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Making renders but using other people's assets....

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  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited February 2020
    SnowSultan said:

    interesting philosophy ?  What about music or musicians are they artist? are they still artist if they play someone else song instead of one they wrote?

     

    I was going to bow out of this discussion because we're all basically on the same side here, but if you want a reply, here goes - and it's a blunt one, but of course it's just my personal opinion. No, I do not call musicians "artists", they're musicians. Every person who is talented in a specific creative field doesn't need to also be referred to as an "artist". It's almost as if the name of what they choose to do apparently isn't good enough, so they have to tack 'artist' on to sound important. One should be proud of being called a musician, a chef, an animator, a dancer, or a singer. Those are all very worthy creative pursuits, and as I've said before, I consider myself an "assembler" because I DO NOT place myself among them or those who I consider to be artists.

    There's no right or wrong answer here, and that's why these threads go around in circles. We're all creative here, and we do not look down on each other for using pre-made content like others in the larger 3D community might. That's what's important.

    I like people who are blunt and to the point. we need more of them  :)  I like that you see the world differently

    According to Quory Music Producers  "All musicians are artists; not all artists are musicians. By definition, an artist is an individual who deliberately manipulates a medium for expressive purpose. The medium for musicians is sound, of course. Other mediums can be visual, audio (non-musical), dance, writing--you name it." all under the umbrella term Artist.

    & even the business end of the music industry would disagree with you about musicians not being artist.  https://www.businessinsider.com/best-selling-music-artists-of-all-time-2016-9

    Artist can apply to anyone , Artist means according to the merriam-webster dictionary

    Definition of artist

    1a : one who professes and practices an imaginative art

    b : a person skilled in one of the fine arts

    2 : a skilled performer especially : artiste

    3 : one who is adept at something con artist strikeout artist

    4a obsolete : one skilled or versed in learned arts

    b archaic : physician

    c archaic : artisan sense 1

     

    So my answer still remains Yes you can use other peoples models you have bought and make a scene with it and you can still be considered a artist.  you did not make the model, but you did create the scene the model resides in. making the image your own.

    Thank you for your refreshing candor, smileyyes

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited February 2020
    kyoto kid said:
    Ivy said:
    SnowSultan said:

    I've disagreed with the majority when this discussion comes up because I also don't really like to call myself an "artist". I think that word is thrown around way too much these days, and I like to reserve using it to describe those with more 'manual' and classic artistic skills (those who can draw, paint, (digitally or traditionally), sculpt, etc). The "did you make the canvas" defense is silly to me because we could call ourselves anything if we took things that far. Am I a chef because I microwave a frozen dinner?

    I'll say I'm a digital or 3D artist to people to keep conversations simple, but if I need to go into detail, I'll call myself an "assembler".

    interesting philosophy ?  What about music or musicians are they artist? are they still artist if they play someone else song instead of one they wrote?

    I play Guitar and Piano . I rarely right my own music and i love playing cover songs of  classic rock and i am rather good at even if i say so myself.  So as a musician  does that not make me a artist even though I am playing someone else song they wrote? I am still playing all the correct notes myself ,  its not like anyone can just pick up a guitar and start playing it like they been playing all their life . it does take some practice. so is a musician that plays other artist written songs not a real musician? because they did not right the music?

    Isn't daz sort of the same way? you might not have actually made the assets you bought and use. , but you can use someone elses assets to create something new that was never seen before , would that not take a artist talent to do that?  even though they did not make the assets.

    this is video of me playing music & in this video it kind of sounds like a whole band playing with me, but I am just using a keyboard & guitar.. does this not make me a artist?   But wait I did not right the song. so by your standards even though I played and recorded everything myself but i did not right the song I would not be a artist..... hows that work agian?

    click to play

     

    what about animation? are animators a artist?  Animators rarely make their own assets, it would just be to much work for what its worth. But are animators artist though? even if they they use someone elses models and assets to create the animated story? it still need to be put all together animated and then rendered and edited . they may have not made the model or did the voice acting etc. but they used the assets they bought as a tool. Or as a means to get the end results.    the model maker does not do that.  that is the animator that does that. So does that not make a animator a artist even though they are using tons of other artist assets to complete the animation?

