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I left that prehistoric, limited mummy dead and buried along with the rest of the awful Generation 4 the day I tried Genesis and never looked back.
Trends in this market are, and always have been, driven by money. Do we see less "everyday" now? Very possibly. It is more likely because many content creators have tried every day products in the past with the older figures and not made the same volume of sales as they would have if the creative time had gone into yet another fantasy armor suitable for a Franzetta painting.
Obviously that's true, but at the same time it becomes a case of the market not being able to expand beyond that because there's not enough to support anything except said girls in Frazetta type armor. There's a large market for 3D animation in things like courtroom visualizations, medical sims, professional illustration, architectural rendering, storyboards, animatics and low budget commercials, and around the time that DS4 launched, DAZ was running a big promotion talking about professional uses for DAZ product. So at one point they were obviously shooting for that market, but they pulled that promo a good while back. The key thing is that it shouldn't be up to the individual content creators to pave the way to open those markets, that's the sort of big picture vision that requires a larger company like DAZ to make a longer term investment in.
I can still get a wide range of characters from V4 so I see no reason to leave her. Her wardrobe is bigger than mine so I don't foresee any immediate need for change and thankfully I know my software of choice well enough to get the most out of her (magnets, morph brush, cloth room, material room, etc) Besides, I'm not a purist 3d render supporter and not averse to postwork since I don't do animations.
If DAZ pulled back from it my guess would be that it was under preforming. There may be a market out there, but if those people do not not shop this market place in large enough numbers for products to pay decently then trying to cater to it is pointless. DAZ does not have a large staff of salaried modelers that can knock out products to try and build a market up that has not sold very well in the past. They have years of data on what sort of products sell and don't. If every day clothing sold well you can bet they would spend time encouraging those sorts of products because when PA's do well they do well.
I resisted for a while but I left V4 in the dust a while ago and I'm more or less happy. The only thing that is a bummer is that some of my favorite rendo artists are still on V4. I wish more people would switch so they'd develop poses/shapes for G/G2F xD
So long as there's decent products that catch my interest, I'll keep using V4.
Unless it's made with raisin or cheese bread or slathered with preserves (not jelly, preserves,) toast is actually much less nutritious than almost any sugar coated cereal. Toast made from plain white bread is one of the worst things you can eat, with no vitamins, half the fiber of a same-size portion of sugar frosted flakes, and double the sodium.
On the other hand "toast" for both Genesis and the Gen4 only comes with the Pro packs, which means you get far more than your recommended daily allowance of skimpwear and ridiculous pose packs with each serving.
Summation: Toast = bad for meals, good for porn.
This message brought to you from the 3d/Dietary Modeling Council.
I eat organic sprouted grain bread with 19 amino acids, it causes tattoos of battleships to magically become animated on my forearms and shoot things...
...wait, that's Popeye isn't it?
I think if DSON worked a lot better and/or DAZ Studio wasn't in a constant state of Beta... more folks would jump on the Genesis bandwagon.
With Genesis only working 100% in DAZ Studio... THAT has kept the gen4 people thriving. I'm not blaming DAZ or Smith-Micro... those are just the facts. In the past the new toy always worked in all platforms. Now, for whatever reason, the new toy is platform specific mainly.
The reason DAZ is having a year round sale now instead of before when it was maybe twice a year is... Genesis has split the customer base. Genesis sales are great, but if the entire DAZ Studio-Poser customer base was buying Genesis... there'd be no need for a never ending sales drive.
It's great for buyers... probably sucks for vendors who'd be making much more if they could sell their creations to the entire customer base.
I'm using gen4 and 3 100% but am very intrigued with the advances DAZ has made with their figures. I tried DAZ 4 and it's very wonky. I'm used to driving Poser which is a stick shift... and DAZ 4 is like driving a automatic car. It does a lot for you, but it also limits you. I'm disappointed in the new Poser versions though because they're trying to be more like high end apps than a hobbyist platform. Whereas DAZ offering high res morphing now... is a big sell for me.
If you could strip down Genesis so it's light... not a 200 meg file running with all morphs active... and same for clothes... if you are able to manipulate the people and clothes... I'd lean towards Genesis. I can do it very easily with Gen4.
The circumstances dictate folks preference... I believe.
NO.
I like the versatility of having the choice to use whichever model that best suits the needs of my render. My last render used the millennium
baby. The render before that, I used V3 and props from DAZ Studio version 1
I feel the same way. Genesis is by far more advanced than V4 will ever hope to be.
