Home 3d printers?
Mistara
Posts: 38,675
are the 3d printers ready for prime time?
looking for one that won't blow Santa's budget.
contemplating this one. https://smile.amazon.com/Function-Extruder-Precision-Printing-9-1x5-9x5-9/dp/B076BLQWHY
it says dual extrude, that's good right?
has anyone 3d printed the dragon3 or mildragon?
thanks!
Post edited by Mistara on
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I prefer resin printers over the filament ones. Mine is an Elegoo Mars: https://www.amazon.ca/ELEGOO-Photocuring-Off-line-Printing-Size-Black/dp/B07K33P3R9
I mostly use it to print minatures for fun and games and molecular models for work.
Here is an example of a DAZ render and the corresponding 3D print.
Ciao
TD
ooo that looks great. thanks for the link !
Here is one more shot of a few minis and molecular models I printed using two different resins.
ciao
TD
I have a resin that I use all the time and a filament one gathering dust. Resin is just better and easier than filament but you pay for it both in the initial cost and in the material.
If you're looking for bang for the buck filament is still the way to go. The trick is to get one with the features you'll really want. One that self levels will save a huge amount of time and effort. You want the finest nozzle yuou can get, mine is .4 mm and the difference between that and 0.5 is surprisingly noticeable. A heated plate is also a big plus.
Keep in mind whether you do resin or filament the biggest limit on what you can make is the printing dimensions. To get anything larger than an action figure you'll need to print in parts and assemble them yourself.
I primarily use mine for RPG miniatures and terrain so the size limits do not effect me very often but if you intend to print a 28mm dragon that would take a bunch of prints.
I think my brother has one, but I do not as honestly I do not think I have space for one. I want one, but have no where to put it at the moment. The dresser has a goldfish tank. The bed stand is too weak and feeble for holding anything much other than goldfish food. The desk already has a 32 inch tv on it. Maybe when I move out to a cheaper place to live I could finally save up funds to get one.
Not sure how much of a thing this is now, but early on most extrusion printers ran off of spools of materials which allows you to buy whatever brand you like... recently (sorta) some of the cheaper printers I was looking into ran off of proprietary cartridges or spools... that is an "F.Y." dealbreaker in my book, unless the material is magical, I don't want to get locked into a cartridge scheme like printer ink. Also consider if parts that wear out can be replaced easily by the user and not a "technician"... you don't want to end up getting what amounts to a disposable printer.
auto levelling sounds important
how's the cleanu up between resin and filament?
Thanks
Let me direct you to this site ... https://all3dp.com/ Check reviews, etc ..plus TONS of great ideas and articles on 3D printing.
I bought an Ender 3 in October. Initial setup a bit much ... There are some weaknesses in part quality, etc ... but, it is $200. Can print 8.5 inch pice, 9.8 inches tall. Pretty big actually.
Print quality very decent. There are folks, once you figure out speicifcs, which you will need to do with any 3D printer, that rival resin. There is an Ender 3 Pro which makes some improvements.. I would buy that now.
The great with this printer is that it is open source, so a lot of add ons have been created.
https://www.creality3dofficial.com/
Do check out the reviews and stories on the link above though. There are a lot of 3D filament printers that are pretty inexpensive.
It produces a very smooth print rather than the much rougher layered look produced by filament printers and almost never goes wrong in the ways filament printers do.
Also neither filament nor resin printers should be used in a poorly ventilated space. They both emit fumes that can be bad for you. I do wear gloves when pouring resin and clean up any spills but why would you leave liquid plastic on any surface?
You'll need solvent for filament or resin printing. Without using solvent a filament print has very visible layers.
Working with resin is trivial as long as you follow instructions and use a bit of common sense. You simply wear disposable gloves and use paper towels for cleanup. Just make sure the work area is well ventilated. But that applies to any 3D printer. The cleaning solution is just isopropyl alcohol and I simply collect the used stuff in a container and dispose of it at the local recycling center hazardous waste drop-off when its full. Easy. Then again, I am a chemist and hence used to working with chemicals, so your comfort level might vary.
