►►► ....and, all links lead to the EULA!
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Key words here are AFTER DOWNLOADING.
Now I have products that I purchased and can no longer download. I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure it's not entirely legal to change the terms AFTER I've purchased something.
Why all the resistance to putting this new EULA in the purchase process, I mean we keep being told that the changes in the new EULA "if anything give you MORE freedom". If that's true, why make us agree to new terms to access old purchases?
The explanation given to us is that because old purchases will be remade into new installers and the format of new installers requires new EULA. And if sort of make sense when they will be repackaged (currently they aren't).
But BS part of it is to demand to delete perfectly workable backups of old _exe_ installers _with EULA in them_.
Same here I have no plans to use the DIM. But apparently putting the EULA as part of the purchase process is not seen as an option. DAZ can you say compromise?? This way you get your new EULA and customers can access their old purchases without all this drama!
Why? It isn't a format issue of zip files. I'm buying a pdf book (which I can open _right now_ after purchase), I still can sign EULA/Terms and Conditions on purchase and this is PDF! What can be simpler than pdf aside of plain text?
The explanation given to us is that because old purchases will be remade into new installers and the format of new installers requires new EULA. And if sort of make sense when they will be repackaged (currently they aren't).
But BS part of it is to demand to delete perfectly workable backups of old _exe_ installers _with EULA in them_.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be obnoxious, but how does repackaging a product change the EULA? If they are going to zips, add an EULA in the zip or keep a copy of the old EULA on file. THAT is what I purchased, no matter how I install it. I just don't like having to agree to a NEW EULA to access my old purchases, that is my main complaint.
Why? It isn't a format issue of zip files. I'm buying a pdf book (which I can open _right now_ after purchase), I still can sign EULA/Terms and Conditions on purchase and this is PDF! What can be simpler than pdf aside of plain text?
I have no idea why it wouldn't be an option.
But so far all the responses from Mods/Admins and such have seemed to indicate that this is NOT an option and will not happen. Guess the store software can't handle that quirk either.
My main complain is that they deny us the right to use a perfectly EULA-ed exes from backups if we don't comply. And yes, accessing the previously purchased content as well.
New EULA must have power only for new content by default. New EULA maybe more liberating for users to use, but it should be a choice in regard of the previously purchased content, not the only choice.
I have no idea why it wouldn't be an option.
But so far all the responses from Mods/Admins and such have seemed to indicate that this is NOT an option and will not happen. Guess the store software can't handle that quirk either.
This is what you get for using eCommerce engine which is an anagram to EVIL MUTANT MASTERMIND! (i.e. Magento = Magneto)
No good will come from it. No good.
So now if I want to download an older product I have to agree to this new EULA - hey daz why not pull my shorts down, and bend me over while your at it
Same here I have no plans to use the DIM. But apparently putting the EULA as part of the purchase process is not seen as an option. DAZ can you say compromise?? This way you get your new EULA and customers can access their old purchases without all this drama!
My concern with this idea is that they might change the EULA at any time and you'd have to read it every single time you purchase something. On other sites, the EULA is in an easy to find spot, you can read it when ever you want to. And they tell you that by purchasing and using a product you agree to the terms in the EULA. Perhaps they can make you click on Agree the first time you are about to purchase something (as part of the checkout process), allow you to download the EULA if you like, and then not present it again unless it changes, at which time they can rinse and repeat.
Dana
The explanation given to us is that because old purchases will be remade into new installers and the format of new installers requires new EULA. And if sort of make sense when they will be repackaged (currently they aren't).
But BS part of it is to demand to delete perfectly workable backups of old _exe_ installers _with EULA in them_.
Actually, whether it is in an .EXE installer or a .ZIP file, it doesn't matter. The agreement is for the use of the product, not the packaging. If you have already purchased the product in the past, which came with its own EULA, then that EULA should not be replaced...the original EULA should be packaged in the new zip file at best.
Dana
Actually, whether it is in an .EXE installer or a .ZIP file, it doesn't matter. The agreement is for the use of the product, not the packaging. If you have already purchased the product in the past, which came with its own EULA, then that EULA should not be replaced...the original EULA should be packaged in the new zip file at best.
