Omni Shader Hair Thread

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  • So actual hair tests.

    Original Dual Lobe hair;

    image

     

    OmniHair;

    image


    The biggest issue I'm having with OmniHair is how its colours are much more washed out. Need to find a fix for that.

    DT omni hair.png
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    DT DualLobe Hair.png
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  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,256

    Is this with you just playing with the shader? Or is this with using the presets?

  • SilverGirlSilverGirl Posts: 847

    Ghosty12 said:

    lou_harper said:

    chevybabe25 said:

    Vendors that I know (other than myself)  make or have made strand hair:

    Toyen

    Oso3D

    Redz

    Propschic and Aidano

    PhilW

    HM

    Aprilysh

    On occasion I have seen strand hairs from different vendors including: Several by Linday,  a couple from Mihrelle,1 from CakeOne, Lady LittleFox,Vyusur, Valzheimer, Will Dupre, MAB and 3Diva.

    If I have missed any, I can add them to this list.

    Aren't the Outoftouch (OOT) hairs strand based?

    Unfortunately there are no strand based / fibermesh hair products done by Outoftouch at the moment.

    Thank you so much for this. I was all excited over this shader, but apparently it won't work on any of the styles that look "right" on my people. You just saved me a lot of frustration and the purchase of a product that would've been useless to me.

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,256

    You are very welcome :) 

  • HylasHylas Posts: 4,988

    Ghosty12 said:

    (...) and right now there are not that many strand based / fibre mesh hair products since the tech for it is still relatively new.

    i was under the impression that "fiber mesh" is a kind of polygonal hair and distinct from strand based.

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,256

    I just tried this on one of Neftis hairs, and the outcome was not spectacular.  This is definitely for strand hair only.

  • chevybabe25 said:

    Is this with you just playing with the shader? Or is this with using the presets?

    Playing with the core shader.

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,256
    edited February 28

    Ok a few tips or tricks with the actual shader:

    The shader is set from the beginning to offer you something good right out of the box.  You should only really mess with base coloring/melanin/ hair dye. Layer styles are cool to mess with too.

    The base color should be set to something darker and saturated than the actual hair color you want to set.  If you start from a clean white base, you will see it has limited effect and is more of a transmission/translucency type of thing. Same with the melanin.

    Hair Color Weight - this is where that lovely shiny base comes from. By Default it is set to .7 I believe?  I think its a good weight for this shader. So you shouldnt have to mess with this all that much.

    Hair Dye Weight - The name describes it perfectly. This is where most of your color comes from. By default it is set to .3.  Going higher will make more of this color come through. Downfall is that it will mattify the hair just like hair dye would.  This is an option to turn down shine but dont go crazy with it. 

    IOR. This by default is set to 1.55 This also controls shine. If you are doing something like fur, turning this down will help. You can crank this up a smidge if you want, but I havent found a need to do that.  

     

     

    Post edited by chevybabe25 on
  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,714
    edited February 28

    Hylas said:

    Ghosty12 said:

    (...) and right now there are not that many strand based / fibre mesh hair products since the tech for it is still relatively new.

    i was under the impression that "fiber mesh" is a kind of polygonal hair and distinct from strand based.

    They are indeed 2 different technologies, and yes fiber mesh hair is polygonal hair. IIRC both can be used as a base to create dForce hair though.

    Post edited by Leana on
  • chevybabe25 said:

    Ok a few tips or tricks with the actual shader:

    The shader is set from the beginning to offer you something good right out of the box.  You should only really mess with base coloring/melanin/ hair dye. Layer styles are cool to mess with too.

    The base color should be set to something darker and saturated than the actual hair color you want to set.  If you start from a clean white base, you will see it has limited effect and is more of a transmission/translucency type of thing. Same with the melanin.

    Hair Color Weight - this is where that lovely shiny base comes from. By Default it is set to .7 I believe?  I think its a good weight for this shader. So you shouldnt have to mess with this all that much.

    Hair Dye Weight - The name describes it perfectly. This is where most of your color comes from. By default it is set to .3.  Going higher will make more of this color come through. Downfall is that it will mattify the hair just like hair dye would.  This is an option to turn down shine but dont go crazy with it. 

