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dForce Hair (as well as strand based hair and the strand based hair editor) in public beta

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  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    Why?

    Gravity makes hair slip and fall.

  • JuNeJuNe Posts: 87
    Tottallou said:

     

    missuskisses said:
    Wendy_Carrara said:

    Well I need to experiment but from what I can ascertain you can grow the tips without growing the roots so an obj export/import then making it Dforce surface and dialing the root surface stimulation strength to zero on head hairs at least should make them functional dfordeable hairs like Zbrush ones I have done are, I do find those painfully slow though and just about impossible for animations as they will chew all my RAM but so does readymade  Dforce stuff already existing and much of it explodes to boot.

    If you do figure it out and can post a short tutorial, I would be ever so grateful.

    I have to try again, but when I exported a strand hair to .obj file, what I reimported appeared to be nothing...

    To export as object you need to turn the Preview PR hairs on

    Since I have neither the time nor the guts to read through the whining... how can I turn on the Preview PR hairs? I'm completely new to the Garibaldi/SBH thing. *hands out some cheese*

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,792
    JuNe said:
    Tottallou said:

     

    missuskisses said:
    Wendy_Carrara said:

    Well I need to experiment but from what I can ascertain you can grow the tips without growing the roots so an obj export/import then making it Dforce surface and dialing the root surface stimulation strength to zero on head hairs at least should make them functional dfordeable hairs like Zbrush ones I have done are, I do find those painfully slow though and just about impossible for animations as they will chew all my RAM but so does readymade  Dforce stuff already existing and much of it explodes to boot.

    If you do figure it out and can post a short tutorial, I would be ever so grateful.

    I have to try again, but when I exported a strand hair to .obj file, what I reimported appeared to be nothing...

    To export as object you need to turn the Preview PR hairs on

    Since I have neither the time nor the guts to read through the whining... how can I turn on the Preview PR hairs? I'm completely new to the Garibaldi/SBH thing. *hands out some cheese*

    With the strand hair selected it's in the Parameters pane, I can't check the group just at the moment but it's spmething like Line Tessellation or Curve Tessellation.

  • wteeningwteening Posts: 89
    I haven't had time to test yet, but can someone clarify whether the strand based hair and dForce hair are two separate things that just happened to release on the same day, or are they one and the same? If they are two separate things, how would one go about creating dForce compatible hair? (are today's dForce releases created using something other than the strand based tool?)
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,863
    wteening said:
    I haven't had time to test yet, but can someone clarify whether the strand based hair and dForce hair are two separate things that just happened to release on the same day, or are they one and the same? If they are two separate things, how would one go about creating dForce compatible hair? (are today's dForce releases created using something other than the strand based tool?)

    Only PAs can create dForce hair.

  • wteeningwteening Posts: 89
    edited June 2019
    So the toolset is actively kept away from end users? That doesn't sound very customer friendly. I'd have happily paid for a tool that would allow me to create my own dForce hair, but now I have to hope PAs will release the types of hair I need. Very disappointing.
    Post edited by wteening on
  • Hurdy3DHurdy3D Posts: 1,058
    wteening said:
    Only PAs can create dForce hair. So the toolset is actively kept away from end users? That doesn't sound very customer friendly. I'd have happily paid for a tool that would allow me to create my own dForce hair, but now I have to hope PAs will release the types of hair I need. Very disappointing.

    +1 yes

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,249
    wteening said:
    So the toolset is actively kept away from end users? That doesn't sound very customer friendly. I'd have happily paid for a tool that would allow me to create my own dForce hair, but now I have to hope PAs will release the types of hair I need. Very disappointing.

    yes

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379
    wteening said:
    So the toolset is actively kept away from end users? That doesn't sound very customer friendly. I'd have happily paid for a tool that would allow me to create my own dForce hair, but now I have to hope PAs will release the types of hair I need. Very disappointing.

    yes

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,597

    The problem actually is not denying the end user the tool as much as not providing the users with options for every figure and animal unless a PA or DAZ releases one

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

     

    wteening said:
    ...now I have to hope PAs will release the types of hair I need. Very disappointing.

     

    Wendy_Carrara said:

    The problem actually is not denying the end user the tool as much as not providing the users with options for every figure and animal unless a PA or DAZ releases one

    Could we start something of a community wishlist thread for dForce hair, then? 

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,191
    Mustakettu85 said:

     

    wteening said:
    ...now I have to hope PAs will release the types of hair I need. Very disappointing.

     

    Wendy_Carrara said:

    The problem actually is not denying the end user the tool as much as not providing the users with options for every figure and animal unless a PA or DAZ releases one

    Could we start something of a community wishlist thread for dForce hair, then? 

    I don't think it will go anywhere. It looks like DAZ is reating this as a competitive advantage and only releasing the tool to PAs. Just like the HD morph process.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,249

    How is it competitive if MOST folks are using these tools to SUPPORT the very characters they are selling?  LOL 

  • Siciliano1969Siciliano1969 Posts: 433

    Wow, bought the Dforce longdrape hair from PhilW and it is fantastic!  I render in Octane so exporting out as an obj. with the hair set to hair preview with Iray is a huge file!  ;)  Excellent job!

