Sales - Not everyone uses Genesis 9 characters!!!!
martin36
Posts: 175
in The Commons
I was buying from time to time but now it looks like Daz is promoting mostly G9 characters. I don't use them, I don't use even G8.1 as I have older daz studio version because newer won't work for my addons.Please do some black friday deals for older generation.
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Maybe the grabbag items?
https://www.daz3d.com/thankful-for-daz-plus-savings#index=0&order=popular^1&filtered=1
If anything I expect the deals to get better for folks using older generations.
Selecting all the older generations up to Genesis 8, returns 25544 products as a result.
Yes I know that stuff for older generation still exist but not much new stuff is for G8, In last few days there was nice clothes and hairs available only for G9. Even today there is two bundles in great price but only for G9 :(
ok you mean they should not stop creating new products for older generations - got it, i thought you meant the black friday bargains lol.
It's not cost effective for either DAZ3D or the content creators that make a living doing this to continue making content for older generations for very long after the release of a new figure. There are otehr places you can shop that might try to change that, though.
That's just the way it is and way it will be for the forseeable future.
Daz sells content, and as Daywalker Designs has already mentioned the sales are what drives the content that's created. Content creators are generally doing this for a living and need to put a roof over their head so they'll create for the latest figure.
Good news is the G8 and older stuff now typically see more discounts. Also, you might want to try your hand at a program like Blender to convert clothing items to the figure you use. I still use Genesis 3, but I use updated shaders and I have purchased many G8 clothing items and converted them to G3.
You could investigate Marvelous Designer, and buy/make whatever you wanted, and adapt it to any figure you wanted. Look in the MD thread here to see the amazing things our own people have made.
Correct, and if a product for older generations is made that is probably because it was a product that was close to being done and moved on to somehting else and they wanted to finish it off or they don't do this for a living and do it as a side gig, but a lot of us do it for a living and we have to go with whatever is selling the best and that is typically the newest generations.
As far as people jumping on the new fig goes, it really is a double edge blade. Yes, some will go for it from the start, but others will move because content is made only for the new fig from a point forward... content they actually want.
With G9 offering nothing over G8 (on the contrary, for some like me, it's a downgrade in certain areas), I can see G8/8.1 stuff selling for a looong time still on par with G9 items.
And this comes from someone who already has quite a bit of G9 content... which I would have bought for G8, given the choice.
They're the latest thing! Of course they enjoy some promotion now. But everything has its day in the sun. No worries! There's always another sale
But you are SUPPOSED to use G9 now... don't stand in the way of technical advances...
Five years of G8 products in the store. A lot of them will be new to someone.
...yes like me. As some feel about G9 I felt the same about G8 as the min difference was in the facial morphs for expressions. I rarely do portraits so I had a difficult time justifying the expense of retooling for a new generation. I picked up a few of the more "interesting" G8 characters (other than the standard Daz ones) but that was it. Now with about 5 years of inventory (more than twice any previous Genesis generation) and more being heavily discounted (including merchant and morph resource content) purchasing G8 content has become more attractive.
Another factor that held me back was that most G8 clothing was dForce dynamic and I older tech on which sims would take a long time to run. However. updating to 4.21 seems to have helped in that department as there is a noticeable reduction in sim time.
I see plenty of old stuff in the Black Friday sales. How old are you looking for?
Of course you are. Otherwise there would be no incentive to buy compete new wardrobes, hair and add-ons for a character that is little different to the preceding one.
At least with the G3 to G8 transition, there were many products for a long time that were made compatible with both G3 and G8. Ofcourse, it helped that G8 was more of a minor tweak to G3 than really an entirely new figure, like G9 was. The differences between G8 and G8.1 were even smaller, and Daz definitely shot themselves in the foot by not making G8.1 assets natively compatible to G8. Users can easily make them compatible, but that simply shouldn't have been necessary. And the solution would've been simple: assets created on the G8.1 base that were unaffected by the differences between G8 and G8.1 should've been automatically saved as G8 assets instead of G8.1 assets. Which means: basically all clothes and props not rigged to the face, all poses except expressions, and all morphs not affecting the facial structure. Basically: about 90% of all G8.1 products should've been saved as G8 products, and they would've still functioned identical on G8.1 as they do now, but would've been more convenient and interesting for use by people still using G8.
