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OSL is a real game changer...
here some things and thoughts which keep me bussy right now:
The transition between sclera and cornea does never look right (in my and all other examples which i saw...different constructions - different settings.. no way)..
i think the solution is to forget sss and use partial transparent materials instead....(inspired by glass eyes i started following test:
a correct cornea shape based on measurments... IOR 1.38 plus top coat 1.33 (water, tears.. to get more the liquid look...
a planar iris simulation to see exactly what happens... -> settings GLASS... Iris texture also in Glossines color... FULL reflection... refraction weight 0.3 IOR 1.55
A neutral as possible Iris texture whithout inbaked light... ( plus bump).. absolut planar for the moment
Here some screenshots:
The only thing which irritate me is the grey Fresnel ring ... everything else clearly improves.... but how to get rid of this strange grey ring?
and here a typical camera macroshot simulation with a spot light from the side...
,,
that's clearly a big improvment and what i was looking for...
Sorry - a very small render .. because this tests are not really productive on my weak labtop...
However: the whole refraction, bending of light.. is now there without a trick... and the iris reacts amazing on light.... cant wait to be finish with a real iris shape to test this
I get rid of the glossy ring at the edge of the corneas, by adding a glossy weight map. I make it such that the very edge of the cornea has no glossy strength
right... testing fresnel custom curve again right now.... using a custom fresnel (just lowering F90 does the trick too - but then i could not use base glossiness anymore.... maping base and custom curve on top coat... will come closest.. thx Jcade.
Now i just run into unexpected Iray behaviour again...
Happens that only to me because of my hardware? i had this bug with reflection and transparent materials allready some weeks ago in 4.9 beta... also then i fiddled with custom fresnel and refraction weight...
image one: everything normal
Image two: only changed the light position and the whole render messed up somehow....
Oh and here's my most recent eye test render
Do you mean cutout opacity by transparency, because using cutout opacity makes everything thinwalled witch messes with everything
No cutout - that happened in the simple experiment setup above.. which uses just a plane (iris) and a sphere (corona)...
I had to restart daz and saved the whole scene under a new name... and it works again now.e
About Fresnel... a little bit of this effect should be there.... if you map the whole affected area in Glossines then you lose reflections too which can be there (the ones which go from sclera on the corona..... one of the problems i try to solve is exactly this situation. Mapping opacity on the transition did look good but it stopped also reflections in this area...
So .. i use now.. only top coat and set Fresnel custom F90 to 0.5.... And i hope to solve the transition problem between sclera and corona with using refraction (weight) instead sss opacity(reflection are full there then).. while the iris part which grows into the sclera will be seen....
0.5 F90 -> Image
Can you take a screen grab of your current eye settings, esp the Sclera, so I can experiment? I'm just not able to achieve a reflective quality the eyes I'm looking for. Shouldn't matter what figure they are from, a surface is a surface but I've about exhausted my limited knowledge in trying to achieve that illusive quality I'm looking for.
i am in a experimental phase with Genesis3 eye settings right now - > J Cade has posted really great Genesis Eyes above.. so i think you should address him with this question.
Yes, I saw those but those are for the Cornea not the Sclera. Thank yoU!
Has someone suggestions for the guy skin?
At the moment it looks for me like this and I'm not really happy:
Its to much like a one layered wax figure without any brightness.
Looks like too much translucency to me for starters. Try lowering the translucency strength. You could try @JCade 's geoshell trick if that doesn't help, or use some translucency maps. See where that gets you. I imagine from there you'll want to increase your bump/normal strength (whichever map you've got) and maybe up the glossiness a bit.
Just go back 3 pages and there you can see my settings.... Guys only have a little bit a lower translucency then womens, use 0.35 - 0.4...
Here they are again:
Ok thanks this is with translucency at 0.25 and glossy up to 1:
Glossy doesn't seem to change much even with 2. With normal maps I have to test a bit around as the original has only a one color normal map.
@AndyGrimm: The settings suggested don't seem to work well with this skin. With the settings posted:
I'm not sure about the reason but my guess it its because the diffuse/color map doesn't have much skin details. I'm using the skin because I don't target a 100% realistic look rather real skin like with less impurities.
How high is the SSS setting. While not as true for Iray as it is in 3dl a high SSS can add to a plastic look. Sometimes that is helpful and sometimes not so much.
high translucency or/and high transmission distance (seems to be ok using my settings) and something with glossines color/specular - or then you use a colored light....
@mike9 post all your settings and we can tell you what you overlooked.
This quick render does NOT use any map (only bump is there).... my settings with one Single color for base, translucency AND transmitted color... standard
render settings, blue dom.... note how the glossiness color and specular should look... here you are off somehwere...
For my version its 0.30. Lowering seems to produce somewhat similar images like with lower translucency but a bit darker. The second image with Andy Grimm settings has 1.0.
Ok there was still a map set for glossy color from the original skin settings which explains also why the glossy didn't change when adjusting the values.
With the settings from your post and only difference I'm aware is the base color map (where you have a gray colored map which I didn't find):
Settings for this:
I think the skin is starting to look right now, but your lighting/environment might be throwing you off a bit since its quite heavily tinted red.
I dont have the guy, but I think it´s supposed to be a bit toony, so maybe there is not much skindetail in his maps and that might also be why you might not think its realistic enough (if that is what you´re going for).
