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I knew Dreamland Chronicles wasnt, The Talos Project looked potentially "Poserized", but I wasnt certain. I cant view any content for Rune Keepers.
-MJ
Yeah, every time I see something using cartoon-style shaders, to replicate cell-shading, it descends way too far into uncanny valley territory. At that point, far from giving emphasis to the intended style, it just winds up ending as a distraction and I wish they'd just tried leaving it in the original render's own style.
The exception to that rule is when I've seen some of the higher quality artistic filters which can plausibly convert a render into the style of a physical brush painting. There are some exceptionally good ones for surprisingly cheap prices for us iPad users.
For my own project, which is a motion-comic, I've decided to do everything in Reality 3 (when it arrives for Daz Studio) and then decide whether to convert the end results to painting style or simply leave them as they are. Or possibly just do a conventional comic in painting style, but have the motion-comic in Reality 3 renders, for clarity while in movement. Shall decide when all the rendering is done and I can fairly compare/contrast the two version.
Here a quick test
I tested all without handling the SETTINGS / configurations of the surfaces, just applying the direct model, with the selection tool surface.
the two I liked best are these: (well, I bought it a few hours ago ...)
snazzy toon
and
Toon Noir
I think I know what you are talking about. Correct me if I am wrong.
This happens when someone takes a cel shader like pwToon and just applies it to a model with realistic textures. To me this has never looked right.
What I do is either not use textures or if I do I make sure I convert the texture to white and black. I then use the diffuse channel's color settings to set the color.
I use the same treatment with inanimate objects, like say a bench with a realistic wood texture.
The above can also apply to Reality/LuxRender. If you use a 3D object with non-realistic textures don't expect to get much realism from your LuxRender image.
I believe The Talos Project is done in Maya. He lists his preferred software as Maya and ZBrush.
-- Walt Sterdan
I agree. As with cartoons, I think your chance of success goes up the more stylized or toonish your characters and world are.
-- Walt Sterdan
And here I used Akvis Artwork, and merge layers in gimp
Hello,
these days I've been looking for this technique the tutorial below
and I'm kinda thinking about using it on the renders.
(I know it's too much work)
Perhaps, I think Pw_toon can do 10% of the work, and the rest goes in hand, even.
I bought a graphic table Huion H580 ... I do not have Adobe Illustrator, but I'm checking it with Inkscape for rotoscoping / vectorization
The work does not bother me much ... Akvis Artwork has a "comic" function which promised an effect rotoscoping / vectorization etc ... But this is very far from what is done by hand.
Here some tutorials:
http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/tutorials/creative-lifestyle/create-scanner-darkly-effect/
http://designontherocks.blog.br/o-homem-duplo-a-scanner-darkly-uma-obra-prima-da-rotoscopia/
We cannot make true Disney or comic book-looking 2D pictures using 3D software without postwork, it's just impossible at the moment (and I know some may disagree, but I didn't want to write a giant post here explaining why we can't and what I've learned from a decade of experimentation).
Rotoscoping can obviously work, as it's basically drawing it yourself with the aid of a 3D model or real figure. You can also try setting all of your Ambient colors to 100% in order to get flat colors, and then outline and shade the image yourself. The easiest way is just to "fix" a toon-shaded render by eyedropping the shading color and just painting over any crooked edges or missed spots (and touch up the outlines by hand, which will probably be the most work).
But yes, in the end, it absolutely takes a human touch to turn a render into a toon.
You might use a cute little app called... Blender if I remember well ... which can produce images like the ones you see in this http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?164569-A-scifi-cartoon-NPR-(2D)-Scene-(blender-freestyle) thread.
Actually, with Freestyle you can do anything from toons to stylized architectural drawings (http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Release_Notes/2.67/FreeStyle). Freestyle is in trunk since 2.67 if I remember well and at least from 2.72 is supported also in Cycles.
None of the toon shaders do thick to thin line gradation very well, if at all, which helps to define lighting and makes individual elements stand out.
These are the very reasons that with me doing a comic which features toon figures, I chose NOT to render in toon. It just doesnt look good at all to me than just leaving it in it natural rendering style.
-MJ
@latego... Wow, that looks pretty damn good (the images from the first link)... reminds me of the style used by one of the artists who used to show up in Heavy Metal magazine back in the 80s.
I've seen the images from the second link before, but because the top one looks so much like a clip from an anime short, I figured there was a lot more to that... I have to look into this now, that is very interesting. Thanks.
Edited to add- Geez, I can't believe I forgot the guy's name- Jean Giraud (aka Moebius)... the look is not exactly the same but has a sort of similar feel (to me) to the style he used in some of the 80s heavy metal strips he did... (he, as many artists had variations to his style)
http://aphelis.net/french-illustrator-jean-giraud-aka-moebius-dies-1938-2012/
if you scroll down to the middle image, the one titled "star watcher" is along the lines of the style I mean.