    IOR. This by default is set to 1.55 This also controls shine. If you are doing something like fur, turning this down will help. You can crank this up a smidge if you want, but I havent found a need to do that.  

     

     

    So I continued experimenting and for fur this has worked; Off-white base+0.50 hair dye.

    For hair, I tested your suggestions. The pale strands bother me, but I assume they are due to the lighting being the default Daz iray one.

    I included the settings I used.

     

    hairtest2024.png
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    calihairomnihairwip.png
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  • HighElfHighElf Posts: 365

    I like the new toy. What I need now, are fibre mesh Eyelash products. xD And maybe an easier way to create SBH.

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,256

    chevybabe25 said:

    I just tried this on one of Neftis hairs, and the outcome was not spectacular.  This is definitely for strand hair only.

    I take this back. CC's Beard Boss which is true fibermesh looks fantastic with the shader on it.

  • paulawp (marahzen)paulawp (marahzen) Posts: 1,371
    edited February 28

    chevybabe25 said:

    chevybabe25 said:

    I just tried this on one of Neftis hairs, and the outcome was not spectacular.  This is definitely for strand hair only.

    I take this back. CC's Beard Boss which is true fibermesh looks fantastic with the shader on it.

    Is there any advance telltale way of knowing which of the fibermesh products is a good fit, or is it just something to try and see what happens? I have lots of fibermesh hairs and would be curious which - technically speaking - work well with this new shader. (I use Beard Boss a lot so it's great news that it works well with that.)

    Post edited by paulawp (marahzen) on
  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,256

    I would avoid any "fibermesh" hairs that use transparency maps.  

  • chevybabe25 said:

    Vendors that I know (other than myself)  make or have made strand hair:

    Toyen

    Oso3D

    Redz

    Propschic and Aidano

    PhilW

    HM

    Aprilysh

    On occasion I have seen strand hairs from different vendors including: Several by Linday,  a couple from Mihrelle,1 from CakeOne, Lady LittleFox,Vyusur, Valzheimer, Will Dupre, MAB and 3Diva.

    If I have missed any, I can add them to this list.

     

    Just out of curiosity, do you plan on doing product updates for the new shader, or is it on us to do it if we want to use it? For example, right now I'm using Neroli hair in a lot of renders, and while I'm curious how it would look compared to the old version, I'm not sure I trust myself enough to start messing around with the hair shaders. 

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,256

    I am not going back to update all the old hairs.  They were long before curves were even introduced. However, you can quickly update them with the Revolution shader presets I released in the store and changing the line tesselation to 0 on both viewport and render. Its rather quick and painless :)

  • davesodaveso Posts: 7,008

    while it sounds intriguing and all, I think I'm passing on this new deal. It hurts my head thinking about messing with another technique, tool, whatever. I'm already too confused as it is. how many different kinds of hairs are there? 

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,256

    It's just the last shader improvement we are gonna see in a very long time for the strand hair.  This was the final jump we all needed to make it look modern and comparable to traditional geo hair.

  • bohemian3bohemian3 Posts: 1,034
    edited February 28

    Fantastic Product !!!  Just a quick test - I've found lighting will be more important than ever with these accurate shaders - Had to adjust my hair spotlight - still running a little 'hot' here as you can see. Also this hair (Dannie Hair for Genesis 9) has a 'messy' morph - look for these if the product has it to separate the strands to take full advantage of the strand technology.

    I can't wait to play more.  Thanks so much for your hard work on this.

    temp copy.png
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    Post edited by bohemian3 on
  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,256

    Thats what im talkin about!!!!!! LOVE IT!heart

  • ChoppskiChoppski Posts: 507

    Not quite ready to update DS yet as everytime I do it seems there is some new hellish issue I have to resolve, but my question is for the new hair, like the Halo, can that be used without the new shaders? I have several hair shader options that I use on strandbased hair (beards, body hair) and well, on pretty much any hair. Just wondering if these new hair products will only work with the new shaders/.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    Eboshijaana said:

    So I continued experimenting and for fur this has worked; Off-white base+0.50 hair dye.

