Announcing The Platinum Club Plus [Beta] Program
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There isn't an "if you buy this you get this cheaper gimmick" - there's a coupon with a minimum balance, hardly exotic (I get lots of those from the supermarket - save so much off your next order over so much) and there are discounts on certain PAs, with the group of PAs regularly changing.
Richard- the "regularly changing" part that I'd like a bit of clarification on. How long are these artists featured? A day, two days? A week?
I think Jack said they were still looking at that but that if something like this system goes gold (or gamma or whatever) it would probably be a weekly turnover, or thereabouts.
I think Jack said they were still looking at that but that if something like this system goes gold (or gamma or whatever) it would probably be a weekly turnover, or thereabouts.
According to the first page of the Platinum Club items (Which also shows the currently participating PA's) the selection of PA's "Updates Weekly"
I'm sure your legal team has already looked into this, but on the off-chance they haven't:
PC Plus - free groceries, pretty much anywhere in Canada. It's been around for years.
(This is why I usually spell out "Platinum Club", by the way.)
There seems to be this cavalier attitude pervading this beta. I've read many posts where the member bought a cartload of items at the $1.99 price, made sure to use their regular June PC coupon and then opted in with the thought of "...it's only for six weeks, I can wait and buy anything else I want after that"..."
Or "...I already used my June coupon, I'll opt in, get two more coupons, use them and wait to buy anything I want from the PC until the beta is over and then I'll buy what I want because the prices will go back to $1.99..."
Am I wrong?
How is either of the above supposed to help DAZ make a decision?
Would member be so cavalier about the whole thing if DAZ decided that once you are in, you are in for good?
What I do see posted is those who have opted in viewing it as a short term move that seems to benefit them. Will they be as happy and carefree if there was no end? No, wait six weeks and it all goes back to the way it was.
order of 7 items purchased before platinum plus.... $13.39
same items available after platinum plus...................$19.61
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that would certainly make a long term difference...
I may buy stuff now (under regular plat club) just to have on hand...
in the future would only buy those I really needed...
under two bucks... who thinks...
closer to five ... whoops, let's think about this.
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it's hard to say how much I have because some items have multiple downloaders etc
but my Install manager lists 3841 items....
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after I did the switch, I noticed at least one item I missed when I was buying the viking stuff...
didn't notice that nord and northmen are not the same... granted that one was only a 31 cent goof...
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and when is there going to be something to move genesis stuff to genesis 2?
the cats are a mix of the teens, sadie/sam, cat girl genesis and a couple other sets of genesis morphs...
I can see where that comes off that way, but I think it depends on how much of the PC each of those people already have. I did state what you posted, but I ALSO posted in an earlier post that I would just wait until the PC items were no longer new, then use my DO code on them for that second, new code. I think getting $12 of codes offsets the PC item increase. Getting an $18 minimum isn't hard because the prices are raised on the PC items, and the $6 just whacks them back down again. Maybe not to what they were, but 1.99 always seemed ridiculous to me for a business plan.
So I would continue buying and yes, be happy. I just picked up some texture items by Diane for $1.11 (EDIT: MAKE THAT $0.55!!!) as she is in the summer promo, the PC+, and the V4 sale. Other people who just use this short term then bail, I have to agree with you that it would skew the results. But again, hopefully DAZ is looking at buying history. They'll probably continue to track people after the + ends.
I think you made a good point though. Going to be tricky.
They may be increases from what we have now but it's not especially beneficial to everyone. You will need a constant influx of new customers who do not yet have a base of content.,
I'm not sure that's so -- it's the people who have a large base of content who tend to say "I already have all the DO's I want, what I need is savings on PA items."
I've missed out on being able to use a lot of the monthly coupons for exactly that reason. All those big sales last year let me finally buy pretty much every old DO I might concievably want to buy, all I have left is anything new coming into the store that catches my fancy. And I don't use Genesis 2, so that pares down the list even more. I haven't decided yet whether to jump, but the new coupons setup does make it sound good.
It might really be worth thinking about just making two versions. How about making one that gives you the current, entire PC-back catalogue at, say $1 per item, plus 30% on new DAZ originals, plus perhaps the freebies. No new content will be added to this "base PC". For thos who want new content, the PC+ could be either an "add on" or a seperate entity, and would work on the new pricing model. That way, people who want the back catalogue at the "old" prices can still get it, while those who already have all that stuff can use the new model of the PC+.
