I'm making a sci-fi series/graphic novel/script.. DAZ anphotoshop.
Ikyoto
Posts: 1,159
I'm making a sci-fi series/graphic novel/script
Teaser - pg 1 of 24 for issue #0 - the guide. Will be free, at least #0 will be..
And yes. Hollywood is involved.Tv or Big screen is undecided. Thoughts?
And stuff used will be listed in each issue.
page_01.jpg
792 x 1224 - 304K
Post edited by Ikyoto on
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Don't forget to include a cute, cuddly mascot. It'll make millions in merchandise if your series becomes a big hit.
“Thoughts?”
Are you serious or is this a joke?
I agree. Where's the beef? No thoughts are valid unless we get some more juicy details, like a page or two?
Don't forget to include a cute, cuddly mascot. It'll make millions in merchandise if your series becomes a big hit.There are actually a few, the two mains have "pets", of whom the other main is usually terrified of.
Combine both characters into one. Whenever a character declares themselves as "cute" and says "everybody loves me", your readers will typically feel exactly the opposite towards them. It's the Mary Sue effect - people backlash against it.
For proof, look at Jar Jar Binks and how much hatred that character - quite justifiably - generated.
If the purpose of this is to try and poke fun at what you feel is an overly dry style of tutorial presentation, then simply make the personality more charismatic. Problem solved. :)
Can't wait to see more, Sir Squirrel :)
Ok then, serious it is.
My thoughts;
If I were a comic book editor, my first comment to you would be, why did you use an entire page for something that should been done in a frame or two?
In the golden age of comics, when comics were printed; paper, ink, and labor cost money. Comic book creators couldn’t afford to waste space; therefore they were forced to write tight stories with no waste. Everyone I’ve seen creating stories using DAZ suffer from the same problem, they are not forced to write a tight story. They ramble on and on and on; I’ve seen where dialog goes on for page after page after page. Nothing will lose an audience faster than a rambling story.
As is often said, “You have one chance to make a first impression.” Your first page should introduce your main characters, and set the stage (who, where, and what’s going on). Your first page start off with two people talking without telling me anything about them, I know your going say that will be taken care of in the following pages, but makes a large assumption that your audience will read past the first page. Also, it’s important to have some kind of hook to hook your audience into wanting more.
Your artwork doesn’t have a lot of life; everything seems to have the same intensity. Because of that your characters don’t stand out from the background. Your characters should be brighter than and more saturated then their background. This will make them pop and draw the reader eyes to them. Your choice in lighting isn’t very appealing either it doesn’t flatter your characters. I can’t get over the shiny character; it looks like she’s a plastic figure.
Every aspiring comics/graphic novel artist should have this book!
Starting with the "bad" stuff, you're making 3 of the things that go with all the terrible Daz/Poser comics we see for years:
- Cheap tits: Looking like an opportunity to show breasts (seriously, 90% of the bad 3D production is close to softporn, you've got to aim higher)
- Lack of homogeneity: you don't have a specific feel or a look to your comic, resulting for instance in your 2 girls looking like they're coming from a different artist
- Grandeur: I would say it is very difficult to find help and be taken seriously when you talk about the "first issue being free at least" when your production is not yet convincing [EDIT: this sounds harsh as I reread it, but my intent is to be constructive and I do not mean to offend]
Now for the good:
- You have a goal and apparently a full story in mind, which is brilliant and will help when you feel you're about to give up (which will come if you're aiming for something qualitative).
My advice at this point:
- Stop rendering altogether. Work on your script, write down the main tenets of your story.
- Take a pencil and paper and create very ugly, quickly drawn panels of how that would translate visually.
- Refine the dialogs.
- When you're sick of it, create a scene here and there for motivation.
- Go back to dialogs, panels and story and swap between the tasks. After the first night of sleep, you will change quite a few things and the story will already be better. The 20th time you read your dialogue aloud, even you will find out why people deem find it heavy and unrealistic (as the author, it's not that easy to find out).
- Before doing serious renders, find the look you want and make sure all your characters have the same feel
- Don't spend too much time finishing your early pages. By the time you're finished, you will redo them anyway because your skills at storytelling will be much better.
Once you're done, it doesn't really matter if you are fully convinced or not. You've done it, which is more than most of the people starting 3D comics can say! And you will be better prepared for the next one.
At that point, I will suggest reading books about making comics, going deeper into what makes it good or bad, how it works, what you can do with it. There is currently a MOOC at coursera, if you can bear the eccentric prof. Kuskin.
Something I find helpful is to simply copy a comic page. It will give you insight into why it works, how to read the dialogue, etc. Attached is a copy of a page from the 60s by John Severin with Daz people and elements, rendered with PWToon.
Good luck!
Remember, whatever you decide, finish it and you will be way better next time!
