Genesis 8.1 / Victoria 8.1

Hylas

PerttiA said:

Hylas said:

Matt_Castle said:

 

(Also, as noted, there is a minor conflict between the sets, as both sets have controls labelled "Mouth Smile" and "Mouth Frown" that will merge into one slider on default DS settings, although that is not fundamentally something that had to be an issue and can be resolved by editing the files to change the labels, which should not affect presets, as those use the internal naming to set their values).

Can someone give me a step-by-step for dummies on how to rename the old frown and smile? Thank you!

There are two ways to do this;

1. Find the "Mouth Smile" and "Mouth Frown" morphfiles in Genesis 8 Male/Female morph folders, open the files in Notepad++ and change the "Label" from "Mouth Smile" to "Mouth_Smile" and save, same with the Frown.

2. Open DS, clear the scene if you have anything loading by default, Load the "Genesis 8 Base Female" or "Genesis 8 Female Dev Load", in parameters tab navigate to the "Mouth Smile" dial, and open the properties (with the gogwheel), change the Label from "Mouth Smile" to "Mouth_Smile" and press "Ok". Do the same with the Frown-dial, then perform File->Save As->Support Asset->Save Modified Assets, which will do essentially the same as option no1. - Repeat the process with the male figure.

Thanks!

Method 1 didn't work...

Method 2 did work. But one has to make 4 adjustments per figure. Select the figure, adjust Mouth Smile and Mouth Frown; then select the figure's head, and make both adjustments again.

Now that I think about it, the reason why method 1 didn't work probably was because I only adjusted 2 morph files per figure instead of 4.

ChallyII

Daventaki said:

-snip-

Thanks- that isn't what I was asking. I can load Genesis 8.1, apply the morphs and matts from a Genesis 8 character, and they appear identical side-by-side as far as I can tell. What I wanted to know, is if there's a way to load a character from the characters tab, and have it load in with Genesis 8.1 morphs instead of Genesis8. The answer, apparently is no. 

 

I guess my next question is 'Why?'

PerttiA

Hylas said:

PerttiA said:

Hylas said:

Matt_Castle said:

 

(Also, as noted, there is a minor conflict between the sets, as both sets have controls labelled "Mouth Smile" and "Mouth Frown" that will merge into one slider on default DS settings, although that is not fundamentally something that had to be an issue and can be resolved by editing the files to change the labels, which should not affect presets, as those use the internal naming to set their values).

Can someone give me a step-by-step for dummies on how to rename the old frown and smile? Thank you!

There are two ways to do this;

1. Find the "Mouth Smile" and "Mouth Frown" morphfiles in Genesis 8 Male/Female morph folders, open the files in Notepad++ and change the "Label" from "Mouth Smile" to "Mouth_Smile" and save, same with the Frown.

2. Open DS, clear the scene if you have anything loading by default, Load the "Genesis 8 Base Female" or "Genesis 8 Female Dev Load", in parameters tab navigate to the "Mouth Smile" dial, and open the properties (with the gogwheel), change the Label from "Mouth Smile" to "Mouth_Smile" and press "Ok". Do the same with the Frown-dial, then perform File->Save As->Support Asset->Save Modified Assets, which will do essentially the same as option no1. - Repeat the process with the male figure.

Thanks!

Method 1 didn't work...

Method 2 did work. But one has to make 4 adjustments per figure. Select the figure, adjust Mouth Smile and Mouth Frown; then select the figure's head, and make both adjustments again.

Now that I think about it, the reason why method 1 didn't work probably was because I only adjusted 2 morph files per figure instead of 4.

Ok, I forgot the Alias-files for the head. 

PerttiA

ChallyII said:

Daventaki said:

-snip-

Thanks- that isn't what I was asking. I can load Genesis 8.1, apply the morphs and matts from a Genesis 8 character, and they appear identical side-by-side as far as I can tell. What I wanted to know, is if there's a way to load a character from the characters tab, and have it load in with Genesis 8.1 morphs instead of Genesis8. The answer, apparently is no. 

 

I guess my next question is 'Why?'

If you load a G8 character, it doesn't see the G8.1 morphs as they are located in G8.1 morph folders, which no G8 knows anything about.