Best of both worlds, so to speak.
They may be increases from what we have now but it's not especially beneficial to everyone. You will need a constant influx of new customers who do not yet have a base of content.,
As for the $1.99 price changing, I only object to the variable nature of it. A minimum of three PC items a week at $2.99 and flat $5 and/or $7.50 for another item or two would suit me fine. The 2.99 items could go up to $4.00 after sixty days. No initial discount. Something like that. The point being that there would be some fixed pricing on a minimum number of PC items instead of ALL of them having funny unanticipated prices.
The ironic thing is that the end effect of someone switching to the PC+ over the PC is that the odds of their buying the formerly $1.99 product in their wishlist will drop dramatically. There will be a short rush at the beginning as people preparing to switch over grab the handful of items that they really want, and then the rest will either never be bought or perhaps eventually purchased via coupons... because how many people are going to spend $3-5 buying a product that they didn't have sufficient motivation to purchase when it was $1.99?
Honestly, though, I'm having a little trouble seeing how DAZ thinks this is going to make the PC more profitable. I can see what they're THINKING, as the current PC coupons are essentially a return on a loan that the members give to DAZ. If DAZ takes $70 from me and gives me back 12 $6.00 coupons, they've actually given me back $72.00 in buying power in return for a lock on that money over the course of the year, PLUS they give me an extra 30% (or more) stacking discount off all the DO product that I buy. Of course, given that the DO product is all bought and paid for by DAZ, any money that's brought in on it all goes straight back to DAZ so it's a closed system.
Whereas, with PC+ they'd be taking $70 at the beginning of an annual membership and then giving back $144 in buying power for the use of the money for a year and the promise of an additional $144 in spending. Which sounds just peachy keen until you take into account the fact that a lot of customers would have spent that $18 a month anyway, and you've now extended the 30% stacking discount off on a large selection of the PA product. Which means that the customer can now buy even more PA product for the same $$$ that they would have spent before. Moreover, since the money from the PA sale profits is divided between DAZ and the PAs, it means that a smaller portion of the final sale will come back to DAZ. Granted, DAZ doesn't have the cost of flat buy outs on the PA product to deal with anymore, but assuming that people keep spending the exact same amount, they're going to end up buying through the PA products that they want a lot more quickly and for less "real" money. And since the 30% discount is effectively equal to the current 2 week intro pricing discount, it greatly reduces the effectiveness of the intro price as a sales incentive. After all, where's the rush to buy something at 30% off when it's still going to be 30% or more off in the immediate future?
So, essentially, with PC+ DAZ is taking in the same amount of real cash up front and gambling that they'll get enough in "fill out the coupon" sales (FOTC for short?) to bring in more cash after they've paid off the PAs. And I can see that it might be a little better than break even if it wasn't for the fact that DAZ just can't stop running discounts on everything, including the price of the PC itself and I can't imagine that they'll be any less restrained with the PC+
So, if I buy a PC+ annual membership for, say, $50, the math starts to go wonky. Because now DAZ is taking my $50 and giving me back $144 in spending back in exchange for the promise of an additional $144 in sales. And if I'm getting all eligible PA product on the second coupons, I'm getting product that would have been sold for over $200. So, in that scenario I'm effectively getting $22 worth of "free" DO's on the DO only coupons and $56 worth of "extra" product for my $144 on the second PA coupons. (And if decide to pay that $144 using Gift Cards that I've bought for $20% off, I'm paying even less in "real" money.)
And people have bought annual PC memberships for a lot less than $50.
I don't know... it just seems to me like there would have to be an explosive growth in sales to offset all the differences, though without knowing the exact division of sales between DAZ and PAs it's hard to guess who'd be getting the dirtier part of the stick. And no matter how I look at it, sales of the product in the PC library itself would almost certainly be reduced rather than expanded.
Ok, dumb question time. Where is the "Convert Account" button, and/or the "Platinum Club portal"? If I click the "Platinum club" tab in my account, there's nothing there but a brief message
"Platinum Club
Want to find out more about Platinum Club? Find out more"
with the link to http://www.daz3d.com/platinum-club where a non-member can join.
Ok, dumb question time. Where is the "Convert Account" button, and/or the "Platinum Club portal"? If I click the "Platinum club" tab in my account, there's nothing there but a brief message
"Platinum Club
Want to find out more about Platinum Club? Find out more"
with the link to http://www.daz3d.com/platinum-club where a non-member can join.
