►►► ....and, all links lead to the EULA!
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I am not going to quibble about EULA details.... the problem I am having is not with the EULA itself. It has nothing to do with...anything that may be written in the thing... the trouble I am having is that I can not access my account. There is no reason or excuse for trying to force me to accept a new agreement when all I want to do is access my account... that's the simplest way I can say it. I want back into my account.
I'm guessing here but; The person printing them must have a licence, which essentially means the printer must have purchased each and every product used in the work to be printed in 3D.
As Daz don't offer multi-user licences (to the best of my knowledge), that's really the only mechanism available at the moment... but like I said only a few minutes ago further up the thread, the new EULA isn't really clear on this, but I can see 3D print becoming quite a minefield as it gets cheaper and more widespread.
Well, I see all the usual DAZ cheerleaders are here, and once again defending the company line.
My only complaint, like Jasmine Skunk, is the fact that I can not get to my account to download previous purchases without accepting this new EULA, and I don't think I should have to do that to retrieve what I already paid for and agreed to the EULA in the original installer. And which I will have to accept AGAIN, if I re-install the content.
This is so unbelievable, I don't know how many more times DAZ can do things like this and expect to keep customers and content creators. I wonder if the next step will be to remove our previous purchases from our purchase history, that way, we'd have to accept the new EULA when we had to repurchase the item.
They normally don't let me post because my business speak isn't very good, but its late at night and this needs some explanation.
The reason the EULA is blocking the pages to reach download files is because of the imminent launch of the Daz Install Manager. Before the EULA placement change the flow was this: Purchase content, download content, start up the installer, accept EULA, install content, use content. Note that the accepting the EULA had nothing directly to do with the purchase or purchase process, but was part of the delivery of the content after the fact.
Now, because of moving to ZIPs for DIM and, in the near future, phasing out the executable installers all together, that essentially removes the point at which the EULA can be read and accepted, and putting that into a ZIP is impossible. So, it had to be brought onto the site, and presented in "as close" as the same spot in the flow as before. So now the process is as follows: Purchase content, accept EULA, download content, install content, use content. And because, if not going through DIM, the same process for downloading executable installers will be the same as downloading the ZIP installers, and there isn't a good way with the store at to selectively say, per download, "Hey accept this EULA" and then track each EULA acceptance with each download as that breaks DIM functionality of being able to just accept it before using it, and then fire off all downloads and installs at once.
Ideal? No. Evil and giant conspiracy to try to limit your content? No. The vast majority of the EULA didn't change (and in some respects, increases the rights of the User to use) and added language for 3D printing which, in the old EULA, would have been a flat out violation as anything other than 2D renders, animations, etc., was prohibited (I am not a legal expert, but that is what was explained to me), and tried to combine all the previous agreements (EULA, game license, academic license) all under one document so you wouldn't have to agree to multiple EULAs depending on what your use or institution is.
I did mention that problem is being addressed.
Hey, at least this time the EULA actually has buttons so you have a choice.
And no need to get snotty about 'DAZ cheerleaders'. I've done my share of boo-ing and rah-ing over the years.
That's plenty fair. Forcing users to accept an EULA that retroactively alters previous legally binding agreements in order to access their purchases or use their store credit is not.
*sigh* Is there a grown-up there I can talk to? Who said anything about evil conspiracies? I don't CARE what is in the new EULA... I don't care about the new Daz Installer... I just want to be able to access my account. I don't want to keep being told to just accept the EULA because of this or because of that. I don't want to hear how wonderful it is or how it gives me more freedom... or how there isn't a better way because of an installer I do not intend to use...I just want access to the things I have already purchased and made agreements about.
The term "physical image" is more likely a computer term as in an ISO file or something like that which may be required by the 3rd party in order to make the 3D print.
"More likely" or a "term" or "maybe" doesn't cut it. legal documents must clearly state what they mean.
For example, what if I wanted to make a paper sculpture of Michael 4 based on a the 3D measurements of the character's mesh?
Of course it doesn't cut it. Legal documents normally have a long list of definitions at the very start by what is meant by every significant word ... like who is the "user" and who is the "company", etc. As written I don't even have to ask my lawyer if she would recommend signing this. And she can write a document saying black is white and be meaning it is black ... and rest assured, it is legal.
