Computer freezes on simple scene with Tara, outfit and hair!

Wonderland

I’ve now tried to render this simple scene twice and each time my computer completely freezes and renders nothing and I have to do a hard restart on the computer. I have a 1080ti, 16 GB RAM. What is going on? No special lights or shaders, just a HDRI... It’s fine to see in iRay preview mode, but refuses to render! 

outrider42

I haven't got her yet, but from what I have read the subdivision is really high on her and her outfit. That combined with a dforce hair might be too much for Daz/Iray to handle. Have you looked at the subd settings? If they are really high you could try turning them down and that might fix this.

vagans

1.1Gb geometry on one character with an outfit and hair? That's just crazy. Something is really wrong there.

zombietaggerung

vagans said:

1.1Gb geometry on one character with an outfit and hair? That's just crazy. Something is really wrong there.

Not really. Dforce hair is EXTREMELY geometry heavy.

The Blurst of Times

Yeah, the SubD is probably an issue. I think the Normals are also pretty big PNGs.

Between those two, that's what caused trouble for me.

AprilYSH

zombietaggerung said:

vagans said:

1.1Gb geometry on one character with an outfit and hair? That's just crazy. Something is really wrong there.

Not really. Dforce hair is EXTREMELY geometry heavy.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/aprilysh3d/aprilysh-dforce-hair-vertex-count/3548968055136067/ hope that helps :)

zombietaggerung

AprilYSH said:

zombietaggerung said:

vagans said:

1.1Gb geometry on one character with an outfit and hair? That's just crazy. Something is really wrong there.

Not really. Dforce hair is EXTREMELY geometry heavy.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/aprilysh3d/aprilysh-dforce-hair-vertex-count/3548968055136067/ hope that helps :)

Doesn't really matter to me, i don't buy it because I know my computer can't handle it. But this might be helpful for @Wonderland.

Sevrin

Daz alone eats up around 21 Gb of memory when rending Tara with her hair and outfit, and around 7 Gb of Vram.  Around half of that is the hair.

Wonderland

I moved on to another scene, but I’ll try again changing the subd. This wasn’t even the Tara outfit but the Guard something and with the opacity off on several sections! I wonder what happens if I have to return a few items from the bundle? And if my 1080ti can no longer render current releases, this is really bad! 

Sevrin

Wonderland said:

I moved on to another scene, but I’ll try again changing the subd. This wasn’t even the Tara outfit but the Guard something and with the opacity off on several sections! I wonder what happens if I have to return a few items from the bundle? And if my 1080ti can no longer render current releases, this is really bad! 

I have a feeling your computer would be able to handle stuff like this better if you bumped your RAM up to 32 Gb.  If you feel you need to return something, return the hair.  The outfit is heavy, but not nearly as heavy as the hair.

outrider42

You can always check how much RAM you are using, as well as VRAM during a render. I use MSI Afterburner, but you can use whatever you want.

I had 16GB RAM for a while and upgraded to 32 later. I do think it has helped stability with my Daz because I don't crash as often. But it is possible that software updates have helped, too, so I cannot say for certain. Having more RAM never hurts, though. I have created scenes in Daz that used around 27GB of RAM and 9.5GB on my 1080tis. So I have pushed beyond 16.

Daventaki

Cutting the line tesselation on the hair down to 2 will help a bunch also.

PerttiA

outrider42 said:

You can always check how much RAM you are using, as well as VRAM during a render. I use MSI Afterburner, but you can use whatever you want.

I had 16GB RAM for a while and upgraded to 32 later. I do think it has helped stability with my Daz because I don't crash as often. But it is possible that software updates have helped, too, so I cannot say for certain. Having more RAM never hurts, though. I have created scenes in Daz that used around 27GB of RAM and 9.5GB on my 1080tis. So I have pushed beyond 16.

I would consider 32GB as minimum

Wonderland

I’m rendering another scene now but I’ll try all of your suggestions later, thanks! 

outrider42

PerttiA said:

outrider42 said:

You can always check how much RAM you are using, as well as VRAM during a render. I use MSI Afterburner, but you can use whatever you want.