G9 on the other hand is radically different from G8 and G3. I'm sure assets can be converted from G9 to G8 or G3, but it's slightly less straightforward. And because they are very different figures, we see less of these dual G8/G9 products than we saw dual G8/G3, or even G3/G2 products. G8/G9 dual products simply do take more time and effort to create than G3/G8 dual products. And time IS money for a creator. Postponing a new product for one or more weeks can mean failing a mortgage or not having the funds to buy someone a christmas present.
Dual products do make a transition from one generation to the next easier. It means a customer who sees a new product will not only consider it for his or her very limited collection of new figures, but also for his or her extended collection of older figures. And once the collection of assets for the new figure grows through these dual products, a customer who's reluctant to move to the new generation may become more inclined to invest in the new figure, because there is already that collection of assets that won't be affected by such a transition.
It's up to PAs to decide what to make, and that decision is based more on what the PA believes will provide more income.
With that said, very attractive discounts are available year-round on items for G3, G8 and G8.1. Daz's promotions may appear clumsy, but there are lots of deals on older items.
With G9 out, the future sales potential for NEW G8 products is on a downward curve....so from a business perspective PA's would naturally follow the curve that will be growing in sales over the next few years..and that would be G9.
Thats just how business works.
I can understand PAs making stuff for the newer generation if it is easier or feel more sales will come from that but I don't understand why Daz the company doesn't release for free autofit clones or a script to make clothes, hairs, shoes, etc work for at least the last two generations. I would jump on gen 9, because I really like the expressions and clothes being put out for it, but I like my current gen 8/8.1 figures more. If there was a way to upgrade them to gen 9, paid or free, that didn't require me spending hours doing it manually or opening different programs to do it I'd be all for gen 9. So far nothing out has convinced me, a general user (not making clothes, not making sculpts, etc) Gen9 is worth the 'upgrade' at this point. At this rate I guess I'll be waiting for Gen 10 (and hope it is a bigger upgrade than just 16k skin and ultra hd nipples
) or until some utilities come out to make moving my gen8 characters to 9 easier.
I don't know if DAZland will notice any effect, but making "good deals" depending on buying new items, with the new items being G9 exclusive, will lead to some people ignoring these sales, when they have no interest in using G9. For me personally the lack of interest in such "buy that new item to get 10% more off older stuff..." had already started with G8.1, due to the lack of full compatibility with the generation I use.
I understand that it's in DAZland's and many PA's interest to invent a market for adaption or re-release for products we already have for previous Generations. But as DAZland and PAs have their finances as their main interest, so it is for some of their customers, too. For me at least the aspect "is this little change from G8/.1 to G9 worth paying for stuff that I already own? Or for stuff to make stuff I already own to work with a Generation offering only a marginal improvement to the figures I own, considering my needs?" is quite important due to limited funds for a hobby.
I'm not sure what you mean when you ask for Free Autofit clones; are you asking to be able to use existing content with the new figure (which DAZ has always done since Genesis 1 came out), or taking content from G9 to use on previous generations (which has always been something PAs/vendors here have done). Sure, they aren't always as accurate as what the community can do, but they do include them.
But... the technology already LETS you autofit older stuff. I've autofit clothes and hair from down to Genesis 3 (I have earlier stuff uninstalled, generally), and it's been reasonably easy. The only problems are some of the Usual Suspects, like rigid outfits and shoes. (Although I did fit a Genesis 8 armor pretty well with only a bit of elbow grease).
I mean, Daz pretty much... DID that. They made a bunch of design decisions with Genesis 9 to aid in fitting stuff across figures and generations, and added a slew of starter clones and templates to enhance autofitting.
So, mission accomplished?
