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Hardly, given that Genesis 8/8.1 has had a fairly long run as content creation cycles go. Yes, DAZ3D is highly focused on content for the newest figure, but that's how they have always been. As others have said, there are other stores that still have vendors that are making and selling content for older versions of Genesis, and even the occasional bit for Victoria 4.
Okay, but...who is the "rah rah G9 is great" camp that needs to come to an understanding about this? All I've ever seen G9 users say about it in any thread is, "I like using this figure and here's why," and we're pretty roundly outnumbered by people who not only don't like it, but think it's an objectively bad figure and an outright failure on Daz's part. Every thread about G9 inevitably consists of people explaining in detail why they hate it and refuse to use it. I'm exclusively a G9 user and my impression is that the figure is so unpopular that the Daz marketplace will probably be the only store to reliably buy G9 items from, since they have the platform to market them widely from. Most of my favorite vendors are pretty clearly in no rush to move to G9, if they plan to at all, and I've started making my own content because I plan to stick with it and I don't expect the unified figure to be a thing in future generations (in which case this will be the last one I invest in).
I'm pretty sure no one thinks it's bad to stick with 8/8.1, misunderstands why anyone would want to, or thinks the complaints about G9 are wildly unreasonable. In fact, it seems to be so taken for granted that G9 is a failure that just releasing products for it is regularly characterized as forcing it on people or driving them away from buying.
Quite a few posts, including some vendors, even in this thread. People have been pointing out the issues for awhile, simple things like nonexistant belly buttons and nipples in the base rez mesh, and really atrocious bends. People , including certain vendors, keep acting like it's a nothing burger and wonder why people are complaining. Or people that say keep saying G8 had grown long in the tooth and it was time for a new generation (which I agree with in principle, just not in the final product we got).
So it seems to be a problem that people like G9 at all, or that they don't consider those issues dealbreakers.
Up until this point, Daz's characters were above all else as far as functional figures go, and much much cheaper than turbosquid's offerings, but while this is well-intentioned for content creators; it eventually ends up leaving the non-PA behind several generations with a figure that's comparable to V4 instead of the current 8/8.1 generation as far as anatomical accuracy is concerned!
What would help is if Daz themselves produced an update via G9 essentials, with at least an equivalent base JCM setup as G8/8.1, that way improvements from 3rd party PAs can continue, but earlier, and with much more frequency as they'll have a stronger and more focused base to work with!
Because as it stands, (from what I've read, here) PAs are having a tough time with it as it is... So the end user ends up with 'Ole, noodle knees until maybe a year or so, until KHImage can fix G9's bends, at least for me that is, as I heavily relied on their anatomically accurate corrective/JCM morphs ever since Genesis 2!
I don't get the G8.1 enthusiasts
it had such a short run, why bother
We all sometimes can be bitter when we don't have extra cash to splurge. But then do we have to splurge if we have the extra cash? No, we don't have to. Just buy whatever useful.
I like G9 for portrait renders and that's it, so buying the character essentials and a few characters that I really like is enough. For full length shots with limbs exposed, no thanks, I will stick to G8 & G8.1.
It is inevitable that G8 & G8.1 will be phased out, you can say they are abandoned in that sense. Let's look forward to a G10 that will make everyone more than happy to willingly abandon all previous generation figures altogether
We had such high hopes for the next generation, 'nobody' was expecting a new generation to be released before DS 5, and there they were, out of the blue 'everybody' (involved) praising how good/better G9 is, except that it didn't deliver any of the improvements were were hoping for and from the users point of view it didn't give us anything that couldn't be done with G8/G8.1, not to mention the terrible torso mesh.
Why would DS 5 make the older stuff unusable?
In theory, full number version changes tend to break scripts that call on deprecated resources... It isn't a certainty but likely. An example was the whole ghost light issue; the origanal funtionality was based on a hack so when Nvidia patched the problen, they changed the nature of how ghost lights worked and broke the hack.
All I can say is that I do not really like working with G9. That's 100% personal taste but that's just the way it is. So as the store is more and more becoming G9, I am buying less and less. But I don't mind.
I have a truckload of G8/8.1 stuff and there is constantly stuff coming in. Some here, more at Rendo and other stores. In fact I purchased my current go-to character at RenderHub and use some morphs on it I got from Rendo, together with stuff from my library. And I still have lots of products sitting in my library which I did not even have time to fully employ.
But I don't do much studio recently anyhow as I am exploring AI and have a lot of fun with it. DAZ should better focus in helping me to get output fast by bringing out studio 5 and embracing current hardware and/or cloud options. What use is a library worth thousands of characters, environments and props when I can only render out 1-2 images a day on my Mac.
