►►► ....and, all links lead to the EULA!
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A decade or so ago I was frustrated by DAZ's lack of professionalism and called them a mom & pop organization but gave them some slack because of it. However, I think mom and pop have died or gone senile letting the inmates run the asylum, or sold out to the sleazy uncle.
I think they are hoping if they ignore us long enough we will go away! I want access to my itemized order history also, without having to click accept. IF indeed this new EULA is less restrictive, what is the big deal in allowing that??
And a .zip CAN have an EULA included, you CAN include the accept button as part of the purchase process, PRIOR to paying. Or at least every other content site I shop at does this. So why CAN'T DAZ?
And I really wish they would stop using the software as a reason, if it stinks so badly that it can't do what other content stores software can do, I'd say you got robbed and should try to get your money back. It's amazing that a brand new software cannot do what a store that was supposedly held together with chewing gum and string could do. Bring back the chewing gum and string , please.
I still see a EULA brick wall.
Change it.
Actually, whether it is in an .EXE installer or a .ZIP file, it doesn't matter. The agreement is for the use of the product, not the packaging. If you have already purchased the product in the past, which came with its own EULA, then that EULA should not be replaced...the original EULA should be packaged in the new zip file at best.
Dana
I don't think they'd be able to put old EULA into new zips, because as you said, EULA is tied up to the time of purchase. So basically they will have to keep a separate version of the zip for _all_ EULAs that were in action since that product went live for _each product_ and then link that specific zip to the specific purchase for _all_ their customers. And this is a TON of work, even if they automate that process somehow which I don't think is possible (because they can't even put end sale dates into store yet).
For example, if I bought V3 three years ago under old EULA I'll have to get a zip to V3 with old EULA. If I bought V3 right now, I"ll have to get the same V3 zip but with new EULA. Which would be correct thing to do but extremely man-hours expensive from DAZ3D side.
I don't think it would be hard at all. The old EULA was embedded in the installer...so it's there. The installers were just glorified zip files packaged with a self running installer. So the document was there. When converting these to zip files, they are simply putting the files inside the installer into a new zip file, without the installer executable. So no, not difficult at all...the files are already there. It's not that they can't, it's that they don't want to.
I have saved all my installers, in case I need to reinstall things, so I don't have this issue.
Dana
I obediently accepted the new EULA without reading because I am submissive and enjoy being told to do stuff. But I do think they should have the wall during the checkout new purchase dialogue... not a signin wall.
Legaleese is another language altogether...and I think they do that on purpose! :lol:
Dana
Actually, I have to admit that this whole issue is kinda reassuring to me. After the run-in I had with one of DAZ's admins the other day -- and the snarky email I got from them about it afterwards -- the next time I pulled up the site and got hit with that EULA page, I thought DAZ was trying to intimidate me. The fact that EVERYONE got hit with it means I should probably try to keep my paranoia in check.
They have not changed their policies regarding downloading nor have they given any notice that were going to. The poilcies that are in effect and have been in effect since I signed up, are still posted here:
https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/123812
https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/123804-Resetting-Download-Links
The bottom line is...
1. They have not blocked EVERYONE from their downloads
2. They did not give notice to policy changes
3. They have put up a barrier to my account.
Actually I know that I am going to find clicking once on site to accept the EULA is much easier than having to click umpteen times when installing a bunch of installers, having to accept the EULA on each one separately. I can't wait for the rest of the store to be converted to Zips, personally.
Perhaps it will be, but that is not my issue and I know they are not stupid and they fully understand what I am saying....
And honestly, I can not believe that the PA's and various staff members are going along with this ABUSE!
You know... I have loved you, Daz. I have stood by you and defended you and been a cheer leader for you, even when all of my friends abandoned you... Then you dumped me out cold.... and I still forgave you...
...but this is...
just WRONG!
And you know it.
Well I came back and went to see about downloading that nice free dragon and cave people skins .... and carefully read over the newest end user license agreement ... and they fixed it! Makes much more legal sense now as far as I can tell ... thank you. :-)
You know; for all the companies with all the necessary-in-this-day-and-age legalese paperwork ... there's a very short, succinct way to say very much.
Mind boggling penalty clause on that one too but it is still written.
Mind boggling penalty clause on that one too but it is still written.
Yes, and as Kevin has said in the thread somewhere, it is actually a more lenient in some parts, because it now specifiacally states that you can install the content on a laptop or other mobile device. THe only really new addition is the part about 3D printing, and that is of course a New thing itself anyway.
While I agreed to the terms of the EULA (after the ridiculous "delete the contents if you don't agree" clause was removed), I can see Jasmine's point that the EULA shouldn't prevent anyone from accessing something they paid for in a previous agreement. It's not the EULA itself, but the act of forcing anyone to agree to it by withholding access to prior transactions bought and agreed on that is iffy to say the least. Perhaps if it wasn't so blunt in how it's implemented. Maybe if there was an option to "do it later" (like some other sites) and then allow the user access regardless of the choice would have been a good idea. Or just have it show up when the User decides to purchase something (as pointed out before). Just my two cents (which is probably worth less than that) :P
Yeah, I agree.
Except I've accepted the EULA twice now. Once when I got the DIM, and now when I decided to grab a download that I didn't think the DIM had noted (the DIM had and I saw it later). Hope that's all now because the EULA interferes with updating taozen's item history utility which I still use to double-check the sometimes inconsistent 'purchased' note on the product page.
I found Kevin's post
Yes, and as Kevin has said in the thread somewhere, it is actually a more lenient in some parts, because it now specifiacally states that you can install the content on a laptop or other mobile device. THe only really new addition is the part about 3D printing, and that is of course a New thing itself anyway.
