.
I tend to go with movement morphs combined with L / R handles, the idea being that you use 1 or 2 morphs to get best approximate fit to a pose, then use the handles for small adjustments as needed. I find this yields the best results.
Getting all the movement morphs down is about a days work in itself, as at least a dozen are needed to cover most poses. movement morphs have their limits though, as you cant really use them on a skirt that goes over the knee without things getting rather messy and over-complicated when trying to accommodate the shins.
Dynamic is hands down, the best solution for looser skirts and dresses, specially for longer garments, no matter what you do with morphs and rigging on them, they will never pose very naturally and will tend to look rather rigid.
Oh and thanks for the shout out from Barbult and Jabba, always much appreciated guys :)
That's the big difference in my attitude between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, I used to buy as much Genesis 1 stuff so that I was supporting the figure, even stuff I knew I wouldn't really use (so we maybe shot ourselves in the foot by buying tat that then became an established level of quality that is sub-par for anything outside portraiture)... But with Genesis 2, I will only buy stuff I'm confident I'll use. Well, I did buy pro bundle, but haven't really tried any of those outfits yet, but each new release now has a personal check-list to satisfy before I purchase:
Q1: Do I like the look/design of the entire costume or feel a part of the costume could be used for kit-bashing with other items?
(If no, don't open wallet - If yes, proceed to Q2)
Q2: Do the morph list and promo renders look like product can be used in a variety of scenarios rather than the default static portrait pose?
(If no, then consider Q3 - If yes, add to cart if price appears acceptable for the work involved in creating it)
Q3: Based upon previous purchasing experience, do I trust the artist that made the product?
(If no, then don't open wallet - If yes, assess possibility that lack of info and lack of useful promos are issue with store rather than the product... how much i like the design will probably determine purchase or not, albeit most likely wait and see what other people say who already bought it)
Pricing will always be a tricky subject - of course we want the highest quality for the cheapest price, but we equally need to pay the creators enough for them to keep making the good stuff. We seem to have two extremes, cheap tat and premium quality... If the cheap tat was finished properly, they could add $5 to the price and it could suddenly become a versatile mid-range product.
But of course, if plenty of people keep buying the cheap tat, we will remain in a catch-22 situation because there would be no incentive to change from offering products with the least amount of effort put in but at as high a price we'll still buy without too many complaints. After all, regular forum users are the minority of customers (from what I've been told and tradition with other online businesses would suggest that to be the case), so that would suggest there are loads of people buying products without complaining about them, albeit this in itself does not mean they're happy with them any more than that they don't know any different.
No worries (and interesting reading your comments too), now here's a list of the stuff I want you to make for V6 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Always happy to highlight good vendors. It helps me when others do that. I just bought the new glasses. My first render is underway with the glasses folded as a prop on a desk.
...what Daz Studio really needs is a "Cloth Tab" that allows us to create our own cloth dynamics rather than just having rely on clothing content exclusively made for the current plugin. True, it's not a complete substitute, but from my perspective, simpler than having to provide the additional rigging to get things looking right.
Cloth dynamics could also help deal with the "skin tight" fitting of some clothing content on the upper body as well, which currently requires a degree of 3D modelling and/or sculpting skill (along the additional software to support it).
...what Daz Studio really needs is a "Cloth Tab" that allows us to create our own cloth dynamics rather than just having rely on clothing content exclusively made for the current plugin. True, it's not a complete substitute, but from my perspective, simpler than having to provide the additional rigging to get things looking right.
Cloth dynamics could also help deal with the "skin tight" fitting of some clothing content on the upper body as well, which currently requires a degree of 3D modelling and/or sculpting skill (along the additional software to support it).
I completely agree. Which is why I'm trying to find a programmer willing to take this on, if we raise the funds in advance via Kickstarter. (Kickstarter requires that we have identified a committed programmer before we can start to raise money.)
I completely agree. Which is why I'm trying to find a programmer willing to take this on, if we raise the funds in advance via Kickstarter. (Kickstarter requires that we have identified a committed programmer before we can start to raise money.)
The problem is, no one here has any idea what agreements were made between DAZ and Optitex. If Optitex has some type of exclusive rights to cloth dynamics in DS. If that's the case, it won't matter if you do have the funds or even the program. DAZ would have little choice but to refuse.
I honestly am not a fan of the optitex dynamic clothing I've seen so far. it doesn't look quite right to me and I found it difficult to use.
I completely agree. Which is why I'm trying to find a programmer willing to take this on, if we raise the funds in advance via Kickstarter. (Kickstarter requires that we have identified a committed programmer before we can start to raise money.)
The problem is, no one here has any idea what agreements were made between DAZ and Optitex. If Optitex has some type of exclusive rights to cloth dynamics in DS. If that's the case, it won't matter if you do have the funds or even the program. DAZ would have little choice but to refuse.
Why would Optitex have an exclusive rights? DS is independent program and I'm pretty sure Optitex rights end on where its dynamic plugin ends. Remove the plugin (make a better one) and there is no need for Optitex.
They would If DAZ signed an agreement to that effect. It's a common business practice.
Coldrake
...I just hope something gets worked out. It would give Daz a huge leg up for it's one feature this application has been needing for a long time.
The problem is, no one here has any idea what agreements were made between DAZ and Optitex. If Optitex has some type of exclusive rights to cloth dynamics in DS. If that's the case, it won't matter if you do have the funds or even the program. DAZ would have little choice but to refuse.
Whatever agreements DAZ has - or has not - made with Optitex, that doesn't stop a third party from making a competing plugin. It could, in theory, prevent DAZ from making or funding a competing plugin themselves, but it doesn't bind zigraphix (or anyone else). The ability - both technical and legal - to make plugins for DAZ Studio is there. all that's needed is one or more people with the skill, and some money. And someone to manage the project (e.g. get it started in the first place and then keep it rolling until it produces viable results).