Hardly see, that G8/G8.1 is abandoned in Daz 3D store. Just a few new releases for Genesis 8 / Genesis 8.1:
https://www.daz3d.com/ps-kei-hair-for-genesis-8-and-9
https://www.daz3d.com/dance-rhythmic-for-genesis-9-81-and-8
https://www.daz3d.com/hl-pd-550-sneakers-for-genesis-9-8-and-81
https://www.daz3d.com/madam-wickd-for-genesis-81-female
https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-bat-lady-outfit-for-genesis9-9-and81-females
and the list just could go on.
...my thought as well. I can still work with Aiko3 (which I started with using Daz 1.8) in 4.21 with zero issues, even rendering in Iray.
Oh, and it's not that I hate G9, (in a way I sort of like the return to the Androgynous base figure as it makes doing more "petite" female and teen characters easier) It's just that first, I no longer can afford to retool for yet another new generation to make it as useful and versatile as what I already have invested in, and second, there have been more compatibility than with other generations which I see as a limitation for the process ofcharacter design I use.
May it happen soon. Meanwhile, G8 has tons of content covering almost every base multiple times. The frustration is that I never imagined G9 would be released with Victoria 2 bends. If they'd gotten that right, the shoulder-torso fail would've been acceptable to me.
Victoria and Freja 9's, and to a lesser degree Michael 9's, facial realism is a needed improvement over the most photorealistic G8/8.1 characters; (the other Core Figures look like A minus grade G8s). The artist(s) that worked on the former has done a phenomenal job, and it's evident that PAs have been unable to attain that level yet (exception: hats off to Herschel Hoffmeyer, though stylized pron milf isn't my scene). Too bad about the G9 bodies, although Freja 9's body looks good for muscles. The faces/eyes make me want to switch, but I'll have to wait until I can get a body close to what I like that has good JCMs (CBSs).
I would, but as you say, it would have to be a significant improvement.
Heh-heh, remember when Daz introduced G9 as "jaw dropping"?
Yeah right, the only thing jaw dropping was the price jump. 60 bucks for the base Vicky9? Yikes.
I'm probably just gonna wait and see what Genesis 10 eventually brings. I skipped G3, I can skip G9.
Please discuss the topic, rather than indulging in generalisations about people who take a different view of the topic.
I've been with DAZ since Genesis 2, and my DIM lists 10k products, so I'm heavily invested.
I'm not buying G9. The new content for G9 is not better than the old content I already have, and for the most part is endless variations of the same old ideas. I cannot see any point in investing in G9 if the PA content looks like G2. Or G3. Or not even that good, and selling at prices I can no longer afford, especially as I can buy a month of Midjourney for 1.5 new G9 items.
As far as I am concerned the DAZ store is no longer a thing. I'm not buying. That can't be good for PAs. Another thing: the current "sales" strategy means that the price of an item is a D20 dice throw, which means there is no longer any concept of innate value. The same item can be anywhere from $4 to $15 seemingly at random. As a customer I am often left feeling like an idiot, so that can't be good either.
Take note DAZ ...
And when G10 comes out G9 will share G8's status.
So, the bottom line is, g8 is still alive and well. G9 is progressing. We shall see what we shall see.
Even if Genesis 8 had 10 years of content, there will still be somebody who would like more.
But Genesis 9 is the new product, it suffers from a lack of content that does not help convince users to choose it.
Although I speculated earlier about DS5 and a new generation of human figures, that is not the only reason I am not buying G9. In the past I have been deliberately slow on the uptake of new generations - mainly because prices tend to fall and sales become more frequent, the furtther into the life-cycle of a generation we get. However, with G9, I do not intend to buy anything because I do not see any reason to. It might be better for PAs to work with but G9 offers me no advantages and a huge potential cost.
So now, DAZ are making most sales conditional on buying newly released (mainly G9) products. I'm not falling for that (and never have) so the longer they continue with that policy, the more I save towards the new product line which *might* emerge after the release of DS5. I'm on a very limited budget as it is but this is my only hobby and DAZ gets the lion's share of my available spending money. I suspect there are many others with the same mindset so the sooner DAZ blows our socks off with the incredible features of DS5, the sooner I will begin spending that saved cash.
The thing about the proportions though, is that they can be achieved on any Genesis model, 1-8. Proportion is a stylistic choice, not something I would claim as a generational improvement. We also have plenty of anime and toon style characters with highly exaggerated proportions in every generation. Josie 9 is a perfect example, her proportions are not very realistic, even though she is G9 just like Victoria 9.
It is the same with skin. Skin texturing is its own art form, both in style and technique. The person who made Victoria 9 did an amazing job texturing that model, and they came up with a really good Iray setup to make the textures pop. But none of these things are actually part of Genesis 9 itself, it is simply an artist doing really good work. But too many people are acting as if Victoria 9 is what Genesis 9 is, instead of understanding that Victoria 9 is just a well made character. Victoria 9 could absolutely exist on Genesis 8 or 8.1.
