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I've always loved this render - one of my favorites of yours, Greg! (And you know I adore your character!). :) Excellent work! I'd love to see you do more renders of her.
Thank you, gederix! :) I guess these things can be pretty subjective. And sometimes we get wrapped up in our efforts and it's hard to tell how far or close we really are.
I think I should start a new art thread and aim to get more feedback and such. As I feel like I am getting close but then again, sometimes we just can't really "read" our own work very well. Feedback can be hugely helpful. :)
I appreciate your comments and feedback! Thank you, gederix!
Thanx for the mention, but I will be the first to say my character textures are not designed with realism in mind. I make stuff that I know will render nicely and creatively. So I take many liberties to "true realism" in order to get a render that looks "realist-ic". With my characters I am more focused on renders that look well and give a dramatic feel, not photo-real. That is a skill I leave to some of the more patient PA's who make awesome human characters ;)
Thanks, @Gregorius and others who commented on the image, but I don't know about that. Just finished catching up on the 10 pages I hadn't read in this thread, and to me the most impressive examples of photo-realism are @jeffam112368_9a28fbd572's examples:
@j cade's hair:
@Divamakeup's latest girl:
I also have to add that @Divamakeup posted a render many moons ago that, to me, is still some of the most photorealistic skin I've seen:
Thanks, Diva - I don't think I've been able to render anything since Ollie 8. This is the first opportunity I've had to sit down at a computer and read the forums (as opposed to an iPad/iPhone) in quite some time :(
- Greg
The last thing I want to do is appear stubborn, so I'm sorry if I came off that way. I try to give very measured responses. I'm certainly not going to insist that these critiques have no merit. If I seem a bit reluctant to accept them, it's only because I've experienced first-hand how one's own perception can be biased by staring at one's own work for too long and want to make sure the same isn't happening to the critic in question. Otherwise, I might ultimately end up sabotaging myself in the very attempt to get better. This is why it helps when multiple people tell me essentially the same thing, which seems to be the case here, so I've accepted that, at the very least, my morphs and quite possibly my bump maps need work (specifically, more pronounced details and maybe less exaggerated features),
I don't think my models look like cartoons, at least not nearly to the extent that others seem to be suggesting, but most of the others on this forum seem to think precisely that. This is one of the reasons I've decided I'm most likely going to take a break, in hopes that when I come back, I'll be able to see what others are seeing.
I guess part of the problem is that I feel like I'm playing a game of Whack-a-Mole. For a while, my textures were all "blurry," and now that I seem to have made enough progress in that area, my models all of a sudden look "cartoony." Maybe it's my fault for just assuming that anything not explicitly criticized is at least approaching realism. I don't know.
Please forgive me, I may have contributed to this feeling. I am new to the thread, and I saw you post several images and thought you were looking for feedback. I was not able to gather from your posts that you are using custom morphs, custom textures, and custom shaders. Whew! This is an undertaking that is far beyond my understanding LOL! Good job and Good luck!
EDIT: Let me also say, don't be so hard on yourself. Constructive critiques are there to help, not hurt. But, as you know, realism is extremely difficult. I've seen threads with 80 pages of algerbriac equations for light, skin, scattering, and like one render in the entire thread looked decent. LOL! It's hard stuff man, even for people with million dollar computers and artistic eyes. Most of us are using pre-morphed, pre-textured models, and we still struggle for results we ourselves even like, let alone look realistic to others. Anyway, good luck.
Divamakeup as always, your models are amazing. I do a double take every time I see them. EDIT: Ah! I did have one comment. Is it possible you are using an "outside" HDRI for an "inside" render? Just curious. AND, is "new girl" going to be a commercial product?
algovincian looks great! Lighting, texturing, shading, morphs, expression, everything. Great job!
Dawww Thank you, my friend! :D And I can't believe you remembered that hip render. heheh It's been a while indeed. I think I posted that at least a year and a half ago - maybe longer.
I'm sorry to hear that you're not able to render anything lately, though. :( I hope you are able to spend a bit more "you time" and time just relaxing - or having fun with your art. Take care of yourself and make time for you, if you can. *hugs*
Thank you for the feedback! I appreciate it. I've been experimenting with different HDRIs that I've made - looks like that one may need some work. lol I'll have to make some adjustments to it and see if I can improve the lighting. Thank you again for the feedback!
Wow. That's amazing. Looks photoreal to me. If there are some peach fuzz, baby hairs, that would just be icing on the cake.
I think what adds to the realism is the lighting. The lighting in those pictures is great. Looks like someone used a flash to take those photos even though it's just suppose to be light from the monitor.
I wasn't sure if you knew your character models look "cartoony" or "weird". But you keep posting it, so I just felt the need to comment on it.
I think you are just a proud parent of your creation/baby and can't see the flaws in it that others are seeing. The exagerated chins, checkbones, and puffiness of the face is what is throwing things off. It's like people getting tons of plastic surgery and they think they look amazing, but others stare at that face and think it's weird.
I notice the chin cleft on Superman is too wide & too deep and the area where the nostrils join the cheeks is too deeply indented from the surrounding cheeks most conspiculously. Your earlier versions of Superman, if I remember correctly, and I may not, were actually better.
Thanks for the detailed critique. How much earlier do you mean, exactly?
It you remember last year I feel somewhere between the 3 - 5 iteration you showed in the other part of the forum.
Here's my realism attempt.
You mean the third-to-fifth version shown here?
Yes, but still problem salthough not as exaggerated as your newest.