I find resin prints have a better resolution and overall quality when comparing printers in the same price range. resins come in many different colours and the resins from different manufacturers can usually be used on any printer.
Ciao
TD
What about ones that do color printing? Are they any good? There's one for less than $1k, although it's a bit too small.
Thanks. I didn't know filament needed solvent also. Dang.
Back in my "government" job, I was the hazmat guy and the ammo guy, but I never really felt comfortable around that stuff. I'll still keep both options open though. Thanks for the info.
I know there are some FDM that dye the filament as its extruded but I've never seen or used one. I just print what I want and paint it it.
For filament you use solvent to smooth out the print or to remove supports. You can use sanding and physical removal of supports to get most of the same effects.
zthe filament comes in a lot of colors. it is possible to use dual or even 4 extruders to print in color ... more expensive than just a single. Its a great time to learn how to paint
I ended up using white. Grey looks pretty good too. There are products to fill in between the lines, but I use .2mm layers and its not bad. You can keep reducing the size of the layers, and it looks mighty nice, but also increases print time.
Wood filler even works, then you just sand it down, prime, and paint. Or if you just needed painted one color, same deal. The colored filament comes out nice as one color. You can get metal colors, silk looking, wood, and even marble. There is some that glows in the dark or even flexible.
PLA is supposedly non-toxic, and is used the most, but fumes are fumes. PLA : Polylactic acid or polylactide (PLA) is a thermoplastic aliphatic polyester derived from renewable resources, such as corn starch (in the United States), tapioca roots, chips or starch (mostly in Asia), or sugarcane (in the rest of the world).
I have an Anycubic Photon UV cure resin printer, and it is superb. I have produced a number of models of Glamorous Vickie 3. The resolution is 0.25mm, and is the minimum you'd find acceptable for a good statuette. The filament printers can't approach that resolution.
I have found a downside to my printer, though. It turns out that I am allergic to the Anycubic resin, whether cured or uncured. I am not allergic to the Monocure version of the resin, which has a different chemistry. However, the resin is softer, won't polish and is double the price..
Regards,
Richard.
Your machine will only take the Anycubic? I know there are some machines that have to scan a chip embedded in the bottle just not sure which printers and which resins. I bought the monoprice printer and use their resin which is cheaper than Anycubic.
The Photon doesn't have that sort of thing. You do have to set the resin parameters in the slicer, and that can be a matter of guesswork for the first few models if no-one else has published the parameters for that resin on the web.
It really is a good machine, despite my problems with the resin.
Regards,
Richard.
Check the Photon S resin printer. That thing has a tiny footprint!
https://www.anycubic.com/collections/huge-sale/products/anycubic-photon-s
Have you tried their vegetable based resin?
https://www.anycubic.com/collections/uv-resin/products/anycubic-plant-based-uv-resin
The Photon S has ventilation fans with charcoal filters. I don't smell anything when using it.
I haven't tried it. Maybe I ought to. Hopefully I won't be allergic to the stuff.
Regards,
Richard.
Its actually very overrated by the sounds of things chech this review out he speaks about at around 6 minutes
Mod edit to sort out the quoting
Wow, thanks for the info! I had no idea that was availble -- the last time I looked at resin printers was over a year ago.
-- Walt Sterdan
My first printer was a kit with manual leveling. It never worked, period. No amount of fiddling got it level and it ruined print after print.
My second printer came with autoleveling. It ran when I first set it up, and I've run it a couple of times when I've moved the printer. And gave me perfect prints, at least as far as that goes, every time.
Maybe for a guy who has lots of printers and does reviews of them on YT autoleveling is no big deal but if you check reviews of printers with and without the feature I think you'll come away with a different asnwer.
As you can see by the answers above, I think the answer's a resounding "yes", they're ready for prime time.
As to what printer to buy? Like computers or programs, it all depends on your needs. All have Pros and Cons. For any printer you're interested in, take a little time and you'll find lots of video review and it's worth the time to watch some of them. There's so much free knowledge out there, it's amazing.