Also, as discussed a few pages back (this thread is a beast) we really need a good map to drive microdetails in the skin in order to break up the specular...that will get rid of the plastic sheen.
Yes the environment has strong red parts in it. Thats mainly because it works well for what I use as background but its not necessary.
Here is how it looks with less red and two white lights:
My target is a bit toony. I tried to do it with a normal skin from michael but its difficult with all the impurities in the diffuse map. I don't know how to get rid of them without some image editing voodoo so I'm somewhat stuck with the guy skin.
My dream target for the skin is somewhere between this without the veins:
and this:
Depending on where I'm able to get.
@mike9
Well - to me it looks as you are now very close to the toony look of the two posted examples.... they differ about the same to each other as your render does to each of them...
1. Map the eyebrows in glossines weight and translucency color
2. Use SSS reflectance tint and transmitted color to finetune the skincolor
3. The pale map you see in my example setup was tought to show how to get out a very pale skin from a tanned orginal.... if your character goes to dark for your taste... just adust the base texture in photoshop (curve up )...
4. read about how to control glossiness with a map if you aim for best results... (some pages back in this thread)...
Oh boy.
Starting to get into eyes now. It´s a mess so far.
Never mind the maps, but why do I get that big shadow whenever I use an IOR larger than 1.33 ? I want to use atleast1.376 on the cornea, but then I get this. :/
Also, I get the highlight from the light, but not much in the form of those lush glassy reflections of my scene :/
I use pixar HDRI...and cornea bulge.
Here are my cornea settings and a photo of a real eye that has the strongest light in roughly the same position. I couldnt replicate that weird shadow in a photo no matter what I tried.
The real eye has so much more depth and body to it. It actually feel as tough it has a pool of water across the surface...the daz eye is like a plastic ball.
Sorry about my poor mobilephone camera :P
Kaboom
...
The Gensis 3 Eye has some weak and some confusing points...
1. The outerlayer is Moisture!
2. The cornea (mesh and morph) has a wrong shape -> i work since two weaks whenever i have time to make it right.. but with so less polygons it is a beast!
3. if you use the iris morph and maybe other eye product morphs... the cornea can get complete messed up.
so.. the best what you can do for correct reflections and refraction is to turn off moisture (opacity).... and remove the limit of the cornea bulb morph (100%)... the morph comes closest to the real shape of a cornea with 200 - 210%...
Use the eye and iris in the standard scale (no morphs also not the iris correction morph) use the cornea morph with 200% and -> set your sclera material to use more translucency and sss... and it should look way better.
And something which has also a weak shape .. the caruncle lacrima and eye lids there .. looks so wrong ..
j cade
I just grumbled about the caruncle lacrima or general about the inner eye "edge" shape.. and i saw that you had a way more realistic morph/shape posted .. is that custom modeling or from a morph product?
I have found when adding and IOR to a single thick mesh it has a tendency to magnify what is underneath maybe that is something to consider.
magnify / refraction.. thats something which i try to understand better myself while doing my cornea shape testserie....
using caustic a "lense" shape should magnifiy partial and i think it does depending on the angle of view... but at the same time refraction and reflection on the inner side on the lense -> result in this typical iris shape which we can see in macro photos from the sideview (eye).
while a deformed but intact sphere breaks the "light" perfectly in IRAY i am not sure about not closed (open - thin meshes) in Iray yet... this could be one of the cornea problems.. just some thoughts..
Image: eye macro which shows magnify/refraction and inner reflection.. (not a easy job for iray
The most recent image I posted is a full custom eye and it is fantastic but complete overkill, it's its own full object that replaces the gen3 eyes. Thats why, among other things, it has a back. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it. Right now its way to fiddly to be a proper product (and even if I get it non fiddly I wonder how wide its appeal would be)
Also I've finally got round to packaging up my basic iris morphs for gen3 male and female. Get 'em here
Me...it would save me having to make my own...eventually.
I like these eyes being composed from the glass ones but the earlier one before those (yellowish iris) looked to me to be cloudy in the aquaeous humour (and wow I remembered that from 5th grade).
I've noticed in Gen2 and Gen3 'stock' eyes the iris & pupil aren't round. I'm trying renders with iRay but because I have only 8GB RAM & Intel HD Graphics 3000 I must configure the render to optimize for memory and not speed so it's all CPU computed and always runs out of time at 2 hours about about 55% convergence and 800 iterations. I'm trying to recreate a reasonable looking photorealistic render before I move on to cartoon ones (I'd love to get renders that looks as good as the girl in the red glasses after I finish this attempt to learn the settings for realistic people).
And the cornea has no reflectance so it iris looks flat. Is that becausethe other 45% of the 'convergence' didn't converge the cornea's reflections? Also if I turn on flyfly, noise, and bloom filters it makes the texture weave pattern disappear from the sailor outfit and 1/2 of the eyebrows (thinner part on the outside of the eyes) disappear.
I also noticed, and this might be Intel driver problem (have the newest which is old) for Intel HD Graphics 3000, that after I do adjust the iRay settings the percentage calculating that it says it does while rendering stopped being draw and it said always 0%. Also, in the Content Library / Smart Content pane of listings the icons wouldn't draw until I moused over the pane of listings. To get it to do that I optimize for speed rather than memory and so the memory runs low so not a huge surprise there.