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,403
    RAMWolff said:

    How is it competitive if MOST folks are using these tools to SUPPORT the very characters they are selling?  LOL 

    I suspect the biggest problem with making this public is that some people will create dForce hair, and then sell it on competitor sites. That meant DAZ would have paid a lot of money to develop this system, and would make no money from those sales at a competitor. At least now it knows all dForce hair will be sold here.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,249
    Havos said:
    RAMWolff said:

    How is it competitive if MOST folks are using these tools to SUPPORT the very characters they are selling?  LOL 

    I suspect the biggest problem with making this public is that some people will create dForce hair, and then sell it on competitor sites. That meant DAZ would have paid a lot of money to develop this system, and would make no money from those sales at a competitor. At least now it knows all dForce hair will be sold here.

    I totally get that but as I mentioned, most of the folks making stuff are making stuff for figures that are sold here!  LOL 

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,403
    RAMWolff said:
    Havos said:
    RAMWolff said:

    How is it competitive if MOST folks are using these tools to SUPPORT the very characters they are selling?  LOL 

    I suspect the biggest problem with making this public is that some people will create dForce hair, and then sell it on competitor sites. That meant DAZ would have paid a lot of money to develop this system, and would make no money from those sales at a competitor. At least now it knows all dForce hair will be sold here.

    I totally get that but as I mentioned, most of the folks making stuff are making stuff for figures that are sold here!  LOL 

    Most maybe, but not necessarily all. Plenty of people also making stuff for the figures sold here, but then sell that stuff elsewhere. My guess that is more of an issue for DAZ than allowing hobbyists access to the tool.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,748
    edited June 2019
    Havos said:
    RAMWolff said:

    How is it competitive if MOST folks are using these tools to SUPPORT the very characters they are selling?  LOL 

    I suspect the biggest problem with making this public is that some people will create dForce hair, and then sell it on competitor sites. That meant DAZ would have paid a lot of money to develop this system, and would make no money from those sales at a competitor. At least now it knows all dForce hair will be sold here.

    That makes sense. Since a lot of money and time went into developing it, I'm sure, keeping it "in house" likely gives them a better chance of getting a return on the money they put into it. 

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,249

    And yet over at 'Rosity ALLOT of DForce clothing is being sold!  wink

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,748
    edited June 2019
    RAMWolff said:

    And yet over at 'Rosity ALLOT of DForce clothing is being sold!  wink

    That's my point. The amount of time and money they put into dForce Clothing only to see their competitors making a lot of money off of it can't feel great. I can see why they'd want to try and keep that from happening with dForce Hair.

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,172
    edited June 2019

    Hmm..the makers of Poser didn't seem to have the same hangups about who used their tech (and they didn't have a booming content business either). But that's all I'm gonna say about it anymore. I'm just too tired. All I know is I'm not going to buy any dforce hair. If I want strand based hair, I'll make it myself or use what I've already got. Besides, too many other free programs like Blender have hair and cloth now....I have options.

    Laurie

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • KerwinKerwin Posts: 124
    Havos said:
    RAMWolff said:

    How is it competitive if MOST folks are using these tools to SUPPORT the very characters they are selling?  LOL 

    I suspect the biggest problem with making this public is that some people will create dForce hair, and then sell it on competitor sites. That meant DAZ would have paid a lot of money to develop this system, and would make no money from those sales at a competitor. At least now it knows all dForce hair will be sold here.

    Applying that same logic, shouldn’t DAZ remove the rigging tools so that only PAs can make content like clothing?   DAZ Studio PRO 4 was originally billed as a tool to make your own content, but it’s runs against that idea if it’s intended to only be a content player and content development tools are going to be withheld to DAZ PAs only.   It’s their right to do so, but withholding tools will likely push away potential buyers who mostly buy premade content (from DAZ) and want to supplement with their own custom content or modifying purchased content.  

    At least they permit static fur in the current arrangement even if dForce hair is PA-only.  ;)

     

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    AllenArt said:

    Hmm..the makers of Poser didn't seem to have the same hangups about who used their tech (and they didn't have a booming content business either). B

    1) SM bought their hair solution from a 3rd party that they incorporated into a program that they sell to their customers. With that fee, when was the last time they've updated the toolset?

    I think we're talking about two different things. A hard fact of life is that companies need to make money to stay in business....and keeping some tech inhouse helps achieves that goal instead of a one-time sale that goes elsewhere but doesn't generate money to keep updates going for the base program.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,249
    AllenArt said:

    Hmm..the makers of Poser didn't seem to have the same hangups about who used their tech (and they didn't have a booming content business either). But that's all I'm gonna say about it anymore. I'm just too tired. All I know is I'm not going to buy any dforce hair. If I want strand based hair, I'll make it myself or use what I've already got. Besides, too many other free programs like Blender have hair and cloth now....I have options.