Agreed. Good to have something in writing about the 3D printing because that is becoming much more affordable these days. Don't know how he did it, but one person built his own printer for like, $500.
by the way ... how does one get those Daz badges to appear in the signatures? I pasted the code but it didn't work.
Yeah, I agree.
Except I've accepted the EULA twice now. Once when I got the DIM, and now when I decided to grab a download that I didn't think the DIM had noted (the DIM had and I saw it later). Hope that's all now because the EULA interferes with updating taozen's item history utility which I still use to double-check the sometimes inconsistent 'purchased' note on the product page.
Well obviously every time you go to the download page you will need to accept the EULA, but it is still going to be far less of a bother thatn having to click to accept the EULA every single time you install a product.
OK I accept, that while we are still in the transition period it may seem annoying, but once the whole store is converted, and everything is in zips, it will be easier for everyone, whether you choose to use the Install manager or not.
One click to accept, whether you are downloading 1 or 100 product files.
Yes, and as Kevin has said in the thread somewhere, it is actually a more lenient in some parts, because it now specifiacally states that you can install the content on a laptop or other mobile device. THe only really new addition is the part about 3D printing, and that is of course a New thing itself anyway.
Agreed. Good to have something in writing about the 3D printing because that is becoming much more affordable these days. Don't know how he did it, but one person built his own printer for like, $500.
by the way ... how does one get those Daz badges to appear in the signatures? I pasted the code but it didn't work.
At the moment we can't, although DAZ_BHowell has said they will get it sorted out. Just now you can't change your Avatar or add an image to your signature.
Okay, thank you ... have to also put big sentence in here ... lol ...
OK, Well...
If this is not resolved to my satisfaction within 24 hours I will be reporting this to the BBB as well as seeing into whatever other action I can take.
Thank you
Well obviously every time you go to the download page you will need to accept the EULA, but it is still going to be far less of a bother thatn having to click to accept the EULA every single time you install a product.
OK I accept, that while we are still in the transition period it may seem annoying, but once the whole store is converted, and everything is in zips, it will be easier for everyone, whether you choose to use the Install manager or not.
One click to accept, whether you are downloading 1 or 100 product files.
Every time? Eek. That's going to make it hard to use Taozen's utility until we can totally rely on the new 'purchased' notice.
Hang on...let me check something......
Good. I accepted the EULA a bit ago but I guess my session is still good. I had my account up in another tab. Just went over and clicked on Itemized list and it let me in. Opened up taozen's history manager and was able to log in. It's now pulling down my current history.
Between that and trigger happy MODS I have contacted DAZ to discuss them as well as cancelling my account.
I have my products. They are backed up in numerous ways.
Enjoy.
Jasmine, just what is it that is worrying you. I am not really understanding.
We have a less restrictive EULA than we had before, and people are still not wanting to accept it. The Clause that people were worrying about has been removed, as was mentioned some time back in the thread. What else is the problem.
You have to accept the EULA 8-O
Yay!
Why would we want to stay with the old one for older products? Because that is a legally binding agreement, and we have already agreed to it. The fact that you want us to let you change the agreement retroactively backwards is suspicious and dangerous. I remember a certain very popular movie and villain:
"I have altered our agreement...pray that I do not alter it further!"
This is setting a precedent...and that is something that lawyers also should understand.
Dana
nm
Chohole you just don't get it do you? The contents of the EULA are not so much the issue anymore. Jasmine's issue is the implementation of the blockade imposed by the EULA where it shouldn't be applied. Getting access to your records of past purchases (not the download page) or your account page being blocked by a EULA. Incorrect implementation perhaps brought on by inflexible store software or unknowlegable programmers, or corporate decree. It's not right and she has every right to complain vehemently as do I.
It's like your bank having you sign a disclaimer to get one of your checks cashed. It's like a car dealership having you sign a disclaimer to use the toilet.
You have to accept the EULA 8-O
lol ... [whisper] but it wasn't offered there ... shhhh ... let's keep that one quiet 'k. [/whisper]
I have nothing bad to say about the main part of new EULA. What was my deep and loud objection is that dumb (sorry) part which demanded us to delete our previously installed/backuped content if we don't comply; this, combined with blocked access to the downloads did feel very bad.
If I'm to believe to DAZ_Jon words "The section about the deleting content and non-acceptance was marked to be removed from it a few revisions back, but a mistake was made along the way and it got skipped over and accidentally got pushed up to the store. That has since been revised and removed."
And if there is nothing as dumb as that previous section been added instead, I have no objections to switch to the new one although the retroactive approach is still probably illegal in our local laws but as long as DAZ3D won't block/delete my previous content I don't think it will be a problem. After all "7 days limited warranty" is the same I started to agree at least 2 years ago, and you rightfully corrected me about "household" license.
BTW, the EULA from helpdesk section probably need to be changed too if you haven't done that already.
Please understand me too, the demand to delete 6 years of content was just very-very unacceptable and it eclipsed for a while all good changes that new EULA might have brought to us.
What I'm still finding very much improper is that that users who don't wish to accept new EULA (for whatever reasons) can't access their previous purchases due to account/downloads being blocked. Can DAZ3D find another technical solution to that problem other than forcing new EULA down on those people?
Yay!
Why would we want to stay with the old one for older products? Because that is a legally binding agreement, and we have already agreed to it. The fact that you want us to let you change the agreement retroactively backwards is suspicious and dangerous. I remember a certain very popular movie and villain:
"I have altered our agreement...pray that I do not alter it further!"
This is setting a precedent...and that is something that lawyers also should understand.
Dana
But it's changed in our favour ... that wasn't the case with the fictitious villain.