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Yeah, something to keep in mind here is that the officially stated poly counts for Daz figures don't mean a thing when it comes to what sort of computational load they put on external rendering engines like Iray. For the very simple reason that Iray/octane/etc only ever get to interact with the figures in their fully "compiled" state. Which in the case of G8F (a purportedly 17k figure) rendered under 100% default Daz Studio settings is as a 524k figure.
How do I know this? Because if you fire up the latest version of Daz Studio, load a blank scene, load a single "Genesis 8 Female Dev Load" from Smart Content, hit Render for Iray, and then jump to the log file and search for the latest occurrence of "Geometry import" you get this:
The story that Genesis 8 figures are low poly count is an innocent fiction. It may load initially into Daz Studio as a 17k payload. But by the time it actually makes its way to Iray for rendering it is a 524k beast. And once again - this is without changing any DS options (eg. subD) from their defaults.
My reading in-between the lines is that Daz developers pulled support for it in the latest release cycle because of difficulties getting native 3DL/Iray shaders to visually translate properly, given that Filament does not yet seem to have fully documented/working implementations of key visual effects like subsurface scattering/volumetrics.
this is realtime in UE4
I just captured it and added music and uploaded it
but it took forever to save once I added Lydia as my third person player so gave up on adding more NPC's to occupy seats and stuff
would have had to wait for it to build lighting too
so even a realtime renderer would need time to load and optimise stuffs
How about a micropolygon engine? UE5's coming out with it. Youd have to give up ray tracing but at least you get basically infinite polygons for your models.
edit: they used cone tracing, which is like low res ray tracing
They're doing all these incredible things, but still have to cover up the character's noodley looking joints? Apparently DQ skinnig can be made to work in UE4, but I don't think there's a generic procedure to get Genesis JCMs working in it. So I'll have to pass... my OCD just won't accept it.
While it sounds like folks are getting testy, this discussion (and it *is* a civil discussion, mods - let it go on), is *very* interesting and rich with wisdom and insight. It gets quite easy (and lazy) to project my context on others and expect that my experiences would somehow be universal, so seeing this world I know through these various lenses is just great. I also like the assumptions and push-back dynamic. The forum mods may not like it much, but in real life, it's quite productive.
Comparing the various goals and the trade-offs found in the DAZ eco-system (now and in the future) is fascinating, and lends some great perspectives to places I've been, and places I'd like to go.
cheers to all,
--ms
Unreal Engine 5 looks very photorealistic.
It would be a dream to have a real-time much faster engine, even if we had to compromise a bit about photorealism for the moment (I guess it would improve with time?).
It wouldn't be half bad if Daz could use our systems at 360 degrees (like Blender does), instead of just focusing on Nvidia GPUs!
But I'm completely ignorant, so I just trust what they're doing xD
Having a up-to-date render engine fast enough to make animation in Daz Studio feasible on timescales shorter than the geological would be nice.
Having animation tools to match would be a pre-requisite, otherwise it just shifts the pain elsewhere on the pipeline.
I'm attaching the comments that, I guess, have started this conversation.
But why are you thinking about Filament, or a new rendering engine?
Maybe they're just making Iray another 5% faster?
It would be huge to change render engine. Basically all materials would become instantly obsolete. Unless I'm missing something?
apparently Reallusion got an Epic megagrant
largely because of their bridge from iClone to Unreal Engine
Epic seem to be tossing these megagrants out like candy maybe DAZ needs to join the other bridesmaids at the bouquet toss
Blender has been adding amazing features at a stunning pace Including a new fluid/smoke Solver( mantaflow) and we are getting an all new hair system this summer and needed improvements to EEVEE such as object based motion blur.
Epic has clearly become the dominant player in the arena of realtime rendering and appears to be "annointing" those other softwares that they see as embracing realtime animation& rendering technology.
I would guess because of this in the Public Beta change log.
The response by DAZ was to 2 comments wherein the central concept was Real-Time Rendering.
If you've ever worked in or modded game production, and made changes to animations, physics, textures and so on, and then watched your character move around in Real-time with your changes...well the idea of IRAY even improving 100% or 200% isn't enough.
For many users, until we see 30fps min with physics, for probably many users, there will always the push and dream for next big step.
IF Daz was referring to Filament...then am sadly much less excited about this hint.
Was hoping for an official bridge to an existing render solution porting all the morph types, or something like that.
A synergy between DAZ & Company X.
DAZ does real quality stuff, but quality takes time with bugs & evolutions that just naturally happen along the way.
So implementing something that is reportedly designed in great-part for ligher-weight mobile Android systems, doesn't really make me feel warm & fuzzy about chances of Higher-Quality rendering with Filament...for many years to come anyway.
Possibly it's scalable for more advanced systems? Lack of any amount of showcase vids indicates earlier-stage development. Unless I missed something?
Can see why DAZ would consider the Filament route.