In another thread somebody told me that they will be rewriting parts of the agreement so to be patient and wait for them to do that before agreeing.
edit: found the good news: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16412/P60/#241707
Some digital content delivery services put a hard limit on the number of downloads you can download in a lifetime. Some put a time limit on them where you have to download it before X number of days or you can't anymore. Some send a temporary download link in an email that expires after you download it.
We try to provide you with all the content that you have ever purchased. We do that as best we can even though it isn't specified in any agreement that installers to content that is licensed from us will be accessible indefinitely. If for new purchases you make and want to download, you have to accept the new EULA. If there are any purchases made within the last 30 days I'm sure you can contact support and they will be happy to arrange an alternate delivery method of the content or you can try to return the item and delete it from your system as you would be revoking the license to it. If you want continued indefinite access to all the content you purchased a license to use, its pretty much the EULA to access those areas of the site for the time being. Is that forcing a new license on your old content? Not at all. You can still use that content, install from installers you have downloaded, saved, or backed up. However, continued indefinite access to all old content as a service we provide on the website and new license purchases going forward requires the new EULA due to changes in direction in how we plan to deliver that content which we feel will be a major benefit for the vast majority of our customers.
As for those not accepting the EULA because of the part about non-acceptance (which logically makes no sense since you can't be bound to it unless you accept it) and are waiting for that to be stripped out and other parts which need further clarification, we are working fast to get that fixed and are sorry for the disruption that has caused.
So, to break this down as simply as I can, as I understand it... if I want to re download any of my old purchases, I will HAVE to check the agree box to get to my older purchases? Is that what you're telling me here?
Yes or No?
**Never mind, you answered in the above post, before I finished typing, lol
Yes, traditionally, the EULA is "agreed" upon installation of the software, but really by purchasing the products, you are going to be installing them so there's nothing wrong with 'agreeing' a EULA when you purchase an item (that would ensure that there is no confusion about retrospectively enforceable agreements).
There's nothing wrong with having a little button to click that says you've read, understood and agree to the EULA (and a link to the EULA) every time you make a purchase (and I don't accept that whatever software Daz uses for it's store can not cope with such a mechanism). That way, by purchasing something, you are effectively agreeing to the T&C's attached to the purchase, download and use.
The main gripe people are having is that people are being asked to agree to something that has no bearing what-so-ever on the action they are attempting to perform (eg: access content purchased prior to this new EULA or even just to check their account status)...
Thank you.
Thank you, that is exactly my complaint!
However, I'm not surprised that the software DAZ is using for the store cannot cope with this distinction, it seems to have A LOT of limitations!
As I understand it, you cannot access your account in order to tell support what you want delivering in an alternate method unless you accept the EULA that you don't want to accept which is why you are contacting support to arrange an alternative delivery method.
Yes you can. The only parts of the site being "blocked" by the EULA is the downloadable products section and the itemized order history section.
As I understand it, you cannot access your account in order to tell support what you want delivering in an alternate method unless you accept the EULA that you don't want to accept which is why you are contacting support to arrange an alternative delivery method.
Bingo! However the PM system works if one happens to have an address.
Yes you can. The only parts of the site being "blocked" by the EULA is the downloadable products section and the itemized order history section.
In that case I guess it would be difficult to ask support for an alternative delivery method for an item you can not get details of because you can not access your itemised order history without accepting the EULA that is the reason that you want an alternative delivery method. ;-)
I too have no real beef with the new EULA (the parts that did give me cause for concern are apparently being altered), but I too would find it odd that just checking my order history potentially altered the T&Cs; I agreed to upon installation of content and software that I purchased last year regardless of if I was intending to re-download them today or not.
Perhaps some content delivery services do put a hard limit on the number of downloads one can download, however, here at Daz 3D, they clearly have spelled out the instructions, requirements and entitlements that users have regarding their content on at least two different pages in their CURRENT Document Center :
https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/123812
https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/123804-Resetting-Download-Links
...and yes, I did save the pages.
Look... I am not doing anything wrong here, nor asking for anything unreasonable. I understand wanting to make sure people sign the EULA before purchasing....but I'm not wanting to make a purchase. I just want to access my account... according to the policies I understood at the time of purchase. I am not asking for anything I shouldn't have.
Yes you can. The only parts of the site being "blocked" by the EULA is the downloadable products section and the itemized order history section.