I had 16GB RAM for a while and upgraded to 32 later. I do think it has helped stability with my Daz because I don't crash as often. But it is possible that software updates have helped, too, so I cannot say for certain. Having more RAM never hurts, though. I have created scenes in Daz that used around 27GB of RAM and 9.5GB on my 1080tis. So I have pushed beyond 16.

I would consider 32GB as minimum

It really depends on the user though. I have 1080tis which have 11GB that allow me to push RAM up, and I have built scenes that push 32. But other people perhaps not. If all you render are pics of one or two people in a basic scene...or maybe even just HDRI, then 16GB will easily do for that type of user. Plus if the renders are smaller resolutions, that is a factor, too. If somebody has a 6GB GPU, then I believe 16GB RAM is enough, because it would be tough to build a scene that fits such a GPU that exceeds 16GB of RAM.

Wonderland

I tried again with a different hair, turned the subd down to 1 and also realized the HDRI I was using had a default Quality render setting that I lowered. The geometry was still high, like 850 mb (I think that’s high? I never really paid attention until now! ) But it rendered OK. I’ll have to try the hair on a different character. 

nicstt

vagans said:

1.1Gb geometry on one character with an outfit and hair? That's just crazy. Something is really wrong there.

Yeh, old computers cry a lot.

New technology and improved systems tend to increase the system requirements.

... Iray was one such introduction.

nicstt

PerttiA said:

outrider42 said:

You can always check how much RAM you are using, as well as VRAM during a render. I use MSI Afterburner, but you can use whatever you want.

I had 16GB RAM for a while and upgraded to 32 later. I do think it has helped stability with my Daz because I don't crash as often. But it is possible that software updates have helped, too, so I cannot say for certain. Having more RAM never hurts, though. I have created scenes in Daz that used around 27GB of RAM and 9.5GB on my 1080tis. So I have pushed beyond 16.

I would consider 32GB as minimum

I would agree; I would also state the minimum reccommended for a Nvidia card is 11GB.

... Of course one can manage with less, but am talking about reccommended.

... Either that or use an alternative renderer.

maikdecker

nicstt said:

PerttiA said:

outrider42 said:

You can always check how much RAM you are using, as well as VRAM during a render. I use MSI Afterburner, but you can use whatever you want.

I had 16GB RAM for a while and upgraded to 32 later. I do think it has helped stability with my Daz because I don't crash as often. But it is possible that software updates have helped, too, so I cannot say for certain. Having more RAM never hurts, though. I have created scenes in Daz that used around 27GB of RAM and 9.5GB on my 1080tis. So I have pushed beyond 16.

I would consider 32GB as minimum

I would agree; I would also state the minimum reccommended for a Nvidia card is 11GB.

... Of course one can manage with less, but am talking about reccommended.

... Either that or use an alternative renderer.

I got an 8 gig graphic card and 16 gig normal memory and when a scene gets too big for it and DAZ tries to use CPU instead it's usually just enough to reduce texture sizes a bit...

Or in the worst case, I split up the scene into several parts and render them one after the other.

No need to pay through one's nose for a high end graphic card if one only does renders as a hobby.

Unless one wants to render in higher resolutions texture sizes and detail levels can be reduced quite a bit without making the result look too bad.

PerttiA

outrider42 said:

PerttiA said:

outrider42 said:

You can always check how much RAM you are using, as well as VRAM during a render. I use MSI Afterburner, but you can use whatever you want.

I had 16GB RAM for a while and upgraded to 32 later. I do think it has helped stability with my Daz because I don't crash as often. But it is possible that software updates have helped, too, so I cannot say for certain. Having more RAM never hurts, though. I have created scenes in Daz that used around 27GB of RAM and 9.5GB on my 1080tis. So I have pushed beyond 16.