On the other hand if the Character is G8.1, DS 4.15 has been instructed the show both the G8 and G8.1 morph folders to it, so it load morphs for both generations.

j cade

PerttiA said:

Hylas said:

So, I did the thing where I deleted the two folders to get 8.0 expressions to work on 8.1. buuuuuuuuut... is there a way to keep the 8.0 and 8.1 sliders apart? Now they're all jumbled together and I don't love it.

Was this the reason for disabling them in the first place?...  

I'm pretty confident you're spot on with this -  there are a bunch of new expressions that replace the old functionality but are slightly different - keeping around 2 sets of mouth open dials, 2 sets of eye close, 2 sets of cheeks puff etc etc etc would be quite messy, I would find it confusing, let alone some poor new user coming in.

unfortunately some expression poses and dials use those building blocks so those stop working (this is why some expressions still work fine - ones that only move bones and don't rely on anything else work just fine)

 

aaaand to answer the initial question on ways to seperate old from new - you definitely should be able to! DS lets you reorganize morphs and pose controls - the fastest way is probably to use something like notepad++ to edit all the relevant expression dsfs (theyre found in \Content\data\Daz 3D\Genesis 8\Female\Morphs\DAZ 3D\Base Pose Head)

• open any of these and you'll be able to find a line that says "group" : "/Pose Controls/Head/Mouth/Tongue"  
• if you edit this to say something like "group" : "/Pose Controls/Head/Genesis 8/Mouth/Tongue" all the dials will now be categorized that way and thus seperate from the new ones - because its just changing where they show in DS it won't break any dependencies.
• to make this all super fast you can open all the dsfs in the folder and do a search and replace in all open documents and replace /Pose Controls/Head/ with /Pose Controls/Head/Genesis 8/ and then save all 

 

you can also recategorize morphs and pose controlls in DS itself - but I find editing the files both faster and easier

for completeness in DS:

• right click on a morph or pose and turn on edit mode
• right click the set of morphs you want to move and go set > property group 
• move them where you want them
• if when you are editing the group you have selected have a ? for the curent location the files you are trying to move are currently in multiple locations and if you move them somewhere they will be combined
• this means you need to do this for every category - you can move all the mouth controlls together but not the mouth and tongue controlss together without combining them
• go to file>save as>support assets>save modified assets (make sure you are working on a otherwise unmodified genesis 8 or 8.1 if you have loaded genesis via an actor preset, when you hit save modified assets those morps will auto load with the base genesis)

 

worth noting I have not done this specifically but I batch edit and reorder morphs etc all the time

also back up before doing this I always back up my dsfs in a rar in the same folder before editing them

jbowler

ChallyII said:

Daventaki said:

-snip-

Thanks- that isn't what I was asking. I can load Genesis 8.1, apply the morphs and matts from a Genesis 8 character, and they appear identical side-by-side as far as I can tell. What I wanted to know, is if there's a way to load a character from the characters tab, and have it load in with Genesis 8.1 morphs instead of Genesis8. The answer, apparently is no. 

It just works; if you load a G8 character present onto the G8.1 Basic Female or Male (as appropriate) you get a G8.1 character with the G8 maps so long as you use Daz 4.15; that version of Daz apparently has fix-up code which deals with the changed surfaces (Torso->Body+Head).

Here's a step by step.  I've loaded G8.1 Basic Male and selected the figure in the scene tab, here I double click on the Hugren character preset:

Note the dialog and that I have "Load a new Figure" selected.  This is the wrong setting for this purpose, it will create a new figure that that will be a G8M figure, not G8.1M.  So I must select the other option before I click "OK".  After I do that I have this georgeous figure:

I know it is an 8.1 figure because of the surfaces.  An obvious example is the "head" surface, new in 8.1; DAZStudio 4.15 has conveniently copied the G8M Torso surface to the texture map, thus:

The shaders are also correct; Hugren's skin uses the Iray Uber shader base and this is, in fact, the shader base that is set on a new G8.1M Basic Male.  I haven't double checked what happens if an 8.1 character (it would have to be Michael at present) using PBRSkin is applied to to the G8.1 Basic Male, I assume it would swap out the shader bases.

s_j_gregory

The New PBRskin

Someone likely has mentioned this and I didn't hoist it in; but, it came to me when I should have been sleeping. . . . I did not tinker with shader settings or lighting, which some might say makes the observation meaningless. . .