Cheers,
Cliff
Whatever agreements DAZ has - or has not - made with Optitex, that doesn't stop a third party from making a competing plugin. It could, in theory, prevent DAZ from making or funding a competing plugin themselves, but it doesn't bind zigraphix (or anyone else). The ability - both technical and legal - to make plugins for DAZ Studio is there. all that's needed is one or more people with the skill, and some money. And someone to manage the project (e.g. get it started in the first place and then keep it rolling until it produces viable results).
Cheers,
CliffToo true and it's not even necessarily the case that they will sell it through DAZ they could sell it elsewhere if DAZ are limited about selling a competing product.
Whatever agreements DAZ has - or has not - made with Optitex, that doesn't stop a third party from making a competing plugin. It could, in theory, prevent DAZ from making or funding a competing plugin themselves, but it doesn't bind zigraphix (or anyone else). The ability - both technical and legal - to make plugins for DAZ Studio is there. all that's needed is one or more people with the skill, and some money. And someone to manage the project (e.g. get it started in the first place and then keep it rolling until it produces viable results).
Cheers,
CliffToo true and it's not even necessarily the case that they will sell it through DAZ they could sell it elsewhere if DAZ are limited about selling a competing product.
Exactly. So we just need a programmer, or possibly more than one.
I've been monitoring this thread over the past week or so, and while I can't speak to every single issue raised in the thread, I would like to comment on the main topic - rigging skirts. The issue of how skirts are currently rigged (to the thigh) has come up in multiple software and content meetings (before this thread was even started) and it is something we are very serious about addressing. We want to make sure that the content we sell in our store is the very best, and making sure there is a system in place to properly rig skirts is important to us.
It's actually quite reassuring to hear that it's not being swept under the carpet, hehehe
Like I said in the forum it's not just the weight mapping that is tough. DS can't follow non-standard bones you have to re-rig it for every new morph, unless you can base it off a % formula where it takes the distance of the bone from the hip and repositions them based on the % of the scale of the morph being dialed up. Then you need to have specific name for the bones so it makes them easier to program. Well that's my 2c.
This is an incredibly good things to hear, thank you very much. I'd love to see some good tools and changes that allow better skirt rigging.
Like I said in the forum it's not just the weight mapping that is tough. DS can't follow non-standard bones you have to re-rig it for every new morph, unless you can base it off a % formula where it takes the distance of the bone from the hip and repositions them based on the % of the scale of the morph being dialed up. Then you need to have specific name for the bones so it makes them easier to program. Well that's my 2c.
I was thinking about making a control dial which will adjust the bone scaling manually via ERC to bigger scale or smaller scale. With ghost handle in skirts 100% precision to morph might not be needed, so it might be ok to have just a couple of adjustment dials per bone. It was a theory, anyway, I didn't yet have a chance to test it.
...this is why Daz Studio needs a Cloth Tab that lets the user create cloth dynamics.
I dream of Clothify options like in Poser, especially one that allows to clothify only a part of the outfit and/or can work with any obj. This is one of the few things that I truly miss in DS.
Bullet dynamics would be fun too. I mean, Carrara has Bullet dynamics, why can't DS have it?
Testing the concept of a control that is adjusting the handle bone.
I created a dial for front handle that moves the beginning of handle bone up and down via several simple steps in Joint Editor and ERC freeze.
First picture is a M4-M5-fied Genesis with Horned Barbarian skirt that has some handle movement (loincloth handles are remade to be front/back handles with two additional thigh handles that move only chains).
Second picture is same Genesis with added Freak 5 morph with the same handle movement. As you see the handle didn't auto-adjust along with Freak 5 upped scale.
Third picture is Genesis + Freak 5 but with adjustment control for front handle dialed positive - so start point of front handle bone goes up and worsens the situation.
Forth picture is Genesis + Freak 5 but with adjustment control for front handle dialed negative - so start point of front handle bone goes down and the front handle now is behaving the same or similar way as if it autoadjusted itself along with Freak 5 morph scale change.
I chose Freak 5 at random as an example of a massive morph that scales Genesis up. I didn't made ghost bone adjustments to match exactly this scale change, I just moved start point up and did ERC freeze for that with new control property.
So I think adding one/couple of dials per bone that move start point of ghost bone around isn't all that much work and beneficial effect is quite noticeable.
"There is a script that fixes double IDs "
What exactly did I just download? (clickable downloads would be nice to be noted- I thought it was a link to a page!) Not that I don't appreciate whatever I just got, but what did I get? LOL. I'm lost with this entire thing, so what exactly am I supposed to do with this and what does "fixing double IDs" mean? Thanks as usual :) And thanks for your fix, I will try that. (and link in my art studio links page, referenced from the very first page of my thread, in case anyone wants to find it faster than relocating this thread. The good stuff gets buried.) It's in my signature. I'll add that specific post in a few minutes.
cathie
Um, what should I call it? Put it under morphs and "Movement Morphs: Unfollow Legs From Skirt?" It has to be easy to find.
Sometimes when you create or/and modify the TriAx figures (like Genesis, G2F or their clothes) you get "Double IDs" error which can lead to annoying and/or unpredictable results when several TriAx figures are involved. This script fixes this error and resaves a good file (I think). It isn't mandatory in clothing creation and personally I mostly fix Double IDs via manual editing of dsf files but the script is faster and more user friendly than editing of code if those errors appear.
Thanks for the explanation :)
If DS 4.6 is allowing files to be saved with Duplicate IDs please make a bug report, attaching the saved file. My script won't help as it works on .dsf files, not .duf files (as far as I was aware, this was an issue only with legacy content from before DS 4.5).