    The way I see daz content, is as a tool or asset use to create art. I may have bought the asset. but its still a tool or asset just like a paint brush use to acomplish a task of painting a image I did not make the brush But i did apply the strokes to create the painting., I feel as someone that uses daz studio for animation.  that I am indeed a artist even though I did not make the assets I use in my story

    click to play

     

    Drops The mic and walks off stage

    ...agh having a few momentary buffering issues (wonder if it's the site) but that sounded great. So I take it you set up all the accompaniment tracks on the keyboard.

    Used to play keyboard (Piano Harpsichord and organ) Loved old cinema organs because they were essentially a "one person orchestra". Wrote and improvised a few works  but for the most part performed compositions by others.

    Thank you KK, These are old music demos i did . I don;t dare to post any new ones on youttube anymore they become to strict about posting music. .

    But I do I playa old RMS 81 key - keyboard that I can change the type of instrument sound it plays, like strings or organ. It has a rhythm preset section. but i prefer to make my own drum tracks   I have a H2n Zoom  portable studio  I use for reocring sound fx for my animations that I also use in my music room. off to the side out of the picture there is a Peavey  12 track sound board that connect to a 400watt PA  that I plug the H2n recorder into.  

    so I usually start with the drum beat , play a track of piano  and then another track for bass and so on  then record the whole mess with the H2n recorder through the PA so I can mix the sound to make it more even.

    old school way of doing things compared to the new sound boards with Ai computer apps . those are sweet set ups

    This one is a very old cover of Rush 2112 temple of zyrnix I did in my living room of my old house. so the sounds a little off.  I'm still ripping and shreds :)

     

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,596

    Thanks.  :)   I admit that literally, according to dictionary definitions and general usage of the word 'artist', I am wrong. It's just how I personally choose to use the word and who I apply it to. For example, I have a friend from Poland who can draw characters in anime, Disney, or any western style, can paint on canvas, draw hyper-realistic pencil illustrations, write stories, and play the piano. I'm good at posing 3D figures, doing minor to moderate texture editing in Photoshop and Substance Painter, doing major color corrective postwork and fixes in Photoshop, and kitbashing 3D content that other people made. She's an artist, I am...up for debate.   ;)

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited February 2020
    SnowSultan said:

    Thanks.  :)   I admit that literally, according to dictionary definitions and general usage of the word 'artist', I am wrong. It's just how I personally choose to use the word and who I apply it to. For example, I have a friend from Poland who can draw characters in anime, Disney, or any western style, can paint on canvas, draw hyper-realistic pencil illustrations, write stories, and play the piano. I'm good at posing 3D figures, doing minor to moderate texture editing in Photoshop and Substance Painter, doing major color corrective postwork and fixes in Photoshop, and kitbashing 3D content that other people made. She's an artist, I am...up for debate.   ;)

    That is why I said I like how you see the world differently. that makes you a artist in your own right. Its totally cool & I totally get your opinion on artist . I have a lot of friends that think as you.   but if you are going main stream meaning .The truth to the word "Artist" can mean anyone doing anything. by using anything. even in collaborations using other peoples "Stuff"   I know it sounds so PC like everyone get a trophy type thing.  But it apply to anyone doing anything or using anythingas a medium

    The beauty of art all resides in the eye,(or ear) of the beholder. So to what art maybe worth. depends on one persons trash is anothers treasures and whos willing to pay for it. . But artist can truly be anyone doing anything.   not my definition .. that is societies laugh

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,220

    Subway have sandwich artists

  • mwokeemwokee Posts: 1,275

    Apparently in some eyes I'm not an artist if I'm using elements created by others. I even "cheat" by incorporating images from the public domain. But since my renders and composites are generating an income, that makes me a professional. cheeky

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,011

    Well, the thing is, words mean things.

    Look up art in the dictionary. It's not specific. By definition.

     

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    Subway have sandwich artists

    Yumcheeky

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,058

    I guess now that I think about it, I'm kind of on the same page as SnowSultan. I've been a musician all my life, and I definitely think of music as an artform, and myself an artist, but usually when I say "art", I'm referring to some sort of visual medium like painting, sculpting, etc. 

  • plasma_ringplasma_ring Posts: 1,025

    One of the most liberating things about working at a large-ish company in a creative field was realizing that a lot of the stuff considered "cheating" at one level is just...how stuff gets done in commercial art. I'm always reminded of people freaking out when they discovered the sharks in the Aquaman poster were sourced from stock photos, as though stock photos don't exist for exactly that purpose. It's really, really hard to be precious about art when you're being paid to do a ton of it very fast; the result is what matters. And after years of fretting over what constitutes the soul of real art because that's what I was taught growing up, thinking in terms of results has done more for making it easy for me to experiment and improve than anything else. There's nothing inherently valuable about tools or effort to an audience, unless the goal of a piece is to display craftsmanship. 

