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@ermullens
here is a quick test I did with Brooklyn skin that is a fairly light skin. The only thing I did for this was change the gamma to 1 in the image editor. (go to surface tab and click on the map and choose image editor) The downside of this is that it washes out a lot of the detail that is present in the texture, I think.
You can see the unaltered settings on the body, she is quite pale to begin with.
Changing eyelashes and eyebrows and hair does a whole lot to sell the "albino" look.
I think this is a good start to get that look, but for added realism the shader can be pushed using Andys settings and I would even experiment with using a slightly cooler translucency color depending on what end result you are after. I would also do more with the eyes to bring out a bit more redness.
I´ll continue with this and post settings when I get home tonight.
and one thing that plays a huge part in the final look is light.
Here is the same image rendered with a completely different light
ofcourse the coloration can be fixed in post or with white point correction, but it´s something to be aware of.
Those are pretty good. I will try myself.
Yeah I didnt realize at the time that it might be makeup that made her that pale looking, after searching around I found a few of her social media pages that had her without the heavy makeup, and I have to say I kind of preferred the look without the makeup, not sure which of those is the natural, has quite a bit of light pink when tested with a color picker, might be bit more easily achieved, preferrence is on Josie 7 but can be g2f, v4 just findinf the right skin to match is what i was having problems finding or way to alter on in gimp.
I think the one in the forground is no makeup at all although a lot depends on the like in the room too so she may not being wearing makeup in the background picture either. A picture outdoors would be a bigger help because the outdoor light is more diffuse.
There will be a three Genesis 3 Growing Up Skin Texture Resource products soon that should help you create the texture although from the example they showed of it in the product thread you will still have to lighten that product too, but at least it will be unblemished and hairless set of textures you can create the proper hair follicle masks yourself from.
Signs of albinism are usually, but not always, apparent in a person's skin, hair and eye color. However, all people with the disorder experience vision problems.
Skin
Although the most recognizable form of albinism results in white hair and pinkish skin.. copy paste from mayoclinic
As to me it looks as this image is as close to her real skin (daylight, cloudy.. relatively color neutral light) as she wants to get seen in public - she may use white powder slightly all the time to hide some areas with to much transparency.
Ah, so you can see here in the outdoors, very normal looking. They need to invent a pair of comfortable and fashionable sunscreen googles for albinos to wear.
i am a Edgar Winter Fan (Winter Brothers, Edgar and Johny)... he did never wear contact lenses (both i think).... and said that he like to see the shock in peoples face when they look first time in his eyes
..Amazing muscians by the way, just in case somebody dont know them (RIP Johnny)
Sorry, my computer doesn´t want to render anything more tonight :( so I cant work on my albino-girl right now.
Something that I have been wondering about when rendering skin is how to best show the differences in coloration across different areas of the body.
For instance some parts have a bluish tone, others are redder and some are even green and yellow looking.
Classic example is forhead is generally slightly more yellow then rest of face due to bone being close to skinsurface, middle of face more red(cheeks and nose)
The temples often show blue veins etc etc. Forearms and legs can often be more reddish and chest can also show blueish tint from veins being present.
This break up in skin hue adds tremedously to realism I think.
So, what would be the best way to do this, paint on the skintexture, in the translucency map, in post?
That's a case of knowing your audience, unless they are medical doctors or forensics reconstruction specialists you use the base color and places where it varies in darkness or type of pigmentation - brown or black pigmentation for the hair and skin and red pigmentation (with a varying brown or black component as well) for the lips and genitalia for most people and then the near absense of pigment in albinos and many of the people originally native to 45th North latitute in Europe, commonly thought to be only redheads, but it occurs in many people with other hair colors too. For me and most people, the blue veins do not show up hardly at all until you lift weights for a while and get your body fat below a certain percentage except for a few well known veins. The forehead being yellow, which I've never noticed myself a yellow complexion as being restricted to the forehead, you have that complexion or you don't, is a reflection of ambient indoor incandesecent light and tanning due to more sun exposure and not bone. If you look at the HD characters from DAZ you'll notice rather than lending more realism to the character they often lend a caricature like exaggeration to the character so that's good if you want that effect, not so good otherwise. That kind of HD 'muscle cut' definition is usually acheived by having very low body fat and purposely dehydrating one's self.
Most of this differences would go in the translucency map. Thats how i do it... when i have a skin with not much in baked SSS... tha't would be the ideal case .
what i come up with so far it seems light enough, hdr only for lighting, very light pink for translucency at .45 , ss may not be completely correct taken off the photo transmitted distance of 2 scattering distance of .1 ss amount .25 all other setting are from what i have read in this thread PBR S/G glossiness is fairly low at .3 spec at 51,51,51, 1.41 refrac, fresnal top coat at .3 color white just 120 iterations,
Cute, but to my eye and eyes vary, I see too much blue tinge in the skin. That could be the result of the patio and bannister's strong rust color though. If you changed the the bannister and patio to a limestone colors (basically a blueish grey color like concrete) it will contrast with the pinks of your model rather than subdue them (which is causing the seeming blue tinge - I think it's an optical illusion). If that didn't work, I'd change the overcast tinge it's skin to a very light cream. I'm not sure how to dothe tinge change to cream though, I think Andy Grimm would though. I don't think it's needed, it looks like a limestone colored bannister and pation would do the trick.