I find the Uber Shader and PBRskin Shader produce quite different results.  That is likely a matter of settings and others have shown some amazing results earlier on in this thread with the new shader.  (I have to get V or M8.1 first I yhink to get a jumping off point.)  But I often find myself down the 'why' rabit hole.  And one of my longstanding 'whys' was render time; and another was the difference between preview and render images.  So I put the 'whys' together and got a 'wow!'. 

In words: the new skin shader will 'Filament Preview' something that much more closely resembles an iray randered result.  Maybe that's a blinding glimps of the obvious?  I don't know.  But I like it.

Daventaki

j cade said:

aaaand to answer the initial question on ways to seperate old from new - you definitely should be able to! DS lets you reorganize morphs and pose controls - the fastest way is probably to use something like notepad++ to edit all the relevant expression dsfs (theyre found in \Content\data\Daz 3D\Genesis 8\Female\Morphs\DAZ 3D\Base Pose Head)

• open any of these and you'll be able to find a line that says "group" : "/Pose Controls/Head/Mouth/Tongue"  
• if you edit this to say something like "group" : "/Pose Controls/Head/Genesis 8/Mouth/Tongue" all the dials will now be categorized that way and thus seperate from the new ones - because its just changing where they show in DS it won't break any dependencies.
• to make this all super fast you can open all the dsfs in the folder and do a search and replace in all open documents and replace /Pose Controls/Head/ with /Pose Controls/Head/Genesis 8/ and then save all

So Ive started this and someone else stated to change the color and I am also modifing the Label to include G8 or G8.1.

My question is what are the alias files?  What do they do?  I noticed they have some of the same parameters in them and when I change the color of just the eCTRL file it does not apply but the Label and Group does. If I change the color in both alias and eCTRL file it changes like it should.

Richard Haseltine

Daventaki said:

j cade said:

aaaand to answer the initial question on ways to seperate old from new - you definitely should be able to! DS lets you reorganize morphs and pose controls - the fastest way is probably to use something like notepad++ to edit all the relevant expression dsfs (theyre found in \Content\data\Daz 3D\Genesis 8\Female\Morphs\DAZ 3D\Base Pose Head)

• open any of these and you'll be able to find a line that says "group" : "/Pose Controls/Head/Mouth/Tongue"  
• if you edit this to say something like "group" : "/Pose Controls/Head/Genesis 8/Mouth/Tongue" all the dials will now be categorized that way and thus seperate from the new ones - because its just changing where they show in DS it won't break any dependencies.
• to make this all super fast you can open all the dsfs in the folder and do a search and replace in all open documents and replace /Pose Controls/Head/ with /Pose Controls/Head/Genesis 8/ and then save all

So Ive started this and someone else stated to change the color and I am also modifing the Label to include G8 or G8.1.

My question is what are the alias files?  What do they do?  I noticed they have some of the same parameters in them and when I change the color of just the eCTRL file it does not apply but the Label and Group does. If I change the color in both alias and eCTRL file it changes like it should.

The Alias is like a Mac Alias (which has nothing to do with the same thing under a different name) - it's a way to access a proeprty from another location (for example, putting a head morph on the head as well as on the figure).

s_j_gregory

Daventaki said:

to make this all

super fast you can open all the dsfs in the folder and do a search and replace in all open documents and replace /Pose Controls/Head/ with /Pose Controls/Head/Genesis 8/ and then save all

 

Curious about this part.  Are you opening all of the .dsf files (at once) in Notepad++ to pull off 'batch' edits

Hylas

j cade said:

I'm pretty confident you're spot on with this -  there are a bunch of new expressions that replace the old functionality but are slightly different - keeping around 2 sets of mouth open dials, 2 sets of eye close, 2 sets of cheeks puff etc etc etc would be quite messy, I would find it confusing, let alone some poor new user coming in.

unfortunately some expression poses and dials use those building blocks so those stop working (this is why some expressions still work fine - ones that only move bones and don't rely on anything else work just fine)

 

aaaand to answer the initial question on ways to seperate old from new - you definitely should be able to! DS lets you reorganize morphs and pose controls - the fastest way is probably to use something like notepad++ to edit all the relevant expression dsfs (theyre found in \Content\data\Daz 3D\Genesis 8\Female\Morphs\DAZ 3D\Base Pose Head)