I would consider 32GB as minimum

It really depends on the user though. I have 1080tis which have 11GB that allow me to push RAM up, and I have built scenes that push 32. But other people perhaps not. If all you render are pics of one or two people in a basic scene...or maybe even just HDRI, then 16GB will easily do for that type of user. Plus if the renders are smaller resolutions, that is a factor, too. If somebody has a 6GB GPU, then I believe 16GB RAM is enough, because it would be tough to build a scene that fits such a GPU that exceeds 16GB of RAM.

I have been checking the memory usage with GPU-Z, and it seems like the RAM Usage of the scene doubles during rendering -> One scene took 6GB RAM after loading, it took 6GB VRAM while rendering and at the same time RAM usage went up to 12GB and it wasn't that heavy, couple of characters environment and lighting...

Also the trend seems to be going up with the size of textures and maps, without realizing the true effect on memory consumption - One 8192x8192x24bit texture file alone takes 192MB of memory, 4096x4096x24bit takes 48MB - One shader on one surface can have 4 to 5 maps in addition to the texture, how many can you use if these occupy almost 1GB of memory alone?

I went up to 64GB RAM, and still I noticed a huge improvement in responsiveness over 32GB, but with anything less than 32GB, you will be using your SSD or even worse your HD to replace the missing memory...

RAM is cheap, why create unnecessary problems for yourself by settling with too little...

ANGELREAPER1972

Wonderland/Alice is a professional artist she's done conventions and even been featured in Heavy Metal magazine so it is important for her to get best results she can https://www.facebook.com/AliciaHollingerArt

 

outrider42

Iray does not really double RAM when rendering, it is part of how the scene is processed and loaded. When using Daz itself, the scene in the viewport is not fully loaded. When you hit the render button, the scene will load into RAM, which is why you see this spike. Then the scene is processed and sent to the GPU VRAM. Iray has compression, and this is why the VRAM is always less. It is often around half, but it depends on your scene and what your Iray compression settings are. What you have in RAM is basically the uncompressed data from the scene.

So compressing textures yourself should greatly effect RAM usage, even more than it effects VRAM usage. This also effects speed. Smaller texture files obviously load faster, and in Iray they are a little easier for the shader engine to resolve. It is great to have high resolution RAW textures, but people don't realize that Iray actually does a lot of compression, otherwise we would need even more VRAM than we already do.

Certainly some products and features eat up memory like crazy, and indeed RAM is the easiest upgrade one can do. But again it all depends on each user as to how much they truly need.

scorpio

ANGELREAPER1972 said:

Wonderland/Alice is a professional artist she's done conventions and even been featured in Heavy Metal magazine so it is important for her to get best results she can https://www.facebook.com/AliciaHollingerArt

 

Yea and the rest of us .....I guess just don't matter.

3Diva

Yep, I tried to render the hair with the outfit and my computer was really struggling. The first time I tried it froze up my computer for several minutes - it finally unfroze and rendered the scene. The second time I tried rendering the outfit and hair my computer froze up and STAYED frozen. I waited a long time for it to unfreeze but it wouldn't so I had to do a force restart. And now my Daz Studio is completely borked. It will load but then it just freezes up and never unfreezes. This was yesterday and since then I've tried many times to try and get Daz Studio to respond and unfreeze. I've rebooted my computer several times. Daz Studio still won't work properly - all it will do is boot up and then IMMEDIATELY freeze and never unfreeze. I'm really NOT a happy camper...

outrider42

Ouch, I hate to hear that. It may have hung up with an important program file still writing, and thus became corrupted. I think you may have to reinstall Daz.

Is there a temp folder for Daz? Maybe that could be cleared.

3Diva

outrider42 said:

Ouch, I hate to hear that. It may have hung up with an important program file still writing, and thus became corrupted. I think you may have to reinstall Daz.

 

Is there a temp folder for Daz? Maybe that could be cleared.

I think that Daz has quite a few temp folders. I wouldn't really know what would be safe to delete and what wouldn't be. 

I fear you might be right that something got corrupted. :( I REALLY don't want to have to uninstall and reinstall Daz Studio as I'm pretty sure that will make me lose all of my custom categories, bookmarks and favorites, custom menus with Visual Menus, all my custom stuff with Man Friday's scripts, and everything I've spent vast amounts of time on. I've spent years organizing Daz Studio categories so that I can find things easier - I would most likely lose all of that. 