Geometrically and hairwise it's a beautiful likeness.
Hm, I have another question.
SSS maps included are often greyscale, which I interpret as meaning they should be used as distribution maps for translucency. White is max translucency, black is zero...correct?
But those maps are often plugged into "translucency color" channel by default. Shouldn´t they be in "translucency weight"?
If they are in color-channel wont they make whatever translucency color you choose more grey?
Long standing issue (and pet peeve of mine). If it is greyscale it is a strength map and should not be loaded into the color slot for any channel.
I seem to recall that there is an issue with SSS not liking color maps. A grayscale would be the only way to effect SSS colors.. assuming it will work with any map at all.
As I thought then.
"Translucency color" takes color maps fine. Greyscale seem to work fine as distribution/strength map in "weight" channel.
Great information Andy,
I agree with you that the eyes are Daz's greatest weakness at the moment, including the carncule. I am still very new as a PA (only one product coming out soon), but it seems like a worthwhile undertaking to try to create more realistic eyes. Thanks for all your research into this thus far.
-The Philosopher
SSS maps... they dont make sense in Iray.. that's because TC is multiplied with Translucency color (color map goes here) ... and there is only one TC (RGB) channel...
mapping transcluency weight (greyscale, linear map) would be the best idea to control the effect (translucency AND SSS as a whole. But this did not work well in the Beta 4.9 .. and i did not test all the map slots again in the public release. So i cant say if this got improved or not.
General there is a missunderstanding what kind of PBR maps Iray can handle. ( some Iray aka PBR products which are made from substance painter or any other "Metalicty" workflow solution. include maps which are just a "Bonus" for other render engines.
@PA_ThePhilosopher
welcome... you will run in some limitations using the Genesis3 eye... and Geocraft has other disadvantages...
But here a list what i would do:
1. correct the arrangment of the polygons for the cornea! it must be also a SPHERE... if you look on my Genesis example compeared with a stand alone (correct) shape.. it is to see that caustic gots affected by the transition from the circle to the square polygons,,the angle to the lense (horizontal line) is about 38degree. (here is where the genesis eye fails)
2. This transition is also exactly on the "ring" around the iris.. which should be a refraction map! -> this creates the real transition ring around the iris... which comes from the iris under the sclera (darker color) and the transition of the leather skin (sclera) to the transparent cornea.. this ring is about 1.5mm... i made a test setup and it works well... looking from the side this ring gets "white" and diffuse.. looking from the front it is the dark ring ( i used 2 rings, one on the sclera one on the cornea.. and a opactiy ring in addition on the sclera... a lot of trial and error
3. it would be great to have real measurement as standard .. aka... a iris is about 11mm - 12mm (including the ring!)....in Genesis 3 we have 12.5mm PLUS the ring which most paint on the sclera around the iris which results then in a 14 - 15mm iris which is larger then the radius of the cornea...
4. moisture over sclera and cornea slows down IRAY extrem.. and it does not improve the eye... this polygons could be used to model better tears...(upper eye lid)... and hide the rest.
5. displacement maps for the iris ... 3 types (study iris macro photos and you can see that there are "roughly" 3 types...
That would be my wishlist for a eye product
That's correct.
SSS maps are used as masks to prevent skin features like eyebrows, body hair, moles, etc. receiving the Translucency Color, so they do make sense. What doesn't make much sense is mostly the greyscale, a simple black & white map would IMO do the job best.
A better question would be if an Iray Uber shader parameter is really "mapable" in Iray, or if it's just a leftover from the basic UI layout for the 3Delight shader. Like the texture slot on the "Tansmitted Color" parameter. A texture just doesn't work in this place.
Not sure what you mean with "TC", but both the "Translucency Color" and "Transmitted Color" parameters offer three RGB color channels: Red, Green and Blue. Only the "SSS Amount" parameter works only in greyscale, so that one comes in a slider fashion.
here is another idea in addition of my wishlist above... it is also tested and works great.. (actually i played some days with coming up with a unique eye setup as a product myself.. but rejected this plan as i had to wait 6 hours just to see one of my ideas.. eye products are stuff for PA's with a lot of GPU power
.
Idea for effect eyes:
I made the pupil very large (same as the iris)... then painted a partial glow effect mapped as emissive color on the pupil.... set the iris material to be about 0.2 - 0.3 refractive.. and now just turn the pupil and there is full control on where the eye glows... looks cool and some crazy effects are possible for phantasy eyes.
@arnold SSS/Translucency masking is not really the same as a SSS map.. but we talk about the same as usally.