    Any finished piece of art tends to have some level of collaboration, even if it's invisible. All marketplaces like this do is let people outsource the collaborative aspects and ensure the other artists are fairly paid, and it goes all the way down with stuff like merchant resources, seamless texture packs, etc. In modern 3D's case I'd argue it opened up a new field of art, since rendering wasn't always considered its own discipline. This usually results in more vibrant work over time as people specialize. Another example is the increased value and quality of video game stories as narrative design and game writing became specialized positions instead of something a combat designer was expected to stub in.

    @amyw12 If someone ever does try to tell you you're just "putting stuff together" for commissions and not making real art: something I like to keep handy is an itemized breakdown of every product that went into making one of my fanart character models. To create him from scratch, having just started to build a library, would cost about $300. When people commission you they're getting the benefits of your library, even before factoring in your labor and skill. There are so many tiny things that improve a render that you might just have laying around--how many of those would cost $10-20 to buy outright from the store? How much time would the person need to learn the program and get the results you can? How many unique light sets and morphs do you have, how many tools that make scenes faster and easier to put together?

    I actively encourage people who seem even slightly interested in the program itself to try it before commissioning me, but man can it ever be an expensive hobby. I compare it to cosplay before anything else, because it costs about the same and involves a similar level of putting existing things together to look like something you want. At the very least it takes materials and the effort to assemble them.

    Also in my experience, people who engage in that kind of hostile negging toward artists are just trying to get free pictures. laugh

  • DripDrip Posts: 1,192

    Something you assemble by combining assets from other persons in your own unique manner can, by all means, be considered your work.

    Whether you should call it art is entirely upto you. I personally call stuff I create my work, and refuse to call it art, since I do not wish to be associated in even the remotest manner with people who make crap like this:

  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,608

    Art is creation. If you use a computer, or a paint brush or a camera to create art. The medium does not matter, it is the creation of something that matters. If you are having trouble figuring out what to create? Think like a child with paper and crayons. What makes you happy? What do you want to convey?  Most people are too critical of their own work!!! Once again do children care about how technically profecient they are with their doodles? A big fat NO! They are having the time of their lives creating something!!! Art is a never ending journey not a destination.

  • eshaesha Posts: 3,240

    Heh. The old, old discussion, and it doesn't cease to be interesting smiley

    It all depends on how you define "art", and I think that is very subjective and probably varies from person to person.

    There are acclaimed artists who splash paint or other liquids onto a canvas, others tape a banana to a wall, others wrap whatever object happens to be there... is that art? They all probably have a message, whether they get it across or not depends to a large extent on the recipient. I don't get the point of such artworks but others do.

    I rather like the definition on Wikipedia:

    Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative, conceptual ideas, or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power.

    Also, things that were not intended as artworks can become art over time. Take all the commissioned portraits (the equivalent of photography in former times), for example, that were only intended for personal use, but which we now admire as art in various museums. Take Mucha's posters that were designed as advertisements but are still in print nowadays, even though the products they promote don't exist anymore - they've moved from commercial illustrations to artworks, appreciated for their beauty.

    I also think, personally, that "artist" does not so much describe a set of skills but rather a certain mindset. Not everyone feels the urge to create something, to express themselves via images/writing/music, and not everyone can understand the joy of being creative.

    So it seems it depends on us, individually, whether we want to apply the term "artist" to ourselves or not smiley

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 7,051
    Ivy said:
    SnowSultan said:

    interesting philosophy ?  What about music or musicians are they artist? are they still artist if they play someone else song instead of one they wrote?

     

    I was going to bow out of this discussion because we're all basically on the same side here, but if you want a reply, here goes - and it's a blunt one, but of course it's just my personal opinion. No, I do not call musicians "artists", they're musicians. Every person who is talented in a specific creative field doesn't need to also be referred to as an "artist". It's almost as if the name of what they choose to do apparently isn't good enough, so they have to tack 'artist' on to sound important. One should be proud of being called a musician, a chef, an animator, a dancer, or a singer. Those are all very worthy creative pursuits, and as I've said before, I consider myself an "assembler" because I DO NOT place myself among them or those who I consider to be artists.

