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well... nothing new.. but my tests could be of interests for those which try to create perfect eyes...
1. the shape of the cornea MUST be correct... here a experimental render serie, using modeled iris (subdiv 6 displacement)..
Image 1.. the cornea shape (radius, Iris -> cornea) is to high.... caustic -> the glowing (where the light leaves the cornea) falls out of the iris...
Image 2 the cornea is to flat -> the eye gets mostly dark.. the glowing is on the wrong space (on the pupil)...
Image 3 the cornea is just right -> glowing is on the right spot... on the iris, oposite to the light entrance...
in this serie: light, camera ortho front view and materials are always the same. the only what changed is the cornea shape on the upper eye...
So is the 3rd cornea possible to apply as morph to Genesis 3 corneas?
image one ... matching cornea (on a orginal g3 eye) to a real measurement scan.....
image two.. render orginal g3 eyes using the scan matched custom cornea morph....
better .. but because of the low polygon count and unlucky choice of polygons arangment for the cornea (circle to square?) a 100% match is not possible....
@nonesuch00 -> try the orginal cornea morph with 200 - 210%... this comes closest whitout a lot of fiddling...
however - it IS possible to come very close to a real eye.. without a concave iris (which looks great from the front but not from the sideview)..
Image sideview... FLAT but correct modeled iris and cornea on the upper eye
@j cade .... well... you are a PA allready... i would not hesistate to come up with a eye product in your case... i bought some eye products and i got always dissapointed, because they dont address the real problem. They include better textures some use custom UV's and opactiy masks (rings).. but none does really improve the underlying problems.
There is easy space for 2 - 3 great eye products now.. i think myself about too.. something must be done with the time we invest in such improvements
Me also, particularly if it came with appropriate maps, shaders, etc. The eyes are always the first thing I notice as a problem in most renders where everything else is right.
I have a general question.
Trying to take in all this great advice it just hit me. Some posts(most?) I just assume that poster is working on g3f(because its newest) or possibly g2f(since some have stated that in the post). I just realized some of you might work on custom stuff or with data that you have taken back into daz to work with, but is not available through the "official" products.
So, I was just woondering, can I continue trying to get the same results (except textures and high frequency detail maybe) without making custom modifications to meshes(except for dials). Or will daz/iray be limited in how far I can get that I should just go on making images and consider what I get with what I have learned here good enough(wich it really is for most work I´ll be doing).
Thanks again for all the hard work and everything you have tought me so far.
@Kaboom
i can speak just for myself: I dont buy a lot of stuff in the store, because my maingoal is to improve my 3D/CGI skills and getting up to date again (after a very long break from 3d modelling),,,, So that's why i often post experiments which show screenshoots in photoshop or mudbox.. or work with open source datas and so on.... but the results are hopefully/usally a improvment for the settings in DAZ Iray ubershader which work then also on standard actors...
A example is the eye above... working on custom setups, scanned datas, study macro shots, result in such a simple statement as "the standard cornea bulge morph" comes closest to the real shape of a cornea with 210% -> remove the limit of the morph....... (see your eye render and compear it with my cornea serie above.... the reason why your eye had just partial light is a to flat cornea)....
Need some other eyes on this. What's good, where does it fail... not looking for perfection, just convincing.
Thanks! You guys are all an inspiration.
the sclera is to bright/white... transition to the iris looks to hard because of this...
The left face/head side.. looks "washed out".. (sss - TMD)
eyebrows could use more bump
Other then that i like it.. is a good one.
Thanks Andy. So..his left or the left side of the picture? And I'm not entirely sure what the sss-TMD notation was supposed to mean. I know what you are referencing, not exactly what you are suggesting for the controls. If I recall correctly I have TMD/SMD at 2/.5, I vacillate between 2/.5 and 1/.25.
I can see how the sclera is too bright, that I can work with. Not sure what I can do with the eyebrows as I am horrible when it comes to fine detail work. I'd love to pull the bump map into PS and do something with it, but...just not really sure what to do with it and I fear I will just make a mess.
on the left face side there are brighter skin parts (close to the eye as example),,, this could be because the diffuse map is not the best for IRAY (inbaked skintone differences)...
SSS washing away details on the left face side (more light = more sss effect)... to see on the skull as example...
i think it is not a ideal base texture because the values which you use for SSS and TMD are reasonable...
@AndyGrimm thank you for the answer. It just this morning hit me that maybe there is a limit to what I can make Iray do.
I have made use of everything you guys have posted about your experiments.
This is where I am at now and I´m fairly happy...it´s just that little extra bang that I think maybe I need to do some work outside daz to achieve...maybe. Oh and I feel the iris is too big?! but didn´t want to mess with it based on earlier posts.
The eye uses j cade´s iris morphs
@Kaboom
It depends on your goals... my motivation is to break the limit or minimum learning and understanding why i cant do what i want with iray or the limitation of a G2/3 characters... i am more the experimental user type not the artist... for those with going on art projects.. i think that Genesis3 skins (the newer ones) are now finally ok out of the box and it is not worth to spend a lot of your time for improvements... grab a standard skin setting, some tips.. and move on to create art instead
..