Dumb question back: You're sure you are a PC-member already?
Yes.
It would be right below your membership information. But that message seems to say that you are currently not a member of PC?
Sean, that sounds wonky then. It was in the Platinum Club tab, if I recall. I just joined yesterday for the PC+ and I think that's where I found the link. You'll then get a popup telling you to be sure, that you can't cancel and revert back until the trial ends.
Ok, thanks. I'm looking into it now.
Sorry I should have clarified, that is what I get for writing a post while cooking supper :down:. Most of the sales have been if you buy two or more you get a bigger discount. And actually they spoke earlier in the thread about getting a bigger discount if the PA who is in the 30% is also a featured in another sale for the possible stacking of discounts. So yeah that is a lets see how cheap I can get this if I add this or that. Just not my cup of tea.
However I will state again where this does not work well for me it will likely work for others. I don't see the increase in price as a bad idea just wish it were more of a standard that way I knew. And maybe someone way smarter than me can figure out the math :cheese:
The ironic thing is that the end effect of someone switching to the PC+ over the PC is that the odds of their buying the formerly $1.99 product in their wishlist will drop dramatically. There will be a short rush at the beginning as people preparing to switch over grab the handful of items that they really want, and then the rest will either never be bought or perhaps eventually purchased via coupons... because how many people are going to spend $3-5 buying a product that they didn't have sufficient motivation to purchase when it was $1.99?
Honestly, though, I'm having a little trouble seeing how DAZ thinks this is going to make the PC more profitable. I can see what they're THINKING, as the current PC coupons are essentially a return on a loan that the members give to DAZ. If DAZ takes $70 from me and gives me back 12 $6.99 coupons, they've actually given me back $72.00 in buying power in return for a lock on that money over the course of the year, PLUS they give me an extra 30% (or more) stacking discount off all the DO product that I buy. Of course, given that the DO product is all bought and paid for by DAZ, any money that's brought in on it all goes straight back to DAZ so it's a closed system.
Whereas, with PC+ they'd be taking $70 at the beginning of an annual membership and then giving back $144 in buying power for the use of the money for a year and the promise of an additional $144 in spending. Which sounds just peachy keen until you take into account the fact that a lot of customers would have spent that $18 a month anyway, and you've now extended the 30% stacking discount off on a large selection of the PA product. Which means that the customer can now buy even more PA product for the same $$$ that they would have spent before. Moreover, since the money from the PA sale profits is divided between DAZ and the PAs, it means that a smaller portion of the final sale will come back to DAZ. Granted, DAZ doesn't have the cost of flat buy outs on the PA product to deal with anymore, but assuming that people keep spending the exact same amount, they're going to end up buying through the PA products that they want a lot more quickly and for less "real" money. And since the 30% discount is effectively equal to the current 2 week intro pricing discount, it greatly reduces the effectiveness of the intro price as a sales incentive. After all, where's the rush to buy something at 30% off when it's still going to be 30% or more off in the immediate future?
So, essentially, with PC+ DAZ is taking in the same amount of real cash up front and gambling that they'll get enough in "fill out the coupon" sales (FOTC for short?) to bring in more cash after they've paid off the PAs. And I can see that it might be a little better than break even if it wasn't for the fact that DAZ just can't stop running discounts on everything, including the price of the PC itself and I can't imagine that they'll be any less restrained with the PC+
So, if I buy a PC+ annual membership for, say, $50, the math starts to go wonky. Because now DAZ is taking my $50 and giving me back $144 in spending back in exchange for the promise of an additional $144 in sales. And if I'm getting all eligible PA product on the second coupons, I'm getting product that would have been sold for over $200. So, in that scenario I'm effectively getting $22 worth of "free" DO's on the DO only coupons and $56 worth of "extra" product for my $144 on the second PA coupons. (And if decide to pay that $144 using Gift Cards that I've bought for $20% off, I'm paying even less in "real" money.)
And people have bought annual PC memberships for a lot less than $50.
I don't know... it just seems to me like there would have to be an explosive growth in sales to offset all the differences, though without knowing the exact division of sales between DAZ and PAs it's hard to guess who'd be getting the dirtier part of the stick. And no matter how I look at it, sales of the product in the PC library itself would almost certainly be reduced rather than expanded.