As pointed out above, resin-based printers deliver the highest quality of print, but the materieals are much more expensive, they're messier, and hae a lower print volume. If you're focused on gaming miniatures, they'll deliver the best overall quality, thoush as someone pointed out many users of FDM printers can achieve very, very similar results. A lot of issues with layer lines is eliminated with priming and painting.
You don't need a solvent with PLA -- some people use it as a mist to smooth out the outer layer to give it a smooth, glossy finish similar to the look of resin, but that's a small percentage of the users.
I jumped into 3D printing only 14 months ago; at the time, a resin printer was a no-go -- I don't have a print area condusive to it (no room for handling the chemicals or disposal and no room with adequate ventilation) and the toxicitiy of the fumes would no doubt have done my wife in. The smells from an FDM printer are minimal (and often pleasant) and while there are very fine micro particles emitted while printing, I have a desktop ionizer/air purifier sitting between the printers that hopefully takes care of that. Had the plant-bsed resins that Petercat mentioned been around, I might have drifted that way but probably still would have gone with the FDM printers simply because of material cost and print volume. WHile most of what I print stays within the resin-base print volumes, I am finding more and more uses for larger things. I'm currently printing 12" x 12" 2-colour privacy panels for some of our sunroom windows; I'm printing them 0.9 mm thick in translucent colours and the cost of a panel is under $2 each, cheaper than buying rolls of vinyl covering.
Besides print volume, there is a large variety of materials available, should you ever decide you wanted to try something different, like PLA with wood or metal partcles infused in them, flexible materials like TPU, and so on. The printer you mentioned has dual-extruders, which allows you to either mix colours or materials. By using PLA for your model, for example, you can use the other extruder for your supports using PVA or PETG. PVA is water soluble, but expensive and eliminates the need for support removal and greatly reduces (if not eliminates) the need for sanding. PETG is roughly the same price as PLA and doesn't stick well to PLA, so your supports will pop off fairly cleanly.
As mentioned above, auto-levelling is nice (very, very nice), depending on implemenation, but while very convenient, it's not a deal-braker for me. My first printer was an AnyCubic i3 Mega, without auto-levelling, but taking a couplel of minutes every 10-20 prints to level it isn't too bad. My second printer was an MP Mini-Delta (I'm fascinated by the Deltas) and it auto-levels everytime it starts a print. Despite it being the noisiest and smallest of my printers, as long as something fits in it's print volume I actually use it the most for small, quick prints. My wife bought it for me last Christmas for it's regular $239 (Canadian) and I liked it so much I bought another one this Christmas for myself when Amazon had a limited-time deal for $143 (Canadian). It has a 0.05 mm print resolution, and if you put on a smaller nozzle (e.g. 0.04 mm is the standard, but you can put on 0.01, 0.02, 0.03, etc.) and using 0.05 mm layer size while slowing the printer down, you can do some very fine miniature printing.
My third printer, an FLSun-QQ, is a tall delta printer and the quietest I own. You autolevel it once when you set it up and it keeps that levelling in memeory (the print beds don't move on Delta printers, so once levelled they usually stay that way for quite a while, after whch you can auto-level it again).
Something I find more important than auto-levelling is the finish on the print bed. Anycubic introduced their "Ultrabase" coating, which has a very fine mesh on top of the glass plate that expands when heated -- allowing the plastic to ooze into the "pores" and stick well -- and contracts when fully cooled (where the "pores" contract and push the plastic out, so prints lift off of the bed without any effort). Other printer manufacters have been coming out with similar beds and it's one thing I really look for. It's the one thing my Mini-Deltas are missing. I've never had to use glue stick, tape or hair spray on any of this type of printing bed.