I know allready that when i am finaly done with eyes - hairs will keep me bussy for minimum 6 months
Edit: Yes the Iris IS to big... a lot. (also the eye lid shapes - looks to me as you turned in the almond morphs to make them smaller).. this is one of the thngs which cries CGI usally.. but i think most DAZ customers prefer the better then real "cute" bambi look...
If i compear the best DAZ iray renders with the best photoreal examples in the net - the main difference is usally NOT the skin settings.. it is in the geometry (and microdetail maps).
I recognize the freckle pattern from another product but I'm not sure which. Your image already looks better the the character I'm trying to make though. I'm waiting for Zev0 Growing Up Skin Texture set to be released so I can see what a proper good generic skin texture set should look like for DAZ characters before trying to make my own.
The texture is Fred Winkler's (FWArt) Jake for Brodie 6. I like Fred's stuff, but it can be tough to work with in Iray. 3Delight is much more forgiving
I'm not experienced enough to know, it that iRay or 3D Delight? I agree with what Andy said except I'll add the skin is missing just that little but of translucent sheen that take it from an very accurate clay model look to a photographic look. On second thought, it's not that, it's the complete absense of hair that is throwing me, except for the eye brows. I bought the LAMH plugin and and going to try it this week but I'll have to wait for the Growing Up Skins to be sure.
that's jake - original maps... my standard settings...
I had to force gamma 1 to get him that pale but NO work on maps - no additional masks... and the HDRi is a free one which i use to render pale skins (and great eye reflections)...
masking eyebrows, a glossiness t shape map.. and he renders very great i think... but the paler parts in the skintone (around the eyes) are there too.. just not so good to see using gamma 1,
Jake is one of those characters where DAZ has trouble with gamma and the whole auto convertion to the IRAY ubershader is very strange....
by standard with Gamma 0 in the image editor it picks gamma 2.2... but the maps are very dark and saturated ...
It is way more easy to make the pale gamma 1 version perfect then the chocolate dark gamma 2.2 version...
Wow, the 1st pale gamma is amazing...the 2nd looks like the renderer is trying to emulate a camera film in a dim room and an ISO speed that is too low. I will look for your standard setting in this thread after seeing that.
Here another one with Jake... Kaboom inspired me to make a render "without that extra bang"...
This render is a result "out of of the box" . .. and i think it is the best what i can get out of the used products.
Jake.. using my skin shader settings (Gamma 1.. nothing changed.
Vking male hair -> toke me a long time to make them looking good... removed finally all base texture maps (i do this more and more with hairs)... in Iray hairs seems to render way better without
Clothes -> Viking for Genesis 2..
A tree with 3 instaces to build the background and giving more "deep"...
Jakes freckels have a to low contrast to the normal skin... with SSS and translucency they get washed out and disapear.... here i dont see another way then to adjust the original maps.
Extra bang: hmm... first what jumps in my eye.. he is to clean :-)...
then the usally eyebrow/glossines mask.. maybe a scar in the face...
Clothes could use one or two folds more...
this things add up.. while i think it is a nice render... the extra bang whould make it perfect.. but is it worth the time? hmm
Double posting!
Anybody have good settings for producing a good albino skin or know of any place i could get one, looking to get close to the look of nastya zhidkova, tried several methods but just dont seem to look correct, either has too much color or not enough and only come out looking some how wrong or maybe a way to produce the look with an existing texture map in photo editor.
Well your best bet would be to search for Celtic woman characters but they mostly add freckles and tan to them too. I guess all the people that make these skin textures live on a sunny beach and ain't used to seeing someone that is really pale or albino. In the pictures of the lady you mention some of them show that, although in some of those pictures, they are artificially using makeup and liight to make her look even whiter. The one I've seen in person look like a Celt with platinum blond hair.
It would be nice to have a G3Female & G3Male albino as a base character because they lend them self better to tinting and masks to create new characters but I haven't seen any. :-(
thats probably why the results didn't look right after looking at her facebook and vkontake page she has a little more color in her skin and hair than I thought, but I did notice the lack of pale skin vs the perfectly tanned ones, have yet to find any resource that has pale skin. well see how it comes out now. thanks.
Skin builder might work. There's a 'pale' option meant as a base for weird creatures.
I hope she has long sleeves and wide brimmed hat for outside.
Well - you could try to pm http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/969622/#Comment_969622
@AndyGrimm That is a good looking render and it´s really good to see what it looks like out-of-the-box, so I can compare my work to yours :)
You are right about the extra bang...I think a lot can be squeezed out of daz/iray, but if we strive for more realism we prob need to use a few external apps. At the very least postprocessing in Photoshop.
Two things I want to continue experimenting with for Daz is Maps and Skin detail. Oh and making a full body morph in zbrush...so far I mostly use zbrush to fix smaller things.
nastya zhidkova got mentioned some page back allready... the pale skin i posted there is very close to her look... i did then a quick render just for myself to see how it would render...
Also note that the images of her are massiviely photoshopped and most shots are slighty overexposured...and she wears a lot of makeup to get this look (there are also photos whitout makeup then she looks way more "normal" ...
i used the free Genesis Base texture and shifted all colors to a also very pale reference.... i would upload the texture for download here (is this ok forum moderation?) but the file is to large...