FlyingBaloo,
You are correct on all counts. I still see many 3D comics like this. Even after the introduction of pwToon and many other cel/cartoon shaders out in the market.
Having said that, using these cel shaders is not an easy task. And you will need to get creative when it comes to adding effects such as explosions and action lines, etc. Manga Studio is a software that can help with many of these issues.
And keeping ones characters consistent is also another challenge as every artist does not create their figures and vehicles in the same way.
Anyone one who starts using these shaders will soon find all this out the hard way. I do believe that a comic created with these toon shaders is more pleasing than 99% of the 3D comics out there; if done well, one can still create a mess.
I have been working on a sci-fi graphic novel of my own, it's taken me time to learn all this and I am still learning.
Samples:
Just to be clear, I am not advocating a specific render style over any other.
My example happened to be pwtoon-based, but the main goal was that it was emulating classic comic books to understand the basics.
Cheers and godspeed!
I am guilty of adding my gripe about the style of regular 3D comics.
:D
Cheers mate!
First, congrats on having an idea and actually getting started on it, that's two steps farther than most people.
Second, I echo Cris's suggestion, it's an excellent book.
Third, I agree with much of what's been said regarding the 3D vs 2D look. I would also heartily recommend pwToon. If you've already done a large portion of the renders and dread the thought of starting over with new shaders, you can always take a quick run at filters and plug-ins. I recommend Topaz Clean: for a minor investment, you can run a few tests to find a setting you like and have PhotoShop batch process all of your images. I don't, as a rule, download people's artwork from here, but since you asked for opinions, I downloaded your sample page and ran the filter on just the characters. I didn't spend any time on fine-tuning settings or making an accurate selection, the attached image is the basic "Cartoon Detailed" setting; it can be adjusted a gazillion ways, and once done, can be used as another layer over your actual artwork for different effects. It also works better on larger images. If you'd like me to test a few images for you, or see some other samples to give you a better idea of what it's capable of, PM me.
Fourth, I, personally, don't care for the layout as a comic page; I think the images and info could have been arranged to take up half a page, rather than a full page. I don't feel I'm getting my money's worth here. That said, I think what you have does work much better as a script for animation or a movie, where I would imagine the first character speaking and the second either squeezing onto the scene or hijacking it.
I recognized that the plastic/shiny character isn't human, but an android/robot/AL, so that's not a problem.
That's off the top of my head, hope some of it helps. If there's anything I can do to help, let me know.
Good luck.
-- Walt Sterdan
I don't think I'd buy it just because he needs an ego check. To label himself legendary whether he is or not, is just downright tacky. But thanks for the heads up Cris :)
I do think he used contrast in colors, his background behind the circles is dark and the girls do stand out. I like the over exuberant smile of the one girl, you can tell she is quite pleased with herself. It's MEANT to be over the top.
I don't think I'd buy it just because he needs an ego check. To label himself legendary whether he is or not, is just downright tacky.
They probably chose that over "By the guy after whom the industry awards are named", which was deemed over the top.
There are 2 books deconstructing comics that are ubiquitous in such discussions, this one and the first Scott McCloud: Understanding Comics. I would really recommend getting both.
I will never understand why people force a 2D look from a 3D environment. To me, it is such a step backwards. 3D implementations look so much better to me than the toon shaded variety. Not knocking anyone's preference in going that route, I just think the 3D look looks much better. There are bad 3D comics just as there are bad 2D comics. Choosing either variety should be nothing more than a choice of which medium they wish to represent... not being a given simply because it is the mainstream approach.
But thats just my .02 cents.
At any rate, Good Luck with your comic!
-MJ
Mmmm....
First of, congrats on making the first page come true! :D
I like the renders. They are quirky and popcorn. :-) The ladies seem to have some history and clash nicely. The 3D works wel, too.
What I'm missing is the hook at the end of the page which will make me want to turn to page 2. I mean, the characters squabbling is nice and cute, and all, but WHY should I continue reading this story?
More squabbling? Not interesting enough, unless there's some real and dire consequence hinted at for either character, which I currently don't see.
Some "101 of Commonwealth tutorial"? *snore* (and while I personally love universe explanations and background info in general... I don't like infodumping on the first few pages, just like most of my fellow readers).
So... what makes your story different from all the ten thousands of other similar stories that I put down after the first page because they don't grip my attention?
I really don't have a problem with 3D comics that are done well.
http://www.runekeepers.com/ (Free)
http://www.thetalosproject.com/ (unfinished webcomic)
http://www.thedreamlandchronicles.com/ (more for kids than adults)
But how many out there can claim to get to this level? And even when they do, interest in them is just not there no matter how great the story is, simply because the comic is in 3D. This bias really exists and the perception about them is not going away when we have so many badly made 3D comics hitting the web all the time.
If my first post falls flat it is in the way I made it seem like all 3D comics are not that visually appealing. Which is why I commented "I was guilty."