I had actually looked at the same printer as you this fall, but I started to lean towards this one instead:
https://www.amazon.ca/GEEETECH-Mix-Color-Integrated-Break-resuming-255×255×255mm³/dp/B07K1FLZ9T/ref=sr_1_41?keywords=3d+printer&qid=1577335473&sr=8-41
I'd planned on adding this (their equivalent to Anycubic's Ultrabase):
https://www.amazon.ca/Geeetech-Superplate-Glass-Platform-235mmx235mmx4mm/dp/B07RXXYCP2/ref=sr_1_18?qid=1577370554&sr=8-18&srs=10038541011
And this to give the printer auto-levelling:
https://www.amazon.ca/Geeetech-Leveling-Precision-Improves-Printing/dp/B07RVMV8ZM/ref=sr_1_26?qid=1577370629&sr=8-26&srs=10038541011
I thought that would check off all the "wants" on my list for a new 3D printer. I eventually opted for another path, but that's another story.
I haven't printed the dragon per se, but I did print a test of the Dragonfolk the first week or two I started printing, image attached.
As well, here's a few samples of things that show a bit of variety, like some Christmas Tealight holdes I made for Christmas gifts this year, and a couple of 6"-plus prints. The prints of the large, orange figures are just under 6" each (there's a 3" character for scale); what's important to note is that when I printed them, I printed four characters characters on the print bed at once, which really makes things easier.
The white print is of my daughter, it's 7-inches tall and a quick, low-res print like this cost me under $1.50 (Canadian) to print. The low cost of PLA alllows me to do a lot of "playing" and experimenting.
- Walt Sterdan
Duplicate post, sorry.
When I got my first printer, I spent about two weeks of holiday printing non-stop. As I was just learning, I did a lot of quick test prints of varous DAZ models with both an eye to prinitng gaming miniatures as well as larger charcters for ornaments and such. As a result, I didn't print anything with an eye for final detail and high quality. I was strictly interested in what would print without any extra work, and what I needed to do to get things to print properly (e.g. what knid of supports, how many supports and where, how do differnt PLAs work at what settings, etc.) and how different DAZ models worked (I have one pict attached with Genesis, Genesis 3, Chip and Cookie, and Toon Gen 1 characters, for example). As a result I printed a few hundred pieces at various sizes, but all are printed a standard 0.04 mm nozzle and a 1.0 mm layer height and at default speed. I've learned a lot since then, and I could print any of these much, much better now by usins a smaller nozzle, a 0.05 mm layer heght and dropping the speed. Some PLAs work better for me than others, but all do an okay job. I've purchased a muilti-colour splicer and plan on doing multi-colour prints this year, so I'm expecting to spend a lot of time makng huge mistkes.
Attached are a batch of pirnts from that first two weeks, testing different sizes of miniatures for gaming, some modular walls and floors of a spacehip interior (they make hundreds of models, all set up for printing and for both fantasy and sci fi) for gaming that click together to make up whatever layout your game requires (including props ike talbe sand chairs, contorls consoles, food and drink, skulls and skeletons, etc.), multi-characters scenes, and so on. As I mentioend above, a resin printer would print any of these items (if they fit thd build volume) at a much higher quality with minimal-to-no adjustement, right out of the box. Now that Petercat has filled me in on plant-based resins, I'll have to take another look at the Anycubic printer and disposal of waste material. PLA is pretty clean and easy, as it's biodegradable.
What's important to note is that all of these are basically print/clip supports/forget, there's no sanding or clean-up done to any of them outside of removing the supports. As well, I tend to work with less-detailed, toonish models, but if you have anything you'd really like to see printed, let me know and If I have the models (or something similar) I'll print it and post a pict.
What I did learn, that might be important, is that I found the very worst miniature I printed was still better quality and detail than most of the metal miniatures I purchase back in the 80s, and that if someone who knew what they were doing took them and sanded/primed/painted them they'd be pretty decent. My cost for the average miniature I print at 28 mm height is usually less than 5 cents (more expensive, metal-infused or translucent material can push that up to 10 to 12 cents).
There are thousands of people out there printing much, much higher qualtiy with the same printers I'm using, so view my images as being from a newbie, not someone who actually knows what they're doing, and extrapolate.
-- Walt Sterdan
adorale characters.
i was just looking at 33d printed trees. now i insipired to print a whole village lol