I like your math. That's the first time this PC+ made sense for me on the customer side. When I signed up for the PC Membership the last few times, my thoughts were: I have nothing to lose. $70 for $72 worth of coupons. I could find $6 worth of DO each month, even if they weren't exactly what I wanted. I don't think I've ever failed to spend my $6 DO coupon.
With the new system, again, I don't see myself forfeiting a coupon because there's absolutely NOTHING to purchase. And as I admitted in early post, I don't like paying more for PC items, but I can see the need to keep up with inflation. And though I try not to (kind of), I tend to spend well over $18/mo... often on PA items... so again, the PA coupon will go to use.
Now that I have my blinders off, I am swaying toward the PC+. $144 is more valuable than $72, even if I get less bang for my buck with the DO coupon.
However, I'm with a lot of others... I prefer a flat fee for PC items rather than a percentage. If DAZ says the new price for PC items are $3.99, then fine... I can deal with that. In fact, $3.99 still borders on impulse buy for me. Only thing, I'd have a lot fewer impulse buys. Right now, I can comfortably put 5-6 $1.99 items in my cart and not thing twice about it on any given day... every day for that matter (but don't tell my husband). A $3.99 item... I might just stick one in my cart. Even though I'm spending less than 5-6 $1.99 items, I'm more aware of a $3.99 item.
It's the same principle when it comes to those $0.99 sales. It's like I become brain damaged or something. My thoughts go from it's okay to spend $10-15 today to I can get 101 items for under $100.
May we have a $0.99 sale tomorrow, please? No... I can't afford a $0.99 sale right now.
Yes.
You're listed as a PA. From what I've read some time back, PA's have access to PC stuff, but aren't actually PC members. Have you actually paid for a PC membership at all? If not, you kind of reap the benefits without actually being a member.
You're listed as a PA. From what I've read some time back, PA's have access to PC stuff, but aren't actually PC members. Have you actually paid for a PC membership at all? If not, you kind of reap the benefits without actually being a member.
It's resolved now, thanks. The signup process is slightly different for PAs, so I had a checkbox elsewhere instead of the convert button described here.
Ah ok. Glad you got it. :)
Just do it! If I find it works for me then I'll stay if it doesn't then I'll go! We all get pay raises from time to time and its a fact of life that everyone needs more and gets more or moves along to something else!!
The amount of my social security check changes once a year. The cost of my medicare rises to take all but a few cents of any SSI increase. Several of us are on fixed incomes as a result of age or disability.
A lot of truth and great points here. I do think that creative art digital 3d assets do have an extra property that allows its value to endure more like an original music track. I say this because there are several tiers to leverage the investment. The level of and scope exclusivity, and the range of use is license. Not only the branding/image of the product, its that the tangible geometry can be reapplied. Like a rapper sampling a motown song segment to make a greater work. 3D figures in particular have a very long liufe as generations and types of hardware emerge offering ways to reuse and license. The sales can be perpetuate beyond original objective and be then sold to various platforms and sub-industries. Ultimately royalties could be collected.
Since the development of smart phones and tablets the app business has caused software prices to plummet. Customers expect to get media much cheaper than ever before. The same goes for 3D content. The trend in software prices is downwards not upwards so if DAZ wants to buck this trend and put up prices for old and new content then good luck with that. There's no way after buying into Genesis and Gen 2 that I would even consider buying M4/V4 stuff unless it was cheap as chips. It should all be $1 at the most. Some of these products have been on the market for years so if they haven't recouped their costs by now then they weren't viable anyway. If a company releases software nobody wants and it fails to sell then it's withdrawn pretty quickly. I don't see why those market principles shouldn't apply to DAZ and PA's whose products don't sell enough to make them profitable.
No one nowadays expects to pay original prices for old games and films unless they're collectors items and the same applies to 3D content. We're not here to subsidise developers whose products don't sell or are out of date. I'm pretty sure this principle applies to all DAZ staff and PA's too when they go shopping. I doubt that when they buy a six month old film that's been reduced in price they insist on paying the original price as some kind of altruistic gesture to sustain the creative community. That's why I don't believe or appreciate pleas to consider how DAZ will put food on the table - it's irrelevant and disingenuous especially when this argument only works one way. Make good products at a competitive price and we'll buy them.