    There's no right or wrong answer here, and that's why these threads go around in circles. We're all creative here, and we do not look down on each other for using pre-made content like others in the larger 3D community might. That's what's important.

    I like people who are blunt and to the point. we need more of them  :)  I like that you see the world differently...

    .... 

     

    Artist can apply to anyone , Artist means according to the merriam-webster dictionary

    Definition of artist

    1a : one who professes and practices an imaginative art

    b : a person skilled in one of the fine arts

    2 : a skilled performer especially : artiste

    3 : one who is adept at something con artist strikeout artist

    4a obsolete : one skilled or versed in learned arts

    b archaic : physician

    c archaic : artisan sense 1

     

    If you like blunt...

    There is only one definition of an Artist...

    Artist (art•ist /ärdezt/): noun. A highly trained individual who photographs potatoes.

     

    I'm going to keep beating this joke to death...

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 7,051
    Silver Dolphin said:

    Art is creation. If you use a computer, or a paint brush or a camera to create art. The medium does not matter, it is the creation of something that matters. If you are having trouble figuring out what to create? Think like a child with paper and crayons. What makes you happy? What do you want to convey?  Most people are too critical of their own work!!! Once again do children care about how technically profecient they are with their doodles? A big fat NO! They are having the time of their lives creating something!!! Art is a never ending journey not a destination.

    • "The media does not matter..."  The media does matter... Potatoes... Always potatoes...

    • "If you are having you are having trouble figuring out what to create..."   If you have a potato you'll never need to think about what to create... or worry about what to eat... you can't eat oil pastels or acrylic paints... well, you could, but they stain your teeth and make you gassy.

    • "Think like a child"...  I always think like a child with crayons and matches... I'm doing it right now...

    • "What makes you happy?"… Potatoes... 

    • "What do you want to convey?"... The meaning of potato... the joy of potato... potatoness.

    The rest of that I agree with... but just stick "potato" and "potatoes" in there wherever it seems appropriate.

     

    This joke is probably getting old... 

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    McGyver said:
    Ivy said:
    SnowSultan said:

    interesting philosophy ?  What about music or musicians are they artist? are they still artist if they play someone else song instead of one they wrote?

     

    I was going to bow out of this discussion because we're all basically on the same side here, but if you want a reply, here goes - and it's a blunt one, but of course it's just my personal opinion. No, I do not call musicians "artists", they're musicians. Every person who is talented in a specific creative field doesn't need to also be referred to as an "artist". It's almost as if the name of what they choose to do apparently isn't good enough, so they have to tack 'artist' on to sound important. One should be proud of being called a musician, a chef, an animator, a dancer, or a singer. Those are all very worthy creative pursuits, and as I've said before, I consider myself an "assembler" because I DO NOT place myself among them or those who I consider to be artists.

    There's no right or wrong answer here, and that's why these threads go around in circles. We're all creative here, and we do not look down on each other for using pre-made content like others in the larger 3D community might. That's what's important.

    I like people who are blunt and to the point. we need more of them  :)  I like that you see the world differently...

    .... 

     

    Artist can apply to anyone , Artist means according to the merriam-webster dictionary

    Definition of artist

    1a : one who professes and practices an imaginative art

    b : a person skilled in one of the fine arts

    2 : a skilled performer especially : artiste

    3 : one who is adept at something con artist strikeout artist

    4a obsolete : one skilled or versed in learned arts

    b archaic : physician

    c archaic : artisan sense 1

     

    If you like blunt...

    There is only one definition of an Artist...

    Artist (art•ist /ärdezt/): noun. A highly trained individual who photographs potatoes.

     

    I'm going to keep beating this joke to death...

    Not True. You can't eat a picture of a potato, though some pictures look like they have been taken with a potato.

    & some folks called chefs peel and cook potato's and make creative dishes of tasty cuisine,from them.  The"Potato" not just for photographing anymore.  who knew?!

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 7,051
    edited February 2020
    Ivy said:
    McGyver said:
    Ivy said:
    SnowSultan said:

    interesting philosophy ?  What about music or musicians are they artist? are they still artist if they play someone else song instead of one they wrote?

     

    I was going to bow out of this discussion because we're all basically on the same side here, but if you want a reply, here goes - and it's a blunt one, but of course it's just my personal opinion. No, I do not call musicians "artists", they're musicians. Every person who is talented in a specific creative field doesn't need to also be referred to as an "artist". It's almost as if the name of what they choose to do apparently isn't good enough, so they have to tack 'artist' on to sound important. One should be proud of being called a musician, a chef, an animator, a dancer, or a singer. Those are all very worthy creative pursuits, and as I've said before, I consider myself an "assembler" because I DO NOT place myself among them or those who I consider to be artists.