Until a game engine advances a market-place of products as high a quality as DAZ, feel we users are stuck with sticking with this or that environment. Or making the enormous amount of time to migrate assets.
Am speaking from the the POV of all the morphs and PBR-Iray Mats/Shaders in DAZ.
At this rate I'm going to have buy two 3000Gen Titans in Q1-Q2 2021.
Cos can't wait that long.
But would
for Daz to surprise me!
What I would love is a bridge between DAZ and UE 4/5 that converts all the beautiful Iray materials automagically into Unreal.
Also, "Groom" there real-time hair looks incredible compared to our curve-based hair even in real time.
https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/tech-blog/an-early-look-at-next-generation-real-time-hair-and-fur
I've been trying. http://davidvodhanel.com/daz-to-unreal-close-ups/
Still needs improvement. The problem is the Iray materials have a lot of complexity to them (and take a long time to render), so in Unreal we need to take shortcuts.If you have materials in Unreal that you like, I've got a way to help map the textures and parameters to them from Daz Studio http://davidvodhanel.com/working-with-materials-in-daz-to-unreal/
Thanks for your links.
I'm sad that UE produces near-photoreal results, but even with DAZ's great textures I've never seen a DAZ character look photoreal in UE.
don't think she was invited to the wedding for some reason. 8^/
--ms
Oh wow!
So...are we talking about this next Daz 4.13 already?
I don't understand what that means! I guess the property translation of Iray materials means we don't need to rebuild the whole library?
I wouldn't mind being able to experiment with real-time animations. Nowadays it's something I don't even consider because it would take way too long with my hardware.
But even having something that would render with a high-quality GPU a picture we now need 1 hour for in 1 minute would be fabulous!
That is real-time?! Oh wow!!!!
That hair looks incredible, much much better than the ones we have in hours-long renders!
Wow, and that was UE4!
Honestly, those characters look even better than Iray.
I don't understand the worries about quality-loss.
I would be very happy to have that kind of quality with a real-time engine in Daz. Oh wow, I could make a whole story in one day, instead of weeks/months!!!
Any news about this topic?
I've found this page: https://github.com/daz3d/filament?files=1
It talks about Android and iOS too.
But will it be just a preview engine, or will we be able to render with it?
Ohhh, interesting! I wonder if that really is their official Github account? Looks like they also created projects (less than 24 hours ago) for a bunch of "bridges" for Unity, Unreal, Blender, etc.
Wow what an awesome find @LenioTG , very interesting work. Perhaps we will see more integration than we would have imagined before.
this is interesting indeed
would rather a Carrara bridge but will take what I can get
I have a question for you all. When I looking for more information on Filament. I found this page off github and when you scroll down this page on this link to view the sample images of https://awesomeopensource.com/project/google/filament
I have to ask you all.. Do you think some of those scenes were using daz models in some of the images posted there? I am pretty sure the first one is stonemasons streets of old London . I think all the renders looks great if they look like that real time for animation development that is even better I would think. I look forward to seeing Filament added to daz as a render engine I think it would be positive for people who like to animate in daz.
edited for spelling
That la petit coin sign looks familliar for some reason
The reason it's not used for Iray materials is because in order to see Iray materials, they must be rendered, which takes some time. Iray shaders cannot behave like those in the viewport unless rendered first. The Iray preview should show you what that's like. It's slow if you don't have a computer that's incredibly fast and unfortunately that's the best that can be done.
yes that is what caught my eye too I've been trying to place it . I thought it might have been one of Faveral La Village sets or Provence but then looking closer it reminds me of Streets of old london. with some stuff kit bashed into it. It looks great to me
Definitely not the streets of London. Not even close. I just did an Iray conversion of that set and the buildings, sidewalks, lamps and roads are all very different. Here is a test render of the streets of London in Iray. Pardon the noise, it's just a quick test.
Ciao
TD
I think the page is identical to the Google github page and, indeed, at the top of the Daz/Filament page it says "forked from google/filament". But it is interesting that Daz have forked the code because that suggests to me that they are working on an implementation. Can't come fast enough for me - a whole new phase of DAZ Studio would open up with real-time rendering. I hope they refine the animation timeline too.
Just one word of caution though - I notice there are no images of people. Human skin shaders are a must.
Thanks for the render. I have the set myself . I was just tryingt ot match up where i seen the demo pic before
yes I think an addition of some kind of Real time rendering would be awesome certainly speed up animation Pre-rendering set ups. Ive always like the looks of Blender Cycles renders. But for me Blender UI is just to hard to grasp. . I like the Iray real time preview when building sets or setting up lighting & using it for still renders in Daz. but its just not efficient enough in speed to be worth anything for animation use especially in in creating game cycle animation . Real time rendering is kind of a must have. . I agree with you I look forward to seeing filiment implemented. Weather or not its going to be useful will depend on how is is set up f to use.
I'll keep a open mind and hope for the best I reckon.