I painted SSS maps for renderman as example.. 3D delight is using the same method..those maps dont make sense in IRAY.
I guess the SSS maps you mean are similar to those of my screenshot below, the SS map from the Genesis 2 Base Female (.\Runtime\Textures\DAZ\Characters\Genesis2\BaseFemale\V5BreeLimbsSS.jpg). Sense or not, in Iray they do work, too. Having one in the "Translucency Color" texture slot will tint the "Base Color" by the colors used on that texture map.
What doesn't work on the other hand are the "TL" greyscale texture maps (.\Runtime\Textures\DAZ\Characters\Genesis2\BaseFemale\V5BreeLimbsTL.jpg) when put into a "Translucency Weight" texture slot. You can set the weight as much as you want, but it seems a greyscale map there will block any translucency, and the Base Color will stay as it is.
You could try and make that experiment yourself:
load the Genesis 2 Base Female, change to the "Surfaces" tab and remove the Diffuse texture maps from the "Base Color" texture slots. That way you'll get a plain white G2F. Then set the "Translucency Color" to plain white, too, but let the SS textures stay in place, and set "Translucency Weight" to 0.90.
On "Volume" set "Thin Walled" to "On", since we only want to check how translucency will work out and don't want a transmitted color to interfere. In an Aux Viewport, set the Draw Style Option to NVIDIA Iray. The render preview will give you... a plain white G2F. If you now guess, that something's wrong, you're right. Something on the shader setup prevents the Translucency Color from tinting the Base Color. Now let's look for the perpetrator.
Remove the "TL" greyscale textures from the "Translucency Weight" texture slots. If your preview is still running on NVIDIA Iray, your plain white G2F will change to an orangish one, and it will show features like eyebrows, etc. All will be a bit blurry though, but nevertheless visible.
This little experiment showed me that a texture put into the "Translucency Weight" texture slot doesn't do any good, it blocks the Translucency Color, be it plain color or a texture, from coming into effect.
unbiased SSS maps in renderman can drive different parameters from SSS such as offset as example (distance.. where the the scatters begins).... now there are tons of nodes for SSS in renderman where a grey scale map can drive the strentgh of "anything" SSS related...... 3d delight is a renderman clone and does the same...
It also gets mixed with Albedo and SSS Diffuse (which are then "strange" colored maps such as your example above).... however SSS in renderman is really complex and not our topic.. i just try to explain that we can NOT drive the strength of any SSS paramter using maps in IRAY ubershader... and that's why greyscale SSS maps dosent make sense in Iray...
All what we can do in theroy is MASKING the effect in translucency weight (if this slot hopefully works now 100% - which you saying it still does not work correct) and/OR in translucency color - because as we know.. TMC get's muliplied with Translucency Color and a ZERO (Black means) no light...
I hoped it is corrected (map in translucency weight) - so the same bugs as in the beta are still there?.. hmm
I never worked with Renderman, and the maps I know are only those which the people use on DAZ's 3Delight renderer.
That's correct, Andy. In Iray Subsurface Scattering calculations take place in the "Volume" properties component of the shader which parameters aren't mapable at all, due to information I got from an NVIDIA employee. Determining where scattering begins and ends by a texture map would be nice, but that would be (quote-unquote) "to be impractical for being part of everyday rendering".
The "SSS" designation of the maps currently used on the Translucency Color texture slots is a bit misleading, since they don't have a direct impact on Subsurface Scattering (although you need a material to be translucent to have Subsurface Scattering happening). All they do is additionally darken the color set in the Translucency Color parameter and/or mask out parts where translucence shouldn't have an impact. A better fitting one could be "TM" (Translucency Mask) or "TCM" (Translucency Color Map)... if it would be one.
Bug or feature, that depends on if a parameter for an Iray material is considered to be mapable in MDL. I couldn't find so far a hint in the documentation if a weight parameter is supposed to be driven by a greyscale map in the first place. Might be that the weight parameter is set for a material surface as a whole rather than on a "per pixel base". And though isn't thought to use a texture map, just like the "Transmitted Color" parameter.
Controlling translucency by texture map doesn't work on "Translucency Weight", but it does on "Translucency Color" as either a greyscale or black&white mask or a full color texture map. Better than nothing I'd say.
Andy,
Perhaps the eyes can be improved without having to alter any geometry.
The goal, it seems, is to produce a softer transition between the sclera and iris, which I think can be done using an oppacity map.
Here is something I put together last night using the base G3F model (see attachment). The only thing I altered was the face and eye maps. Let me know what you think;
So basically what's being said here is to ignore the SSS parameters settings (SSS Amount and SSS Direction... any others??) unless you want to mask what's going on under the Translucency weight paremter (i.e. taking the glare off of eyebrows, facial hair, ect..)???
Well, I can't speak to the technical things but the model looks very good except the irises are too deep a blue, unless they are wearing blue contact lenses. The irises themselves look one or maybe two millimeters too big in total diameter.
I hope my attempt at realism is as good as yours when I get that far.