I think there's a big difference between the behavior of the prices of non-PC items, which (like other software) have dropped tremendously over time, and those of PC items, which have been artificially suppressed from the beginning to act as loss leaders. PC prices are as divorced from any real measure of the value of the work required to develop them (or their value to the customer, for that matter) as the price of razors (which were virtually given away under the "Gillette Model", with the real income being the disposable blades) or the price of printers (which are frequently sold for barely more than the price of a set of ink cartridges).
Or, for that matter, with the price of DAZ Studio Pro, which is given away for free to entice customers to buy content. Does that mean that developing DS costs nothing, or that its capabilities are worth less than a single $1.99 PC item?
The point of the PC program is not to sell so many $1.99 items that it recoups their cost (I have no idea how many of them do, but I'd think it a safe bet to wager that many don't). Nor is it to make money on dues (which I seriously doubt are sufficient to cover overhead costs). It's to get people to come to the store and buy a lot. Some PC members, when money is tight, may do nothing but collect freebies, use the coupons to get DO's for nothing or virtually nothing, and buy the occasional $1.99 item. But when they do have some spending money, they probably spend quite a bit.
Nor is it some sudden, new thing that the $1.99 price point is untenable. It's been discussed for at least five years that I know of. Instead of thinking of $1.99 as some "true" price, think of it as a heavily-subsidized loss leader, which DAZ 3D has no doubt been pouring money into for far longer than many companies would.
None of this means we should be happy to pay more for PC items -- no one wants to pay more. But to talk as if $1.99 was a fair price and if anything it should be dropping is, IMHO, not an accurate analysis of the situation.
I see very few people saying $1.99 is a fair price what most people are saying is that they realise that prices need to be raised but what they want is consistent prices.
If you are referring to Superdog's post above yours I think you will find that he is talking about old products. Personally I've seen a rise in non PC products rather than a reduction in the last few years which is to be expected considering the rise in the cost of living, and remember Daz tried selling DS and I remember how that panned out.
If the PC is designed to get people to the store and no other reason then why change anything at all to be honest I don't think this convoluted complicated plan will entice people for long it may well have the effect of driving them away to other stores that keep things straightforward and simple.
I have been a PC member for less than 2 years (I think,) and I have spent a lot of money with DAZ in the last 2 years. While I don't have an infinite income, I am far from living on a limited income. My perspective may be very different from those on limited incomes.
From my perspective the main benefit of the PC club is in the the 30% stacking discount on DAZ originals. The PC club items at $1.99 are a bonus. I buy most of the new PC club items when they come out if they look like anything I might use. Why? Well they might flip into the value category and become $2.99 instead of $1.99. The 4 or 5 PC club items each week are a small part of what I buy.
The 30% discount on the back catalog of DAZ originals is nice, but I seldom use it. I buy a lot of new release DAZ originals at 51%, and that is what I view as the main value of the PC program. I don't buy every new DAZ original. I passed on Gizelle 6 and the Girl 6 because I just wasn't interested in those characters. I was going to pass on Aiko 6 too, but with the Spring into Summer discount the pro bundle was only $30, so I bought her pro bundle.
I have bought a lot of old PC club items, but not recently. I have also bought a lot of fast grab items. Lately I've bought a lot of items from the 80% off V4/M4 sale. I will probably buy a lot of old PC club items now while I can still get them at $1.99.
PC+ might be interesting. I notice the FAQ says "The 30% discount may or may not stack with intro pricing on new items, this is left up to the PA’s discretion." To me this makes a big difference. To be frank, a 30% discount on a group of PA's back catalogs is just not that interesting to me. I already have most of the things I really want from most PAs back catalogs (mostly bought at sales where I got more than 30% off) and 30% off is not enough to tempt me into buying something I only might someday find a use for. I know I buy some new DAZ originals at 51% off that I would not buy at 30%. I'm sure I would buy some new PA items at 51% off that I do not buy at 30% off. Unless the PC+ 30% PA discount applies to new releases (and DAZ doesn't rotate PAs out of the discount every time they have a new release), I don't see the 30% discount on PA items as much of a benefit.
I understand that the PA program has to make money, although like most companies I have worked for, I'm sure DAZ has a hard time figuring out how much revenue they really get from the PC program. I'm ok with a % discount rather than a flat price for PC items. Most new PC items are 88-80% off now when released. If that needs to go to 79% for PC new release and 70% for older PC items, well ok. I probably will be a little more selective in what I buy.