I love my Gen 4s, and with Poser Pro 2014 I am finding not only new things to do with the Gen 4s but even some older figures. With PP 2014 its like my whole runtime became brand new again, i keep finding old figures and props and thinking hmmmmmmmm what can i do with this? Lots of mad experiments going on over here hehehehe MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
It really depends on who enters when and what their tastes are. New people entering into 3D now may not bother looking back at older models and just buy what is new. Some may buy both or only buy older stuff. Too many varialbles to say really. Those who entered when the Gen4 models were top may not see a reason to stop using them and may either diregard the new or see them as an addon to their collection of useful figures. Those who entered during the time when Gen3 figures were top knotch can have the same view, new is good or of no use. Depeding on how far back you started will depend on what you have, how much you have and how useful it is to you. Also, depending on how content you are with your content will depend on how much you bother buying now. Those who know me here will know that I am an avid Aiko3 user. When the Gen4 stuff came out I really saw no use in getting them and while I do have some, its not anywhere close to my A3 stuff. Nevermind the rest of the Gen3 crowd. I did end up getting more Genesis stuff then V4 stuff but that is cause I made poses for the store here and needed outfits. As for G2F, I like the figure and the new shapes but I dont see myself using her. I've played around with her and tried doing stuff but in the end, I go back to Aiko3 cause that is the character I enjoy using the most. And why do art if you're not going to have fun while doing it?
It took me like 10 minutes to morph M4 into Popeye in Poser Pro 2014... and I had no idea what I was doing when I did this. I had just barely started experimenting with the morph brush. Its been a few weeks now. Now I know I could do a better job and faster than what it took to do this.
It really doesn't matter what figure you use, Gen 4, Genesis, Genesis 2, none of it matters, what matter is your own creativity. A creative mind will find a way to do what it is you want to do, using what ever you have at hand.
I'm liking V5 a lot.
Yeah, Victoria 5 is awesome.
It's not really a figure. It's a system. And I remember in my M4 days of how I used ask for some clothing to be made for M4 that existed for V4. With Genesis, haven't done it in years. And I've been able to snag clothing from other figures and use them as well. And that's one of the major points with genesis... make the character you want and you don't have to worry as much about how to clothe it. These days, the only people making money off those single figures before they fade are those that are making clothing and skin converters.... which does absolutely nothing toward supporting the survival of that figure.
And my eyes roll every time I read "we need more ethnic products for genesis" when I got a store full of them and I'm releasing ethnic morphs in the majority of my products. But honestly what you see a lot of is what sells the best; so for a vendor to make what you want, they'll have to accept a lower return on their investment, which I doubt many wish to do, and I don't fault them for that since I have a better understanding of that, now that I provide content.
I have so little experience with M4/V4 so it is hard for me to make a judgement. I will say that I keep buying/downloading M4/V4 clothing for that day I am inspired to take a stab at them, but generally I am very comfortable with Genesis. There are so many darn clothing options for V4 that have never made it to Genesis that it makes it really enticing to use V4 more.
No not leaving her behind she is all I can use I can't use Genesis even with the DSON hub bub it no worky. Also if I could use Genesis it will not import into Vue unless I jump through hoops and stand on my head. You see I have no time for that and want to enjoy my 3D experience instead of hand to hand combat to get things to work. Genesis is a DS platform pure and simple. It can be candy coated by this company all they want that it works on Poser. It does but not to its fullest potential as it does in Daz Studio. It comes down to what people can use effectively, what will work in the app they use and what works for them and to me it's all good leave it at that;-)
Why do I show as a new member? Joined 2003 doesn't look new to me. Is this what happens when you cancel your PC membership? You're demoted??? LOL!!!!!
It is based on the number of new posts on the boards.
Still mostly use V4 and M4 and have no complaints about them. Genesis didn't really solve any of the problems I had with them, so I barely use that figure. Pretty much only for weird and monstrous shapes, which is really cool, though. I have started to use Gen 6, though, much to my own surprise, although V6 has her quirks as well. Editing her mats is just a giant horrible pain thanks to the new feature of not sorting her mat zones by used map.
Thing is, I just have so many clothing items and characters for V4 that all other generations have a hard time even beginning to compare. I doubt Genesis will ever come to match that now that Genesis 2 is here and Genesis 2 will need a lot more support than it's getting now.
Part of the great thing about using Genesis for me is the ability to use all the V4 content that is available out there.
Some of my favorite textures, characters and poses come from V4.
The cross over is just about seamless for me.
Genesis wouldn't be half as exciting as it is without Generation 4.
After a long delay I finally invested a little money into Genesis 2 due to a couple of items during the PA sale.
A month and a half later I can honestly wish I had that money back.
Excruciating is the best description I have for the whole ordeal.
It literally sucks the creativity out of my skull just loading it up and get it compatible with my library.