1) The chin cleft is not so deep and it's shallow.
2) His nose in your model looks hooked but his wasn't really.
3) Lower lip a bit thinner.
4) Cheeks need just a bit of work but not as much as the nose & areas around the nose & the chin.
Sometimes it is easier to model using a black & white picture. Render in black & white too. The color isn't so distracting and you notice the shapes better from shadows & glossiness.
Compare the 2 attached pictures. The black & white in my eyes is easier to model from.
Thanks for the detailed response! Nice tip about the black-and-white! It actually does seem to help somewhat.
The above comment is a bit surprising (specifically the "not as exaggerated as your newest" part), since I'm pretty sure the morph hasn't changed since then.
In fact, I just switched to mesh view in Poser, exported the preview, and overlayed the mesh lines over both the old and new 30-degree unposed portrait renders. The former was copied from the thread I just linked to, and the latter came from the most recent re-render done to incorporate updated textures/shaders, which I know for sure uses the exact same morph as seen in my latest render of him in this thread.
The same mesh lines up perfectly on both. I had to do a bit of scaling and translation of the mesh overlay as a whole, but no warping whatsoever. The head shape stayed the same, with perhaps just some slight difference around the chin and brow.
So it seems that, at least to some extent, either my texturing or my camera angle (or maybe a combination of the two) may somehow be emphasizing the morph's flaws. That's my best guess, anyway.
The head of hair and shirt spoil it; otherwise really good.
The shirt is infinitely thin and too sharp. The hair, I'm not sure what is wrong, but it just isn't right.
The beard is too perfect; it goes beyond just trimmed. But still very convincing. The skin 'feels' off slightly, although I'm not sure why, but again very convincing.
@mal3imagery - I think that looks great, certainly at a quick glance it could pass as a photo.
Well if I remember right, I made the same comment about the chin cleft last year being too big although I didn't recall that until now.
At any rate, you can see by looking at the attached B&W picture above you can make some improvement if you desire.
Some really great images here.
For me realism ultimately boils down to the quality of the texture.There are people who can do amazing work with lighting, shaders, and postwork / filters even using a generic texture. I am not one of those people. I've started using Facegen and I can't go back.
Take the Hayley for Genesis 3 for instance. https://www.daz3d.com/fwsa-hayley-hd-for-victoria-7
This character based on Harley Quinn as portrayed by Margot Robbie is a great figure. Lovely skin texture, finely crafted morphs. I'm glad I bought it. In someone else's hands it could probably look amazingly real if that was their intent, although a cartoony (ish?) version is truer to the character's origins. Just for fun I made a collage comparing some renders using a Fagen generated morph and texures. Do asymmetrical features add more realism? Maybe a little. Does a quality skin shader make a difference?Some. But ultimately it's the texture that makes it more realistic.
@kennrowe_f558b276d6 looks great! Great illustration of textures. Used to be, if you wanted a back drop, you created a simple plane and added a photo texture to the plane for realism. Photo textures was the norm for all manner of objects/models. Things have changed. The models have become much more detailed, and we are using physcially based shaders more often. Eventually the shaders may over take the simple photo textures in the world of realism, but not yet.
Downloaded some new HDRIs! Did some texture/shader testing. I thought this thread may appreciate the tests. (I know you are tired of seeing this particular model, I actually do have others HAHA! I use this model and texture for testing because I have a good idea in my mind of how the texture is "suppose" to look.)
The one in direct sunlight is looking a little rough, but workable! Thanks for the thread!
Okay, this is a tentative experiment. As advised, I dispensed with hair to minimize distraction. Does this look any less cartoonish?
It looks less toonish, and does much better to show what needs to be addressed on the textures in order to achieve better realism.
The tone of the skin is way too consistant. The forehead is the same tone as the cheeks, the same as the chin and neck, the same as under the eyes, etc. All those areas have distinctively different tones on "real" people. While you do have some pinkening around the eyes, which is a good start, you will notice on most people that under the eye it become more blue/purplish, and the neck gets a bit redder, and so forth on different parts of the face (and body).
Again, you have a nice bump map to somewhat give an illusion of pores, but real pores are not so uniform, they get larger and smaller on different areas of the body. Along with that, the bump map can also be used to introduce some realistic small wrinkles to the skin, for example, around the eyes and corners of the mouth, where there generally is more movement to the skin.
The eyes and lacrimal are very plastic looking, there are no soft undertones for areas around the iris and other such details that really add to the realistic look of an eye. Those could be added any number of ways, so that you can decide for yourself what works best. Also maybe some bump on them could help also.
Also, any adult guy (no matter how clean shaven) will still have indications of stubble on their face where their beard would grow in.
(some eyelashes would help too)
Thats what I can suggest off the top of my head, but again, if you compare to photos of real people, you will likely find alot more you can tweak as well.
Hope that helps.
Here's a good guide to tonal differences in the face...
Top is simpler, bottom is more complex.
Obviously, this is significantly exaggerated.
Yes it does! Did you find some old black and white contrasty photos to help recognize the facial contours more easily? The ridge on his nose seems too big though.
Thanks, guys! I'm glad it's at least a step in the right direction. Valandar, that face color variation map is very helpful! Does the rest of the body need a bit more color variation, too?
If so, do you have a similar map for the body?
Every part of the body has different tones.
Look at your hand, in your palm you will have areas that are pinker than others, the wrist will get a bit more bluish, the back of the hand will be different again.
You can go to the Renderosity Site and they have nude reference photographic materials of people for people like you that are trying to make realistic 3D models.