• open any of these and you'll be able to find a line that says "group" : "/Pose Controls/Head/Mouth/Tongue"  
• if you edit this to say something like "group" : "/Pose Controls/Head/Genesis 8/Mouth/Tongue" all the dials will now be categorized that way and thus seperate from the new ones - because its just changing where they show in DS it won't break any dependencies.
• to make this all super fast you can open all the dsfs in the folder and do a search and replace in all open documents and replace /Pose Controls/Head/ with /Pose Controls/Head/Genesis 8/ and then save all 

 

you can also recategorize morphs and pose controlls in DS itself - but I find editing the files both faster and easier

for completeness in DS:

• right click on a morph or pose and turn on edit mode
• right click the set of morphs you want to move and go set > property group 
• move them where you want them
• if when you are editing the group you have selected have a ? for the curent location the files you are trying to move are currently in multiple locations and if you move them somewhere they will be combined
• this means you need to do this for every category - you can move all the mouth controlls together but not the mouth and tongue controlss together without combining them
• go to file>save as>support assets>save modified assets (make sure you are working on a otherwise unmodified genesis 8 or 8.1 if you have loaded genesis via an actor preset, when you hit save modified assets those morps will auto load with the base genesis)

 

worth noting I have not done this specifically but I batch edit and reorder morphs etc all the time

also back up before doing this I always back up my dsfs in a rar in the same folder before editing them

Thanks! I'm happy for now with my colour change solution, but this is useful information to have.

I've been playing around with expressions for the last few hours and I'm really glad I reactivated the 8.0 sliders.

Not necessarily because I want to use my old expressions... I don't have that many expression packs anyway and the 8.1 expression morphs are so superior to the 8.0 ones (in my opinion) that I doubt I'll be using 8.0 expressions much going forward.

But I feel the 8.1 set of expression morphs isn't always very intuitive and it seems to be missing some functions. Perhaps it's just because I'm so used to the 8.0 way of doing it. In any case, my current MO is to dial expressions with mainly 8.1 sliders and occasinally use 8.0 if I can't figure it out with 8.1 alone. I'm liking my results so far!

Daventaki

s_j_gregory said:

Daventaki said:

to make this all

super fast you can open all the dsfs in the folder and do a search and replace in all open documents and replace /Pose Controls/Head/ with /Pose Controls/Head/Genesis 8/ and then save all

 

Curious about this part.  Are you opening all of the .dsf files (at once) in Notepad++ to pull off 'batch' edits

Yes im using Notepad++   I haven't done all of them but I do in batches of 10 or so, usually all the same group (ie: Lip) then use the Replace in All open documents to change the values.

Toyen

Finally got around to rendering the new Vicky! Love her!

3DRenderBoy

Leana said:

HenryYrnet said:

Greetings, everyone. I just want to know HOW to update/iupgrade to Genesis 8.1?

Reinstall G8 starter essentials and DS default resources.

(I am sorry but I am really confused with DAZ's Forum. I do not know how to get notifications WITHIN Daz Forum, nor I can answer to 'quates' properly. I saw your answer in my e-mail. I am sorry if I make/made mistakes.)

Do you mean for both genders? DIM installed for both genders separate Genesis 8 Starter Essentials.

pbergmann_c6b73c8588

Toyen said:

Finally got around to rendering the new Vicky! Love her!

This looks really fantastic!

Great photorealism.

JVRenderer

Genesis 8.1 Female. I tweaked the IrayPBR shader, the eyes, tear. I used bluejaunte's Amira HD texture, G8F shapes. 
No postwork except for the signature and contrast adjustment.

MelissaGT

So has anybody found visemes for G8.1? I had them for G8 but can't find them on G8.1...

Tugpsx

JVRenderer said:

Genesis 8.1 Female. I tweaked the IrayPBR shader, the eyes, tear. I used bluejaunte's Amira HD texture, G8F shapes. 
No postwork except for the signature and contrast adjustment.

Wow the skin looks good, do you mind sharing your iRay PBR shader setting? 

AllenArt

JVRenderer said:

Genesis 8.1 Female. I tweaked the IrayPBR shader, the eyes, tear. I used bluejaunte's Amira HD texture, G8F shapes. 
No postwork except for the signature and contrast adjustment.

 

Nice one Joe! :)

 

alienarea

Not sure if it has been mentioned before: Victoria 8.1 is not as tall as Victoria 8, which is more realistic.