I hope there is a way to restore Daz Studio without losing all of that custom stuff that I've spent countless hours setting up.

Richard Haseltine

The Temp folder iss et in Edit>Preferences, Daz Studio>Preferences for a Mac.

3Diva

Richard Haseltine said:

The Temp folder iss et in Edit>Preferences, Daz Studio>Preferences for a Mac.

I can't access the version of Daz Studio that keeps freezing because the minute it boots up it immediately freezes. I can't navigate to "Edit > Preferences" because as soon as Daz Studio launches it doesn't respond and stays frozen.

j cade

3Diva said:

outrider42 said:

Ouch, I hate to hear that. It may have hung up with an important program file still writing, and thus became corrupted. I think you may have to reinstall Daz.

 

Is there a temp folder for Daz? Maybe that could be cleared.

I think that Daz has quite a few temp folders. I wouldn't really know what would be safe to delete and what wouldn't be. 

I fear you might be right that something got corrupted. :( I REALLY don't want to have to uninstall and reinstall Daz Studio as I'm pretty sure that will make me lose all of my custom categories, bookmarks and favorites, custom menus with Visual Menus, all my custom stuff with Man Friday's scripts, and everything I've spent vast amounts of time on. I've spent years organizing Daz Studio categories so that I can find things easier - I would most likely lose all of that. 

I hope there is a way to restore Daz Studio without losing all of that custom stuff that I've spent countless hours setting up.

 

Do other builds open? (Ie if you use the public build can you run the main build)

your best bet might be this script http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/scripting/api_reference/samples/general_ui/copy_ui_from_channel/start

 

you could copy your ui to another build and see if it copies over everything you need then you can reinstall and if the reinstall loses anything you can copy it back from the other build

Richard Haseltine

Try pasting

%AppData%/daz 3d/

into the address bar of a file browser. That will take you to the root folder with the various Daz application data folders - open the one for the problem version of DS and the Temp folder will, by default, be there. If DS is closed then it should be empty anyway so just clear it out (if it isn't).

3Diva

j cade said:

3Diva said:

outrider42 said:

Ouch, I hate to hear that. It may have hung up with an important program file still writing, and thus became corrupted. I think you may have to reinstall Daz.

 

Is there a temp folder for Daz? Maybe that could be cleared.

I think that Daz has quite a few temp folders. I wouldn't really know what would be safe to delete and what wouldn't be. 

I fear you might be right that something got corrupted. :( I REALLY don't want to have to uninstall and reinstall Daz Studio as I'm pretty sure that will make me lose all of my custom categories, bookmarks and favorites, custom menus with Visual Menus, all my custom stuff with Man Friday's scripts, and everything I've spent vast amounts of time on. I've spent years organizing Daz Studio categories so that I can find things easier - I would most likely lose all of that. 

I hope there is a way to restore Daz Studio without losing all of that custom stuff that I've spent countless hours setting up.

 

Do other builds open? (Ie if you use the public build can you run the main build)

your best bet might be this script http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/scripting/api_reference/samples/general_ui/copy_ui_from_channel/start

 

you could copy your ui to another build and see if it copies over everything you need then you can reinstall and if the reinstall loses anything you can copy it back from the other build

Oh wow, that sounds like it could be a huge help - I assume I need to change all the text in red to something else? There's a lot of red text there, what do I change that to? 

If I want to copy the Regular Release Version of Daz Studio's UI and get it to work in Daz Studio Beta, what would I need to add to that script to do that? I don't know a thing about scriptwriting or editing.

*Edit - OH! It looks like I didn't need to change any of the text in red, the script works perfectly as is! Thank you SO MUCH, j cade!! Ahhhhh This is awesome! Now I'm not NEARLY as stressed about maybe needing to reinstalling Daz Studio (which it's looking like I'll probably need to do that).  THANK YOU!! This script is fantastic! :D I might still lose my custom categories but at least I won't lose all my UI changes and custom scripts.