....and she would probably have better bending! This is the maddening part of all of this. Expressions are nice, but posing is every bit as important.
Again, we can point at Josie 9 as an example of how the base Genesis has little to do with the resulting character. Josie's skin is toonish and lacking any of the detail that can be found in Victoria 9. The differences between Victoria 9 and Josie 9 illustrate how much the artist behind the character decides what that character is going to be. We can also look at various PAs who have made characters for both G8 and G9. For many of these PAs, their G9 characters still have their distinct style you see with Genesis 8. RY characters for G9 still have that RY look. Thorne was behind Josie, and you can see that Thorne look in her.
This is most likely true, at least for me, hopefully, then, PAs end up fixing G9, as my solitary issue is with the wretched noodle knees!
Unless Daz continues with the bare-bones noodle-kneed models with G10, hopefully then, PAs end up fixing G10...
Unless Daz continues with the bare-bones noodle-kneed models with G11, hopefully then, PAs end up fixing G11*
Wait a minute...
From what I'm seeing at stores elsewhere I think G8 will be the new V4/M4 generation. There was a long run with it in production, and further characters will be created, just at a lower rate than before.
Where are we now in terms of V4 age? 16 yo.. something like that. My first V4 image was Feb 2007, and I was not a first adopter by a while. There are a few new V4 characters being created even now, and there are 1174 V4 characters for sale in the Rendo store. I think that all bodes well for continued availability of the longer lived G8 range. And, for a few years, continued new material being available.
Regards,
Richard
V4 is still being supported by the creators because it works in Poser, but I wouldn't be worried about G8 at this point. Here at DAZ store there are over 13 thousand products tagged G8/G8.1, and new ones are still being released here and especially on the other stores.
Could elaborate how G9 is easier to design for than G8/8.1?
Well, going from the most personal/obvious stuff to least:
Unisex
I often make anthropomorphic figures. This means there's fur I design to fit on the body. The unisex base means I have to do pretty much NOTHING to have the fur fit on male or female figures, which greatly increases my ability to make a male and female model. (With split figures, I have to make an entirely new fur and then hope I got it to work similar to both)
The Unisex also cuts down on the difficulties of making a flexible character. It's still more work, there are tweaks and corrective morphs so it works well with either gender, but it's way less work than two entirely separate figures. And that means I don't have to 'risk' bad sales if I make both male and female and nobody wants one.
Combined surfaces
Again, with doing fur? Having 'head' as a zone ... OH THANK FREAKIN GOD. Before, I'd end up with Ears, Face, Head, Lips, Body, Arms, Legs. That's a lot of freakin surfaces, and any time I, say, save a fur color preset, that means carefully going through and drilling down into each surface. Which is extra weird when the first four surfaces all end up using the same flippin maps. ARGH.
It's also a bit easier with other textures.
Even mesh
Ok, I know everyone goes on and on and on and on and ON about the stupid nipples and navels, but they were annoying as heck to sculpt around. You run a smoothing brush near a nipple and BAM. You got little pointy thorns for nipples. Trying to move around the nipple, again, better try to keep that patch of mesh from distorting. With a simple grid mesh? It's waaaay easier to sculpt on.
An even mesh is more ... stable with a lot of sculpting tools.
Doubled mesh
The mesh density is double, generally. This makes basic sculpting a lot easier. I've particularly noticed a benefit in the face, where you don't have to fight so hard to try to get certain lines and shapes in. This also means corrective morphs will be a bit better because, again, base density is higher so you can tweak with more detail.
For everyone worried about lack of access to HD morphs, well, this is a big win for standard morphs. And even for we who have access to HD morphs, it broadly makes things easier.
Nails
Nails have a mesh such that there's a line down the middle of each one. That ... might not be a big deal to most people, but it makes doing claws way easier.
Separate eyes/mouth geometry
Way easier to sculpt. It does take some practice to remember how to adjust the eyes/mouth and save those as linked correctives, but it's not really hard, and it's pretty forgiving.
pre-G9... it was soooooooooo easy to mangle eye or mouth geometry. Then you'd have to reset those vertices and nudge them back into place. ugh
Proportions
The proportion dials allow a lot of easy options to adjust a figure in ways that will fit well with clothing. This makes a designer's job WAY easier. I mean, it does require some lateral thinking in designing proportions separately from shaping, but the result is pretty darn smooth
UV Map
The UV maps for eyes and mouth are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better. Oh thank gad.
Anyway, I'm sure there are other things, but every PA I've spoken to about it prefers G9, once they've had time to get into it.