    For hair, I tested your suggestions. The pale strands bother me, but I assume they are due to the lighting being the default Daz iray one.

    I included the settings I used.

     

    @Eboshijaana Make sure you select the dForce hair (not parent cap) and go to the Parameters pane and set Line Tessellation to 0 for both  Viewport and Render. chevybabe25 has mentioned this several times. It is very important. Newer hairs may already be set this way, but older ones won't. If you don't see Line Tessellation as an option, you have not selected a strand-based hair object.

     

    Screenshot 2024-02-28 141706.jpg
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  • ToyenToyen Posts: 1,888

    bohemian3 said:

    Fantastic Product !!!  Just a quick test - I've found lighting will be more important than ever with these accurate shaders - Had to adjust my hair spotlight - still running a little 'hot' here as you can see. Also this hair (Dannie Hair for Genesis 9) has a 'messy' morph - look for these if the product has it to separate the strands to take full advantage of the strand technology.

    I can't wait to play more.  Thanks so much for your hard work on this.

  • barbult said:

    Eboshijaana said:

    So I continued experimenting and for fur this has worked; Off-white base+0.50 hair dye.

    For hair, I tested your suggestions. The pale strands bother me, but I assume they are due to the lighting being the default Daz iray one.

    I included the settings I used.

     

    @Eboshijaana Make sure you select the dForce hair (not parent cap) and go to the Parameters pane and set Line Tessellation to 0 for both  Viewport and Render. chevybabe25 has mentioned this several times. It is very important. Newer hairs may already be set this way, but older ones won't. If you don't see Line Tessellation as an option, you have not selected a strand-based hair object.

     

    *Facepalm* Aurgh, yeah. I thought I did that. Ty for reminding me XD

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    edited February 28

    I haven't checked out with the new products yet (more shopping to do), so I just played in the Surfaces pane. This was before chevybabe25 posted her tips, so I may have modified things I should have left alone. Still, for a first try, I think it looks pretty nice. The hair is dForce Bodacious Bob by chevybabe25.

    Bodacious Bob Omni_001 small_Default Camera.png
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    Post edited by barbult on
  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,256

    "Not quite ready to update DS yet as everytime I do it seems there is some new hellish issue I have to resolve, but my question is for the new hair, like the Halo, can that be used without the new shaders? I have several hair shader options that I use on strandbased hair (beards, body hair) and well, on pretty much any hair. Just wondering if these new hair products will only work with the new shaders/."

    You can try and use different shaders if you would like. What i can say is that I noticed going back and forth between the omni and dual lobe, is dual lobe was a lot more unforgiving. Lumps and bumps that i dont care for were way more standy outy to me.

     

    Barbult your images are always a treat!!! It looks gorgeous!!! And thank you for all your help clarifying things :)

     

  • bohemian3 said:

    Fantastic Product !!!  Just a quick test - I've found lighting will be more important than ever with these accurate shaders - Had to adjust my hair spotlight - still running a little 'hot' here as you can see. Also this hair (Dannie Hair for Genesis 9) has a 'messy' morph - look for these if the product has it to separate the strands to take full advantage of the strand technology.

    I can't wait to play more.  Thanks so much for your hard work on this.

    Much of the core hard work was doen by nVidia https://docs.omniverse.nvidia.com/materials-and-rendering/latest/materials.html#omnihairbase - Daz devs then had to inetgrate it with DS.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,888
    edited February 28

    kyoto kid said:

    ...my #1 & 2 questions:  does it require the latest update of the Daz General release (4.22.0.16) and newest Nvidia drivers?

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8610071/#Comment_8610071 Edit to clarify that I am talking about the development side, not slighting the PAs who take the results of that development and create content to make it readily usable.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • What is the ponytail hair in todays sales page? the second video from the top, next to the text "Kara’s has a more Natural strand based hair that looks photo realistic, resembling real-world hair"

    Also who or what is Kara's?

  • chevybabe25chevybabe25 Posts: 1,256

    ahhh Daz is sneaky arent they?

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