BTW, I talking about the coloring style shown in the first link, not the scene or the figures... they are sorta disney/anime
Man, I really have to test this ... The only problem I can find is: import M4 / V4 / G1 / G2, in Blender (textured etc).
well,
Here's my first attempt at rotoscoping in Inkscape
I have not had time to set up keys, pen etc.
I bought a 580 huion
I also still need to learn how to use Inkscape, traces still very crooked
Here I used M3 rendered in PP2014 gd, and the result in Inkscape, or at least an attempt ...
I need a tutorial on hotkeys ink ...
Well we don't have much to go with but it looks like you're planning to start your comic off with a lot of exposition which is a novice mistake. You don't need to jump right in with a detailed explanation of the setting for your comic. Start the reader off with a situation they're already familiar with, introduce characters naturally and let the reader fill in the blanks themselves until you need to give them something important to the plot and try to implement that as naturally as possible.
You're doing a comic which is visual so that fills in a lot of the blanks right there. The reader can instantly tell the setting is science fiction or fantasy or historical. They can tell if the people involved are humans or aliens of fantasy creatures. They can tell if they're civilian or military. So you don't need to start your story telling people "this is a comic about the great Space Pirate Wars of 2235 and we're all on the Confederacy Patrol Ship Rumpleteaser searching for the great pirate Space Queen Titty McBoobs".
Just start your scene on the bridge of the ship, or in the lounge, or with the ship about to leave space dock. You don't need to tell them the year is 2235, they'll probably guess it's sometime in the future. If the exact date this takes place is relevant to the story you can introduce that information later in a way that seems natural.
You don't have to explain the technology either. People are familiar enough with science fiction that we all accept that spaceships have some form of artificial gravity, that they have some way to travel past light speeds, that they have some sorts of weapons and some sort of defences. You don't have to bog the reader down with details on how it works unless it's relevant to the story. Let the reader fill in the blacks themselves.
There's nothing more clumsy than technobable exposition
Captain: Ensign, fire the Protonplasma Wave Field Cannon.
Ensign: The Protonplasma Wave Field Cannon that works by creating a quantum entanglement between a proton and a charged gas plasma then emitting the photon at a phased wavelength countering the enemies shields so that a light speed blast of plasmic energy is able to bipass their shields and score direct energy damage on the hull of their ship? Aye Captain, firing the cannon now.
If you're doing a comic let the visuals tell as much of the story as possible and let the words tell as much as needed and let the reader connect the dots. Think of the Star Trek original series.
They didn't have to tell you how the warp engines worked. There was matter and antimatter and dilithium crystals and somehow they made the ship warp. They didn't have to tell you how the transporters worked or who invented them. Pull the sliders, people go sparkly, then people go to planet. They didn't have to tell you the history of the Federation and the Klingons. These are Klingons, they're a warrior culture, there is a cold war between them and the federation. What started the war, how long it had been going, none of that mattered. If somebody had written an episode where that information was crucial to the plot it would be introduced them. The viewers would just fill in the blanks themselves.
Needless exposition is always sloppy and amateurish. Give the readers what they need to understand the story you want to tell. If you've created a huge rich history to your universe and you want to share that with your reader then do it by spreading it out over many issues giving them what is needed for the plot of that issue and letting them piece together the entire continuity of your universe as new information comes. Don't Tolkien it.
JRR Tolkien created fabulous stories that were poorly told. He was so consumed with how clever his worlds were that he just had to share that with the readers which honestly resulted in a lot of pages being skipped and awkward exchanges.
"Sam, I'm thirsty," croaked Frodo.
"Here Mister Frodo, drink this, "said the moist eyed Sam offering his companion a wineskin. The wineskin of N'Thatalis who was son of Fedragor the Great, ruler of the Way Far Lands in the age of the Athelthian Empire. The wineskin crafted by the elves of in the Forest Eglithar from the Weir Beasts that skulked the Dark Moon Glade. Their hides cured in the time honoured festival of Megthathor honouring the fallen Elven King Megtha who died in the first age of Thorthma. Using the tannin of Igatheiar the hides were preserved with magic enchantments that would keep the beverages they contained ever fresh and cool and revitalize a weary traveller and slake his thirst.
Frodo lifted the skin to his lips and uncapped the heavy silver stopper crafted by the Dwarves of Gunthinol in the age of the Third Tribunal of Ekth, deep in their Dwarven city of Othlir where the heat of the earth would snuff the life of one not of the rock born. Searching always for the vein of Pure Heart, a silver so pure that its surface would never tarnish the Dwarves labours were exalted in song and story by even the Elves of Ninthalon who trusted Dwarves little and liked them less. But of the Guthinolish silver they would sing.
Kol'al len thela to mehn sa koor.
Fin I'era go me har to gentha me toor
O' legnaa to meeth setaa me to geh le t'fgar
N'vey fa tenla mo shi g'to mar.