    Laurie

    yes

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,249
    Kerwin said:
    Havos said:
    RAMWolff said:

    How is it competitive if MOST folks are using these tools to SUPPORT the very characters they are selling?  LOL 

    I suspect the biggest problem with making this public is that some people will create dForce hair, and then sell it on competitor sites. That meant DAZ would have paid a lot of money to develop this system, and would make no money from those sales at a competitor. At least now it knows all dForce hair will be sold here.

    Applying that same logic, shouldn’t DAZ remove the rigging tools so that only PAs can make content like clothing?   DAZ Studio PRO 4 was originally billed as a tool to make your own content, but it’s runs against that idea if it’s intended to only be a content player and content development tools are going to be withheld to DAZ PAs only.   It’s their right to do so, but withholding tools will likely push away potential buyers who mostly buy premade content (from DAZ) and want to supplement with their own custom content or modifying purchased content.  

    At least they permit static fur in the current arrangement even if dForce hair is PA-only.  ;)

     

    yes

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379
    edited June 2019
    Havos said:
    RAMWolff said:

    How is it competitive if MOST folks are using these tools to SUPPORT the very characters they are selling?  LOL 

    I suspect the biggest problem with making this public is that some people will create dForce hair, and then sell it on competitor sites. That meant DAZ would have paid a lot of money to develop this system, and would make no money from those sales at a competitor. At least now it knows all dForce hair will be sold here.

    I mean, that's what happens now with figures and assets and dforce clothing on "other sites." I don't suspect DAZ is hurting, though. I buy an insane amount of content from them, as I know many of you do, as well.

    Post edited by Leonides02 on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,597

    it just makes me go back to Carrara to be honest and I dare say some might use Poser too for post hair work,

    it takes a hell of a time to render the static DS strand hairs as it is

    for me it's the difficulty of matching animations on DAZ studio iray HD renders with a shadowcatch masked Carrara hair sims to composite thats the main reason I may have used it

    Blender Alembic import sucks or particle hair with cycles would be something I'd use more too

  • wteeningwteening Posts: 89
    Leonides02 said:
    Havos said:
    RAMWolff said:

    How is it competitive if MOST folks are using these tools to SUPPORT the very characters they are selling?  LOL 

    I suspect the biggest problem with making this public is that some people will create dForce hair, and then sell it on competitor sites. That meant DAZ would have paid a lot of money to develop this system, and would make no money from those sales at a competitor. At least now it knows all dForce hair will be sold here.

    I mean, that's what happens now with figures and assets and dforce clothing on "other sites." I don't suspect DAZ is hurting, though. I buy an insane amount of content from them, as I know many of you do, as well.

    Havos said:
    RAMWolff said:

    How is it competitive if MOST folks are using these tools to SUPPORT the very characters they are selling?  LOL 

    I suspect the biggest problem with making this public is that some people will create dForce hair, and then sell it on competitor sites. That meant DAZ would have paid a lot of money to develop this system, and would make no money from those sales at a competitor. At least now it knows all dForce hair will be sold here.

    How are they preventing the PAs that sell at both sites (that's a lot of them) from selling their product elsewhere? This actually causes me to look for alternative rendering solutions that will allow me to create what I want, actually steering me away of Daz, instead of using it. The only cases where I will buy from competing sites, is when they offer something not sold at Daz (e.g. Nazi uniforms, what are my WW II American soldiers going to shoot at?), or when they offer something not offered here (e.g. birds). If they offer ample dForce hair products, people will keep buying them, regardless of what is sold elsewhere.
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,320

    DAZ bought their strand hair from a 3rd party as well.

    Given my experience with clothing dForce products and hw glacially slow it simulates, when it doesn't 'explode' or 'crash' DS outright, I won't be buying any dForce hair either. 

  • JuNeJuNe Posts: 87
    Richard Haseltine said:
    JuNe said:
    Tottallou said:

     

    missuskisses said:
    Wendy_Carrara said:

    Well I need to experiment but from what I can ascertain you can grow the tips without growing the roots so an obj export/import then making it Dforce surface and dialing the root surface stimulation strength to zero on head hairs at least should make them functional dfordeable hairs like Zbrush ones I have done are, I do find those painfully slow though and just about impossible for animations as they will chew all my RAM but so does readymade  Dforce stuff already existing and much of it explodes to boot.

    If you do figure it out and can post a short tutorial, I would be ever so grateful.

    I have to try again, but when I exported a strand hair to .obj file, what I reimported appeared to be nothing...

    To export as object you need to turn the Preview PR hairs on

    Since I have neither the time nor the guts to read through the whining... how can I turn on the Preview PR hairs? I'm completely new to the Garibaldi/SBH thing. *hands out some cheese*

    With the strand hair selected it's in the Parameters pane, I can't check the group just at the moment but it's spmething like Line Tessellation or Curve Tessellation.

    Thanks, found it :)

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