    There's no right or wrong answer here, and that's why these threads go around in circles. We're all creative here, and we do not look down on each other for using pre-made content like others in the larger 3D community might. That's what's important.

    I like people who are blunt and to the point. we need more of them  :)  I like that you see the world differently...

    .... 

     

    Artist can apply to anyone , Artist means according to the merriam-webster dictionary

    Definition of artist

    1a : one who professes and practices an imaginative art

    b : a person skilled in one of the fine arts

    2 : a skilled performer especially : artiste

    3 : one who is adept at something con artist strikeout artist

    4a obsolete : one skilled or versed in learned arts

    b archaic : physician

    c archaic : artisan sense 1

     

    If you like blunt...

    There is only one definition of an Artist...

    Artist (art•ist /ärdezt/): noun. A highly trained individual who photographs potatoes.

     

    I'm going to keep beating this joke to death...

    Not True. You can't eat a picture of a potato, though some pictures look like they have been taken with a potato.

    & some folks called chefs peel and cook potato's and make creative dishes of tasty cuisine,from them.  The"Potato" not just for photographing anymore.  who knew?!

    Hmm... you speak the truth... perhaps I should try sculpting with potatoes... 

    Maybe Roy Neary wasn't so crazy sculpting Devil's Tower in mashed potatoes after all?... 

    I have a pail of KFC "mashed potatoes" in the refrigerator... let's see what I can make.

    Post edited by McGyver on
  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,471

    Are you allowed to call a potato sculpture your own work if you are using a potato from KFC, mashed potatoes that someone else made. Don't you feel like a sham because you didn't grow the potatoes used in it.

    Yes, you may sculpt the potatoes, but the potato is from KFC, and they even got it from someone else.

    Do you feel like you are deceiving people. I don't even know how you should feel. Are you allowed to call yourself a potato artist if this is what you do? Forget about whether or not something has artistic value. At the very base of it, can one call their potato sculpture their own art if they use premade mashed potatoes?

    So where do we draw the line here?

  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    McGyver said:
    Ivy said:
    SnowSultan said:

    interesting philosophy ?  What about music or musicians are they artist? are they still artist if they play someone else song instead of one they wrote?

     

    I was going to bow out of this discussion because we're all basically on the same side here, but if you want a reply, here goes - and it's a blunt one, but of course it's just my personal opinion. No, I do not call musicians "artists", they're musicians. Every person who is talented in a specific creative field doesn't need to also be referred to as an "artist". It's almost as if the name of what they choose to do apparently isn't good enough, so they have to tack 'artist' on to sound important. One should be proud of being called a musician, a chef, an animator, a dancer, or a singer. Those are all very worthy creative pursuits, and as I've said before, I consider myself an "assembler" because I DO NOT place myself among them or those who I consider to be artists.

    There's no right or wrong answer here, and that's why these threads go around in circles. We're all creative here, and we do not look down on each other for using pre-made content like others in the larger 3D community might. That's what's important.

    I like people who are blunt and to the point. we need more of them  :)  I like that you see the world differently...

    .... 

     

    Artist can apply to anyone , Artist means according to the merriam-webster dictionary

    Definition of artist

    1a : one who professes and practices an imaginative art

    b : a person skilled in one of the fine arts

    2 : a skilled performer especially : artiste

    3 : one who is adept at something con artist strikeout artist

    4a obsolete : one skilled or versed in learned arts

    b archaic : physician

    c archaic : artisan sense 1

     

    If you like blunt...

    There is only one definition of an Artist...

    Artist (art•ist /ärdezt/): noun. A highly trained individual who photographs potatoes.

     

    I'm going to keep beating this joke to death...

    My problem is I am probably a potato so can potatoes still photograph potatoes?
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,011

    It's just leaves on the ground that someone raked, totally not art, right?

  • amyw12amyw12 Posts: 63

    OK art is one thing, but what about to the original question of how much credit you can take in your render for using premade assets? Because this thread was not made for discussion about what constitutes as art or not and whether or not you are an artist due to your artistic value, because that is all subjective. Moreso interested in how much you can claim is your own artwork credit-wise, since you are using premade assets. Also originally wondering if you could call yourself an artist not because of artistic value but again, credit-wise as you are using premade assets.