Pressing the opening to his parched lips Frodo squeezed the skin. His mouth was flooded with the flavours and scents of F'lithian Wine. A wine made by the hill folk of Denethina, from grapes harvested late in the fall in the time honoured traditions handed down since the age of Haborin The Merry who was first amongst the Hill Folk to discover the Glenn of F'lithian where grew grapes so large and so sweet that three grapes were enough to sustain a man for an entire day's labour. Guarded and secret was the location of the Glenn and careful were the Hill Folk to never let so much as a seed nor stem of their vines leave the valley. The wine pressed by the dancing feet of maidens who twilled with song under the autumn moon, would bring warmth and dreams of home and loved ones to those who tasted it. Frodo took a long pull from the bag, relishing the warmth as it spread through him, easing the ache of his muscles and bringing a soft glow to his skin. He turned slowly his head towards his companion and his mouth gently broke into a smile.
"It's delicious, thank you, "said Frodo.
Ghastly, is that Tolkien passage real? That is....absurd, lol.
Wait... Is The Great Pirate Space Queen Titty McBoobs the younger sister of The Great Space Accountant Booby McBoobs?
No relation to The Great Space Used Car Salesman Stanley McBoobs I'm sure, but still... how many McBoobs are there in the space business...?
I think the best way to sum up my thoughts on exposition are 'show don't tell'. You could 'tell' people that goblins are evil, but show a goblin raiding party sacking a village and you've just 'shown' that they're evil, which has a lot more impact and stays with the reader longer.
I don't think I'd buy it just because he needs an ego check. To label himself legendary whether he is or not, is just downright tacky. But thanks for the heads up Cris :)
I do think he used contrast in colors, his background behind the circles is dark and the girls do stand out. I like the over exuberant smile of the one girl, you can tell she is quite pleased with herself. It's MEANT to be over the top.
He didn't label himself. Whoever wrote the blurb called him that since Will died in 2005. And he is called that by most of the comic book/strip industry because he earned the title. There was NO ONE like Will Eisner. Many of us learned our craft by reading his The Spirit comics and/or reading his books on sequential art. The awards at the San Diego Con are called the Eisner awards. I was lucky enough to be nominated for one once. It's a great honor and coveted for the award and the man it was named after. Believe me, this was not a man with ego...just great talent. :)
It is, perhaps, good parody to make a point, but it is certainly not a quotation from Tolkien. If the person posting it thinks it is, then their opinion of Tolkien's writing style is frankly worthless.
It is not real, but not far off from the truth.
A lot. The vast McBoobs' Intergalatic Topless Hamburger Bar franchise is quite literally a chain of family restaurants, so one of the primary duties of the HR Director (Lotta McBoobs) is overseeing the huge cloning department that cranks out more McBoobs to man the registers and fryers.
It is not real, but not far off from the truth.
Couldn't be further from the truth if it tried. Tolkien never used such overhyped rhetoric.
He didn't label himself. Whoever wrote the blurb called him that since Will died in 2005. And he is called that by most of the comic book/strip industry because he earned the title. There was NO ONE like Will Eisner. Many of us learned our craft by reading his The Spirit comics and/or reading his books on sequential art. The awards at the San Diego Con are called the Eisner awards. I was lucky enough to be nominated for one once. It's a great honor and coveted for the award and the man it was named after. Believe me, this was not a man with ego...just great talent. :)
Amen. I think it's fair to say that the two comic artists that anyone aspiring to work in the medium should make a point of studying are Eisner and Wally Wood.
Well, I returned the PW_Toon, and ordered the money back,
I could not get the expected results with it.
This type of disconnected information only can be enjoyed when you read the book (and others) several times. When I read it first time (12 years old, 30 years ago) I didn't read things like tedious prologues. With the years I read the trilogy, the hobbit, appendix and silmarillion several times with complete prologues, epilogue (printing data included %-P) and all this "extra, not requested" information was a treasure for me, I remained very obsessed for years with any scraps drop in every phrase. These books are not only the plot, but the world behind the plot. Of course, you can risk doing it with a book, but for a comic or visual media nope-never-never ever - no! no!
P.S: Yes, Tolkien was stingy with action scenes. Let's not speak about romance. Well, we had Peter Jackson to solve this (too much "solve" some times).
Couldn't be further from the truth if it tried. Tolkien never used such overhyped rhetoric.
Exactly. It is everything opposite. Very short expressions, without eccentric adornments. A lot of information, but not bad adornments. Very beauty forms in spanish translation.
One of the things I took away from Will Eisner books was the phase “sequential graphic storytelling”, in reference to comic books; I think that says it all.
Back a ways in this thread someone asked how a typical comic book (roughly 20 pages – average 6 panels / page) could be done on a 30-day schedule? Seems like a lot of work. Most published comic are not done by one individual, they’re done by a team, which includes an Editor, a Writer, a Penciler, an Inker, a Letterer, and others. Spread over all these artists, it isn’t hard see how this could easily be done in a month. When it comes to creating a 3D comic, everybody wants to work alone. Nobody can be good at everything; you’d have to be good at writing, posing, cameras, lights, characters, staging, backgrounds, post work, etc. Nobody’s that good, so that’s why we end with 3D comics that mediocre at best.
Makes sense that this could be the reason we see so many bad 3D comics.