Us PAs had to make our first Genesis 9 promotional renders with little to no Genesis 9 content, so we mainly used G3/G8 stuff (and sometimes earlier!)
I mean, there's zero cost to try out Genesis 9 as it is, so you can find out for yourself. And it comes with 4 male/4 female skins, even, plus a decent variety of builds/proportions to start with. Try out some hairs and outfits (note on hairs: some dForce hairs have problems, other hairs I suggest not using a template and just going Autofit: template none)
Unless customers don't buy into G9. It is not a given that G9 will be widely adopted by customers. G8 is the new Victoria 4, and G9 has to overcome that. If customers do not buy G9 as much, then G8 will stay viable to PAs for years to come. It isn't about the latest thing, it is which is the popular thing. This has been proven time and time again, like New Coke, or a newly hyped video game sequel being vastly less popular than the original. The new Battlefield has less active players than the previous one, which is certainly not what the developers wanted. But it doesn't matter what they want, the customers made their choice.
That is how business works. Genesis 9 still has to prove itself to a lot of customers, no matter how much Daz wants to force it on them. Maybe in time it will...but maybe it wont. As we nosedive into recession, customers may be buying less. Jumping into a new generation model requires a lot more investment, since you need so many things you already bought once before, plus converters and so on.
It is a lot cheaper to stay on G8 and buy new stuff for it from the PAs who support it.
And that is exactly why I mentioned the dual generation products, like the ones we had for G3/G8 and earlier for G2/G3. Those products do make it easier for customers to eventually transition to a new generation. They might not adapt to the new figure at launch, but, if their hardware allows for it, they'll probably start picking up on it within a few months, because their library allows for it, they already have some useful stuff.
Without the dual generation products, if they don't adapt now, then they probably won't adapt in a few months either. They won't invest in a library for the new generation, and instead of any reluctance slowly falling, reluctance will only increase. They already have experience getting started on a new figure, and already know how much that is going to cost. And the missed products for the new figure will only keep piling up, as will the cost of adapting.
I mean at the moment I see a lot of cool G9 hair and clothes that are exclusive to that generation. I don't expect the PAs to make everything compatible with previous generations but I think DAZ should be stepping in to make a utility to makes G9 exclusive items backward compatible for a gen or two (G8/G8.1) like they do for previous gen stuff on G9 models.
I want new stuff to fit OLDER generations- at least one, preferablly two with Daz providing autofits. I don't expect the PAs to do it- I imagine they have enough to do with creating stuff. But I think, especially with G9 being so new, DAZ putting out utilties/clones/something to make it easy for G8/8.1 and maybe even g3 to use g9 items is nearly as important as G9 being able to use the older stuff. But that's just me and why I haven't purchased anything g9 exclusive and probably won't until there is an easy way to convert my g8/g8.1 characters to g9. Now that there is skin convertor I'm hoping a body/face shape convertor comes sooner rather than later.
Customers have already bought into it.... I already have more than a few G9 products in the store and G9 sales are very comparable to G8.
So it has proven itself
This whole G9 won't sell debate is rather silly IMHO. I didn't buy any G8 content for about a year after it was released. I had enough G3 stuff and I spent my budget on other things like props or shaders. Eventually I was attracted by some of the less conventional looking characters so started to migrate to G8F (G8M followed a long time later). Now I have about as much G8 content as I did for V4 which kept me happy for years. I have so much that I don't need more but if stuff for G8 continues to appear in the store, I will probably buy some of it. I won't be buying G9 content because I can't afford to start over with all the morph packs, skins, etc., etc. So I will bide my time. I don't care whether I am typical of other customers or not - that's just my preference. The more G9 dominates the store, the less I will spend and that's fine by me - I don't expect DAZ to throw up their hands and do a U-Turn.
My hope and expectation is that DS5 will usher in some advanced technology which will require the introduction of new figures to take advantage of that technology. So the more I save now, the better placed I will be to buy into that new generation. I hope others continue to buy G9 so that DAZ can afford to develop towards that advanced technology I'm hoping for.