    Good responses but I was hoping we could steer it back in this direction. Thanks

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,058
    amyw12 said:

    OK art is one thing, but what about to the original question of how much credit you can take in your render for using premade assets? Because this thread was not made for discussion about what constitutes as art or not and whether or not you are an artist due to your artistic value, because that is all subjective. Moreso interested in how much you can claim is your own artwork credit-wise, since you are using premade assets. Also originally wondering if you could call yourself an artist not because of artistic value but again, credit-wise as you are using premade assets.

    Good responses but I was hoping we could steer it back in this direction. Thanks

    I'm sticking with the answer I gave SnowSultan: the art is in how you arrange those assets. You could take the exact same assets and make a virtually infinite variety of renders out of them. Hell, you could give the same assets to two different Dazzers, and even with very specific instructions on how you wanted it to look, they would still look different because the creators would be applying their own artistic sensibilities.

    To the point of using pre-made assets, well, those are products. I'm not saying there isn't art in creating those assets, but they are being sold (or given) to you to use in your own artwork, not as pieces of art in and of themselves. If you want to credit the creators of the assets you use, by all means do so (I sure as hell do), but I don't think you're being at all dishonest if you don't.

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,471

    I think that is the point of the "Attribution".  There is even licenses made just for this purpose, for example the CC BY license:

    "This license lets others distribute, remix, adapt, bake, boil, fry, mash, cream, soupify, saladify, chipify, grill and stack all toppings upon a potato, even commercially, as long as they credit you for the original potato."

  • GalaxyGalaxy Posts: 562
    amyw12 said:

    OK art is one thing, but what about to the original question of how much credit you can take in your render for using premade assets? Because this thread was not made for discussion about what constitutes as art or not and whether or not you are an artist due to your artistic value, because that is all subjective. Moreso interested in how much you can claim is your own artwork credit-wise, since you are using premade assets. Also originally wondering if you could call yourself an artist not because of artistic value but again, credit-wise as you are using premade assets.

    Good responses but I was hoping we could steer it back in this direction. Thanks

    If a painter [(till now I learn only painters are real artist because they can draw)] paint with brushes and draw with pencils then, will he/she give credit to them who makes perfect brushes for him/her or those who makes pencils.

    (pun intended) 

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 7,051
    Asari said:
    McGyver said:
    Ivy said:
    SnowSultan said:

    interesting philosophy ?  What about music or musicians are they artist? are they still artist if they play someone else song instead of one they wrote?

     

    I was going to bow out of this discussion because we're all basically on the same side here, but if you want a reply, here goes - and it's a blunt one, but of course it's just my personal opinion. No, I do not call musicians "artists", they're musicians. Every person who is talented in a specific creative field doesn't need to also be referred to as an "artist". It's almost as if the name of what they choose to do apparently isn't good enough, so they have to tack 'artist' on to sound important. One should be proud of being called a musician, a chef, an animator, a dancer, or a singer. Those are all very worthy creative pursuits, and as I've said before, I consider myself an "assembler" because I DO NOT place myself among them or those who I consider to be artists.

    There's no right or wrong answer here, and that's why these threads go around in circles. We're all creative here, and we do not look down on each other for using pre-made content like others in the larger 3D community might. That's what's important.

    I like people who are blunt and to the point. we need more of them  :)  I like that you see the world differently...

    .... 

     

    Artist can apply to anyone , Artist means according to the merriam-webster dictionary

    Definition of artist

    1a : one who professes and practices an imaginative art

    b : a person skilled in one of the fine arts

    2 : a skilled performer especially : artiste

    3 : one who is adept at something con artist strikeout artist

    4a obsolete : one skilled or versed in learned arts

    b archaic : physician

    c archaic : artisan sense 1

     

    If you like blunt...

    There is only one definition of an Artist...

    Artist (art•ist /ärdezt/): noun. A highly trained individual who photographs potatoes.

     

    I'm going to keep beating this joke to death...

     

    My problem is I am probably a potato so can potatoes still photograph potatoes?

    Only with their consent... if humans or cats take pictures without a potato's consent, it's nature photography... another potato... that's like stalking... or peeping.