But yes, that's just me. I know many who feel the same of my beloved Genesis1.
At the end of the day and time, I agree with most others.
I don't wish any Generation a death or discontinuation.
One artist I like only uses Aiko 3 ... forever and makes stunning/striking work.
Some of the most popular and skilled artists out there would never dream of touching anything but Generation 4.
Whatever fits your creativity and workflow best ... is exactly what you should support with words, use and, of course, money.
I remain a V4/M4 devotee, especially since I use the perfect V4 product along with her. Until Genesis losses the rubber-arm, no-bones look, I'm sticking with V4.
Latest V4 projects:
+1 on the creativity comment (and +2 on Popeye!) it's all about what you need to do and what lets you do it.
There are still some renders that are nothing short of astounding with Gen4 figures, and I have not seen anything with Genesis 1 or 2 that have made me say "these are better.", If I did I might find a use for them, but now they're just jacks of all trades, masters of none for what I'm working on.
Never experienced V4. My first introduction was Genesis. I like the versatility of an all in one figure. I like being able to design one outfit and have it work with any gender. I like being able to create more realistic figures with a blend of what people tend to think are gender exclusive traits. I like to be able to create creature morphs and apply genders to them. This is why I played with G2F when it first came out but quickly grew tired with its limitations and went back to Genesis 1. Having been spoiled by Genesis 1's versatility I can't imagine wanting to go backwards to V4.
G2F just seems to be a "how can we get people to rebuy all the stuff they had on Genesis" gimick than anything else. Since I don't buy content anyways the figure holds little interest for me and since any clothing I create for Genesis 1 will be compatible there's no point in making Genesis 2 exclusive items.
I will say this for G2F... it does pose exceptionally well, especially in "off balance" positions. The way the weight pivots on the hips is a definite improvement, and the feet are noticeably better in how they plant... though they still lack all the toe articulation that V4 has. That said, the only G2F figure I've bought so far is TeenJosie, as she fit a need that was in between a couple of the existing Genesis figures and the Pro Pack came with some excellent clothes and hairs that I knew I could bounce down to Genesis. Zev's Growing Up for Genesis does make her less relevant than she would be otherwise, but I imagine I'll use her frequently enough that I'm now considering V6 and Gia.
All that said, in the end what we're talking about are tools, and the improvements in the figures aren't really so much about look as in ease of use. If one is happy with the time and effort that it takes to get V4 into the proper pose and the draw she makes on your resources, there's no reason one has to upgrade. Oils didn't become obsolete when Acrylics were introduced, people still ride horses even though cars have mostly taken their place and there are a lot of people still using Photoshop 7 and XP rather than CS6 and 7/64. Likewise, if your system can't handle DSON well and you don't want to leave Poser, then you'd be foolish to go to Genesis. That's an area that DAZ really needs to get their bums in gear over if they want to expand the market.
On the other hand, I personally find that Genesis has increased my speed in setting up scenes by several hundred percent and has greatly reduced the amount of time I spend in postwork as well. That's partly due to less time spent fiddling with adjustment morphs and partly because I now pre-build costumes before coming up with the final character, save it as a preset and then load it onto whatever character I want without having to sorry about redoing all the fits if I've changed the proportions. The biggest plus, though, is that I can take any character I already have and re-proportion and age it to whatever new parameters I want with just a few dial spins. That's literally impossible with any other figure, including Genesis 2, and it insures that my characters never look exactly like anyone else's characters, which is never a bad thing.
Simply adore Genesis and V4- I have characters for both (Cassini and Giovana) so each are special. I do see the difference in the bending of the arms/legs and near the buttocks on V4 compared to Genesis, but camera angles can help all that, or I just soften the pose a bit. The amount of clothes for V4 is awesome, and can be placed without much tweaking for a lot of it, so V4 won't ever go away for me.
Genesis 2 has some nice characters and now a few family friendly outfits, but I do find it overall a joke so far as clothing options.
The question is like DVD or BluRay... We all have dvd players and a lot of dvds... But I can convert Gen4 character and say good bye to them.
Now that things like Zev0 morphs are available for Genesis 2, I am even saying goodbye to Genesis characters (I transfer morphs and character from v4, Gn to G2F).
Gen4 characters... I quited long time ago (since GenX was there). From Gen4 I only use contents.
I have and haven't really,
By that I mean that I use clothes and textures from V4 and have Gen X'ed a lot of my favourite characters so that I can use their heads with Genesis bodies. Once the G2 Male comes out and the respective Gen X for G2 comes out then we'll all have a lot more scope. I think the new advances mean that we don't have to leave Gen 4 behind entirely.
CHEERS!