Dana
I don't think they'd be able to put old EULA into new zips, because as you said, EULA is tied up to the time of purchase. So basically they will have to keep a separate version of the zip for _all_ EULAs that were in action since that product went live for _each product_ and then link that specific zip to the specific purchase for _all_ their customers. And this is a TON of work, even if they automate that process somehow which I don't think is possible (because they can't even put end sale dates into store yet).
For example, if I bought V3 three years ago under old EULA I'll have to get a zip to V3 with old EULA. If I bought V3 right now, I"ll have to get the same V3 zip but with new EULA. Which would be correct thing to do but extremely man-hours expensive from DAZ3D side.
I am very glad to see specific in Paragraph E of the EULA, covering 3D printing. Good.
European users shouldn't be overly concerned. The EU parliament made very clear a while back that an EULA can't be made retrospective, especially where the terms leave the user in a weaker position than before. This, like many areas of a software licence, falls under the grounds of what some call a "fairness" test.
If the fairness test is failed, then the EULA becomes null and void and the (paying) customer can still continue to use the software. However this doesn't give the user cart blanch to do as they please, they still have to abide by the general spirit of the contract.
Theres a similar thing with the concept of "reasonable expectation". This is where a customer buys on the assumption they could use the item in a particular way. For example 3d printing is commonplace, so a term that precludes a customer from that maybe considered as unreasonable. Whereas a term that said an additional payment, say game licensing, wouldn't be unreasonable.
It's also important to note that resale of digital products is allowed under EU law. Plus these EU Directive and Rulings apply to software regardless of whatever country it's purchased from.
Note the above only applies to EUROPEAN customers. But US consumers might find similar conditions exists under American law.
Of course this actually assumes a customer will abide by a TOS. There I think plain truth is we'll tick the little box to get our toys and then do exactly what we want. For which some folks includes sharing. Which is likely to increase when companies attempt to legalise things for their benefit, and not the customers.
Well, I'm not in Europe or USA, and I really wish to respect DAZ3D EULA but I also don't intent to lose 5+ years of downloaded content just because new EULA leaves me no choice and is somewhat illegal.
Well, I for one am glad I have copies of originals on an external, a DVD and a online cloud storage box. I won't be needing to sign some new EULA if my PC croaks on me, or at least that is the hope when making redundant copies
Me too, please.
And what of us who bought products just hours before the new EULA was announced but hadn't downloaded yet only to suddenly find the terms had changed? Which version of the license do we fall under? This is really confusing, not to mention a right pain.
If you haven't downloaded it, then you haven't agreed to any EULA yet.
Other sites use zips to deliver their products, with the license agreement inside. Granted they don't make you read and accept the license agreement but I'm pretty sure it is implied that if I install and use the content purchased from their site that I agree to their license agreement.
Why can't that line be added to the Daz license agreement that instillation and use of the purchased content implies acceptance of the license agreement, and then you don't have to force people to accept the user agreement on the site before they download?
This would grant open access to items, and with those people who don't plan on using the DIM to make their downloads they would not feel as if they're being put out unecessarily.
Or why not have it as part of the DIM? As the program goes to download and install the content have it bring up the license agreement and have the person click to accept.
This keeps it out of the store, and keeps people from feeling they are being denied access to what they purchased.
On this note, I think you will find us just as willing for these specific types of exceptions when asked as we have always been. This Eula Change is to open things up more and address some changes in the world. It is overall less restrictive than our old one. It is surprising that there have been objections to accepting a less restrictive EULA in favor of keeping the older more restrictive one.
Thank you, Ann, I hope that new EULA will address that unacceptable aspect of itself in a better way.
Considering the NEW one is less restrictive, I would think you would want to fall under that one. I don't know why anyone would want to stay with the older, more restrictive EULA instead. It just doesn't make sense. So unless you want to be restricted by the old one instead, you can just agree to the new one, and then that will apply and move on.
I might have accepted the new agreement if I still trusted DAZ to do the right thing. Maybe once upon a time I did, but after the blatant threats in this latest EULA... no.
Edit: Kevin, I trust you mean well, but you must admit that it would be rather foolish to take legal advice from the opposing party in a legal dispute.