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 7,051
    amyw12 said:

    OK art is one thing, but what about to the original question of how much credit you can take in your render for using premade assets? Because this thread was not made for discussion about what constitutes as art or not and whether or not you are an artist due to your artistic value, because that is all subjective. Moreso interested in how much you can claim is your own artwork credit-wise, since you are using premade assets. Also originally wondering if you could call yourself an artist not because of artistic value but again, credit-wise as you are using premade assets.

    Good responses but I was hoping we could steer it back in this direction. Thanks

    Okay, I'll be serious for a minute... but only a minute and that's fifty eight seconds remaining, so I'll be fast...

    The stuff you use asset-wise is pretty much a commercial resource... if I make a model of a roadkill flavored TV dinner (I did), and offer it for use by the general public, whether free or pay (it's free), if I want recognition or credit, I have to stipulate that in the license... few people care about that and most don't bother... otherwise it's a product like a real life stool or unicycle for a chinchilla... if you photograph or paint it, it's a prop...

    Working in industrial design I've made tons of things I'd never get credit for... the company does, not the individual who designed it or the guy who made the prototype... 

    twenty seconds remaining...

    Companies can get nasty about people portraying their products in any media... I knew a guy back in the 90s who sculpted muscle cars and their owners... he got a cease and desist from Chrysler... I never found out how that went, but it's risky, sometimes the companies don't have a leg to stand on, but they'll try anyway, basically it's just a form of SLAPP, figuring the individual will comply because it to costly not to...

    But unless a license for the 3D assets stipulates credit or is for limited personal use (like your eyes only), it's meant to be used like a movie prop...

    but credit is alway nice, not just to the people who make content, but for other artists who might like the assets and want to buy them too...

    A good example is... oops... times up...

     

    Potato Photography is the only real art form on earth!

    Sorry... I'm dedicated to my craft... which is basically posting nonsensical rambling attempts a humor... 

     

  • eshaesha Posts: 3,240

    I'll put my favorite Wikipedia quotation here again:

    Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative, conceptual ideas, or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power.

    It's not about what you use, it's about how you use it. Do you render the assets in default pose and plain lighting? Then you're really just showing other people's work, there's no "imaginative, conceptual ideas, or technical skill" in that and nobody will appreciate your renders "for their beauty or emotional power". But if you morph and pose and tweak the assets, combine them in new ways, play with lighting and camera angles until you get the image you want, that does have artistic merit, it is a render only you, with your own artistic imagination, could make in precisely this way. Others may use the same assets, but their renders will look different because they use the assets in a different way.

    Imagine two photos of a beautiful woman, one is a passport photo and the other one is an elaborate portrait shot, with a special hairdo, great makeup, accessories, a special setting etc. One just shows what she looks like, the other one shows her personality and, if done well, even captures her feelings and creates an emotional response in those who see the photo. Both images show the same woman, the same "asset", both were done with the same technical equipment, but only one will be "appreciated for its beauty and emotional power".

    That said, it's always nice to give credit for the products you used. A photographer will also mention the model's name and perhaps also the makeup experts and hairdressers etc. who worked together to make the photo happen. It will still be the photographer's photo, though, in his/her personal style.

  • GalaxyGalaxy Posts: 562
    edited February 2020

    Yes it is still your art because you have the proper permission to use it (consider these are your collection of brushes). However there are times I try to give credit if possible.

    N.B. I can draw, I can sculpt 3d (probably not good enough to call an artist) but I found these are time consuming and inconvenient for speed work/final output.

    *This time I am approximately serious.

    Post edited by Galaxy on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,011

    I do think it's worth noting, when possible, whether you are highlighting your art as a modeling/texure artist or as a rendering/scene artist.

    Because it's not that one is more important than the other, but rather communicating what kind of work you are doing.

    Like, say, great photographs of cosplay; am I conveying my skills as a photographer, or as a tailor?

     

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,169
    edited February 2020

    I taught economics in a small liberal arts college.  Among extremely small faculties, non-artists have to have frequent professional interaction with arts professors on issues that actually affect the education of each other's students.  An artist may sit on a curriculum committee affecting economics students, or the reverse,

    So, one day after reading the news, I wondered aloud if an elephant can be trained (or coaxed) to grab a brush and spread paint on a canvas, is that art?  

    I don't know what art is, but I do know that an economist can be subjected to several hours of verbal abuse by artists for bringing up elephants, brushes, and canvas.

    See elephant art gallery here.

    https://elephantartgallery.com/

    cc01 elephant art.png
    946 x 872 - 651K
    Post edited by Diomede on
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