No, I tried to contact support and was blocked by the EULA. Can't access my support tickets or make new ones.
edit: THEY FIXED IT. Thank you :-)
DAZ_Jon, it wasn't about arguing about EULA because it was a blanket statement. It was arguing about EULA because it was a blanket statement that doesn't allow us to access previous purchases - which are, at this point, in exes just like they were, - and also because EULA illegally granted itself the rights over our previously purchased content and demanded that we deleted it in case if we don't accept it (and it still is demanding it, in cases of of EULA on blocked downloads pages).
If I may remind you, I bought the product under a certain EULA and regardless of how this product is delivered I still have rights to access that product under this previous agreement. No EULA can retroactively change those terms and this is what new EULA is doing currently. Regardless of what your intentions were with it and new download process, this is not a right and proper way to word it like that.
And you see, EULA has power only if accepted. It might say what happen if I don't accept it from this point on (like my access to the site will be blocked and no new purchases can be made or downloaded) but if I don't accept it, it has no power over me. So asking - no, ordering - me to delete my previously purchased, installed and backup-ed content if I don't accept holds no power.
Basically if EULA was a person, it would go like that
"Sign this." - She asks, annoyingly clinging to you clothes on every step. - "It gives me a legal right to control all your previous purchases made under a different agreement. They will be in new shiny boxes now. I can't do this if you don't sign those rights to me. It will makes it legal although it most probably breaks the law. And if you don't sign you'll have to stick an external object into your lower brains and burn your house, just because I said so, even if you aren't bound by any agreements and prefer old non-shiny locked boxes. Or, and I'll stay here forever and put a lock on your house anyway so you can't get in unless you sign."
I understand the situation with zips and DIM and why the need had arisen from technical point of view, but those two particular bits of new EULA (i.e. blanket retroactive approach and especially an order to destroy previously purchased and backuped content if we don't sign) are implemented poorly and and in combination with forceful blocking of already purchased content I can only see this as a bullying. At least in second case it is extremely weird because installers I backuped are still holding EULA of their own which I have to accept every time I install the content so it isn't like I'm unlawfully using them with no End User Agreement License whatsoever.
If you wish to demand that we deleted old content you'll have to refund us all previously purchased content if we don't agree on new EULA and delete said content. Which is just an atrocious suggestion as a suggestion to delete it.
I know that DAZ3D is not an evil corporation who is out to get me but then it is either not competent enough to make EULAs or takes increasingly oppressive directions with it in some parts.
"More likely" or a "term" or "maybe" doesn't cut it. legal documents must clearly state what they mean.
For example, what if I wanted to make a paper sculpture of Michael 4 based on a the 3D measurements of the character's mesh?
The dotdotdot in that quote is covering up the answer to all these questions.
I went ahead and accepted the EULA, even without the rewrites that are forthcoming. I trust DAZ enough to be able to do that, even with all that's happened this last year or so. It's all good.
I still want unobstructed access to my account please.
I still want the part about "delete your previous backups if you don't agree" amended. Backups have EULA in them, I'm not using them unlawfully.
What I don't understand is why that EULA is posted AFTER the purchase, shouldn't a person have the right to agree or disagree prior to paying for a product. What you have basically done, by placing the EULA after the purchase, but before the download is hold the paid for content hostage until the buyer agrees.
Why not have this new EULA somewhere in the purchase process, say between filling the cart and hitting that final "place order" button. That way the purchaser has agreed to the new EULA for the NEW product, but also has a chance to say no before being charged for the content. To place it after payment means if a person doesn't agree they then have to go through a refund process. And since the customer service folks seem to be busy putting out fires elsewhere isn't this a waste of their time as well as the customers?
I've bought and downloaded content in .zip form at other 3D content sites for years, and never have I had to agree to a EULA AFTER I placed my order and paid for it. And there is a copy in the .zip, along with a Read Me, hey what a concept, all the info in one nice little package.
And I agree with Cimaira. Just put "Agree to EULA terms and conditions" during checkout like any other place does (just try to buy games online without that checkbox). In that case new items are bought with new EULA and user is aware that he has to sign EULA before the purchase, not after.
Prior to the changeover to zips for the DIM you agreed to the EULA every time you ran a DAZ 3D installer, which was after both purchase and donwloading.
Yes but why not use the better scheme which 1) is in place for a long time 2) widely used and accepted 3) more comfortable for users?
Just put the new EULA as part of checkout, make it another step you have to agree to prior to purchase.
I am not using DIM. I could care less about DIM yet the answer to fix an issue with DIM affects me.