(Please excuse me if the terminology isn't entirely correct. English is not my native language, and I am not a lawyer.)
The section about the deleting content and non-acceptance was marked to be removed from it a few revisions back, but a mistake was made along the way and it got skipped over and accidentally got pushed up to the store. That has since been revised and removed.
Why is my issue being ignored in this thread? I have already mentioned several times MY issue is NOT with the new EULA.... I am having a problem with not being able to access my account for purchases I have already made under the policies that were in place at the time of my purchase. We have not been given any notice of any policy changes that were going to take place and we were not given an option to opt out... this is NOT right. I don't care how you try to paint it. There is no excuse for locking me out of my account and I have asked nicely several times now...
I will try again...
Please grant me access to my account.
Thank you.
The section about the deleting content and non-acceptance was marked to be removed from it a few revisions back, but a mistake was made along the way and it got skipped over and accidentally got pushed up to the store. That has since been revised and removed.
Accidents and other inc...er... inaccuracies seem to swarm around DAZ like fruitflys around a rotten bananna. Some people are beginning to smell it. It might smell sweet but it's still sticky goo.
-offers Jasmine a cookie-
Thanks! A tiny step closer to acceptability.
I have no problem with the EULA terms in general. I have a problem with the fact that you are attempting to force retroactive alterations to previous legally binding agreements gverning other purchases, downloads, and installs. I'll point out the following quote in particular, though there are other sections.
"This End User License Agreement (“EULA”) is the agreement that governs User’s use of software, applications, images, figures, models, 3D mesh, geometry, systems, information, documentation, and the like (“Content”) obtained, consumed, or interacted with via User’s online DAZ store account."
Now, this in itself, while a bit underhanded, seems plenty within your rights as far as I'm concerned - you can run your business and your new licensing in such a way if you want to. If you decide you won't sell me anything else until I rewrite all my previous legally binding agreements with you, so be it. I'll simply not buy anything.
The problem here is that you are denying me access to my property. I'm not specifically talking about downloads - since you can well argue not being able to download things after purchase falls under content not performing correctly and I should simply return them. I'm talking about my hundred-plus US dollars worth of store credit, all given to you within the past 30 days, payment in goods or services which you owe me, and yet are refusing to allow me to use unless I alter previous legally binding agreements. That's a pretty untenable position.
If the EULA isn't rewritten in such a way that it only applies to content bought or downloaded after agreeing, or made optional [or both - hey, I would have accepted the new EULA as it stands if it were voluntary as I have no problem with the actual terms], I will be expecting a refund of my current store credit to my bank account, PayPal account, or credit card, whichever is simplest for you. I'll also be returning every item I was unable to download plus any plugins I expect to be broken by updates, with an attempt to pick them up from alternate sources so as not to hurt the vendors, terminating my Platinum Club membership, and not shopping at DAZ3D again until acceptable changes are made.
Again. I have no problem with most updates to the EULA. We were well overdue for many of them. This is a matter of principle. The difference between walking into a furniture store where the new owner says "hey, just so you know, we have a new policy about the display of items bought here" and finding a note on one's doorstep reading "if you want to see your table again..." in letters chopped from magazine pages.
It doesn't effect you today, perhaps, but in the future all products will be in zip files since the exe's are going away so you'd have to agree with the new EULA anyway. DIM or not you will be downloading zips.
I hear you, and agree. I try to go to my itemized order list (as frustratingly obtuse as it is) just to see what I've purchased in the past and has nothing to do with downloading or installing, and am blocked by an agreement I must sign affecting all future downloads.
The villagers have burned the front gate and gotten the worst of the ridiculous wording removed but still, this whole debacle was very poorly thought out and executed. Typical. And we're expected to embrace the new download manager contraption brought to you by the same folks?
As my father used to say: "Trust is easily given, once."
It does affect us today, I cant reset or get any old downloads untill I am forced to accept this new EULA, so they are withholding my purchases which I have paid for to me that is blackmail, sign this or you can't get things you have paid for, I would have said extortion but think that was a bit too much.
What sort of people do they have at Daz if, a version of the EULA was supposed to have things removed from it and yet that version was the one that went live?