In Iray preview, her teeth look a bit too yellow.

The vellus hair (especially mouth) can be shortened.

The Genesis 8.1 default map says all maps but doesn't include anatomical elements.

Luciel

melissastjames said:

So has anybody found visemes for G8.1? I had them for G8 but can't find them on G8.1...

The only way i've found to get visemes on 8.1 is to load an 8 character onto the 8.1 base. 

This will add the visemes in the normal place (head/visemes, and they still work), and then you can load an 8.1 character over that.

So basically, load basic 8.1, load any Genesis 8 ontop of that, and then load the 8.1 character after for visemes. 

fred9803

I really like what can be achieved with V8.1 and the new shader. These pictures look stunning. I'm curious though about the slow uptake by PAs of the updated model and its new features. Usually after a new release there's a flood of products in the store.

Zilvergrafix

To some Savvy:

Why when I import Victoria for use in another 3D app does not import all the textures?, somebody knows? are the mighty new channel/parameter textures used in the "new" PBR Skin shader a Top Secret Military Grade?

I had to get inside directly on the Victoria Runtime textures and collect all such textures.

Leonides02

fred9803 said:

I really like what can be achieved with V8.1 and the new shader. These pictures look stunning. I'm curious though about the slow uptake by PAs of the updated model and its new features. Usually after a new release there's a flood of products in the store.

Agreed. I feel like I won't buy another figure unless it's PBR / 8.1 !

 

Siciliano1969

Leonides02 said:

fred9803 said:

I really like what can be achieved with V8.1 and the new shader. These pictures look stunning. I'm curious though about the slow uptake by PAs of the updated model and its new features. Usually after a new release there's a flood of products in the store.

Agreed. I feel like I won't buy another figure unless it's PBR / 8.1 !

Huge thumbs up on this!  Any new character has to be at least at the Victoria 8.1 level for me.  I just absolutely love the new 8.1 and PBR shaders!  For the first time I don't have to do major fiddling with the shaders and now I am just having fun posing and rendering.  Huge hats off to the DAZ team!

Damsel

I am REALLY liking 8.1. A LOT. Really a lot. So where TF are they? I wants me some Asian and Black and Indigenous and East Asian characters. Yesterday would be good. I'm a cover artist, and my clients do every race and gender (up to and including werewolves and assorted aliens in interesting shades). So I really am not interested in any more 8 anything, which often look waxy and/or too red. Gimmee 8.1s, please. Also a skin shader system for exotic skin colors (oranges and blues, etc.; there is one for 8) for 8.1. Please? Pretty please?

MelissaGT

I personally won't be using the new shader until/if Daz adds back the scatter and transmit intensity setting. Without that, skin just looks too flat with nothing underneath. If I see a character I like, the textures can be converted back to the Uber Shader easy enough (which is also a "PBR" shader, btw so don't let the misleading name play fool you). 

(I don't understand why Daz chose to remove features from the previous shader, even with adding some new stuff...like why...when there's no adequate alternative/replacement with the new stuff)

MelissaGT

Luciel said:

melissastjames said:

So has anybody found visemes for G8.1? I had them for G8 but can't find them on G8.1...

The only way i've found to get visemes on 8.1 is to load an 8 character onto the 8.1 base. 

This will add the visemes in the normal place (head/visemes, and they still work), and then you can load an 8.1 character over that.

So basically, load basic 8.1, load any Genesis 8 ontop of that, and then load the 8.1 character after for visemes. 

Ok, so I loaded a base G8.1F and then tried to load Angharad 8 over that...and DAZ is like NOPE. Hangs. Cntrl+Alt+Delete. 

I suppose the question remains...ARE THERE SUPPOSED TO BE VISEMES FOR 8.1 AND IF NO, WHY NOT? 

Masterstroke

Not ready for PBR shaders either, until some realy amazing shader presets are coming.
So not a no here, just a not yet.

Zilvergrafix

IMHO They are only "shaders", the only difference is the open slots, here named as "channels" or "parameters / sliders"

Named in any other way doesn't make a shader as The Holy Grail Discovered Shader of the XXI era. (When I read "Daz PBR Skin Shader")

what if that was named XYZ Skin Shader or Pixar Shader or UnrealEngine5SkinShader or Genesis9PreviewPBRShader?...head explodes.