Ikyoto probably has a hit on his hands. I really wouldn't know at this point. Like I commented previously there is not enough material to provide an informed opinion.
I hope the 3D comic I am creating does a little to change that bias towards 3D comics.
*** EDIT ***
I must check out those other comics. I was only aware of the Dreamland one.
-MJ
It's definitely a preference, not a hard-and-fast rule. Part of it is merely 50+ years or reading them and 15+ years working in the industry, and being used to a particular "look".
Beyond personal preference, I often have two reasons for preferring 2D:
1. 3D comics don't always reproduce well in print if they're printed on anything other than high end or glossy paper. They can look great in digital format, but once the ink hits the paper, any dot spread at all tends to make things look a little muddy. To be fair, I find the same thing happens with very detailed, 2d artwork with a lot of shadows. I prefer less-dense artwork in my comics, although the opposite can look great on covers and posters, and cards. When the panels start geting smaller, I find things often get a little too dark. I prefer more open and simpler artwork for comic interiors, 2D and 3D.
2. Word balloons. I haven't yet seen a really good method of doing the word balloons without them looking like stickers stuck on photographs. It always looks, to me, like the word balloons and the artwork don't belong together.
Again, merely my personal preferences, which certainly isn't a good reason for someone to not do a 3D comic. ;-)
-- Walt Sterdan
There's some good suggestions in here. A person really knows what they like and they have at least the concept/idea of the whole story in their head, but it's useful to know what will keep readers from picking up the book. It's easy to forget that they don't know the synopsis of the story and don't know where it's headed or what's going to happen. And they might be just a bit too impatient/get bored waiting to find out.
Time to go back and start reworking mine, although another thing to keep in mind (this has had me struggling for a while now)
From what I've read, a standard U.S. comic book is roughly 32 pages and I'm guessing an average of 6-8 panels per page.
This means to release a comic each month (as many comics are monthly issues) you need to have at least 1 page COMPLETE each day (6-8 scenes rendered and all postwork completed including text and other effects, cut and put together into a "page") in order to just make the 1 month deadline (actually, that takes you over 1 day on a 31 day month)
That's an awful lot of work to try and keep up with.
Hello
I bought and downloaded pwtoon now using the DIM,
it was installed using the DIM too ... But I can not find it there in Daz Studio ...
Where is it located?
It should be under Shader Presets in pwToon_DS4.
Don't forget to download the Crescent's pwToon Cel Shaders presets:
http://www.sharecg.com/v/69733/browse/21/DAZ-Studio/Crescents-pwToon-Cel-Shaders
Here are the tutorials:
http://cyonixgfx.deviantart.com/art/pwToon-Tutorial-1-The-Basics-257226861
http://cyonixgfx.deviantart.com/art/pwToon-Tutorial-2-DAZ-Gen-3-257227270
It should be under Shader Presets in pwToon_DS4.
Don't forget to download the Crescent's pwToon Cel Shaders presets:
http://www.sharecg.com/v/69733/browse/21/DAZ-Studio/Crescents-pwToon-Cel-Shaders
Here are the tutorials:
http://cyonixgfx.deviantart.com/art/pwToon-Tutorial-1-The-Basics-257226861
http://cyonixgfx.deviantart.com/art/pwToon-Tutorial-2-DAZ-Gen-3-257227270
Hmm, ok
Thank you
Now , let me see what it is capable ...
Regarding the comics listed above, out of curiosity, are any of them "Poser Comics"?
-MJ
They probably chose that over "By the guy after whom the industry awards are named", which was deemed over the top.
There are 2 books deconstructing comics that are ubiquitous in such discussions, this one and the first Scott McCloud: Understanding Comics. I would really recommend getting both.
I have some knowledge of the comicbook industry, and Will Eisner is indeed a legend, so that was probably the book publisher trying to cash in on his history. And Scott MccLoud's is absolutely necessary reading. There are so many gems of wisdom in there. If you plan to create a comicbook, you need to read Understanding Comics.
Regarding the comics listed above, out of curiosity, are any of them "Poser Comics"?
-MJ
Dreamland Chronicles is done in Max. Not sure about the other two.
Regarding the comics listed above, out of curiosity, are any of them "Poser Comics"?
-MJ
They don't seem to be. You can pretty much tell DAZ 3D and Poser content even when it is used in some other 3D rendering application.
I did several test shots in DAZ Studio using extensive use of shaders and the Light Dome Pro-R lightset for a 3D art style I was working towards.
This is one of those test renders:
http://ndelphi.deviantart.com/art/Enforcer-01-Armor-Marines-482334848
The above is the type of art I would like to see more of in 3D comics. It's got depth and atmosphere, and great use of shadows.
Study Stonemason's recent art work. Now a 3D comic using his style would really rock.