dForce Hair (as well as strand based hair and the strand based hair editor) in public beta

Siciliano1969

PhilW said:

@Siciliano1969 Yes I believe that you can export the full hair - be prepared for some huge files though as the fully tesselated hair (ie. turned into polygons) probably has tens of millions of polygons. That is why Strand Base and dForce Hair is so good, you can save and manipulate the strands at a much lower load on your system and it then converts that to polys for render. So it is a very efficient system. If you have the Octane plugin for Daz Studio, I understand that it works with that too.

Excellent, thanks Phil!

marth_e

This is nice but useless without the dforce addon. Nothing I can't already do with Zbrush's fibermesh or with Blender's hair system. 

L'Adair

marth.e said:

This is nice but useless without the dforce addon. Nothing I can't already do with Zbrush's fibermesh or with Blender's hair system. 

Useless for some, perhaps. But I don't use Blender, (the darn thing intimidates me!) and I have no way of justifying the cost of ZBrush, (or any other not-free modeling program.) So for me, and I suspect a host of other DS users, the Strand-Based Hair is anything but useless. However, like any other tool in Daz Studio, it's going to take a bit of time to learn.

I bought the Garibaldi plugin a month or two before the vendor made it free, but I never got around to trying it. I've had the LAMH plugin for years, and I've used it mainly for converting someone else's preset to fiber mesh, occasionally lengthening the hair first. I've created more hair with the Strand-Based Hair editor in one day, than in either of the two I paid for the entire time I've had them.

PhilW

marth.e said:

This is nice but useless without the dforce addon. Nothing I can't already do with Zbrush's fibermesh or with Blender's hair system. 

Can you load a figure, pose and clothe them and then add your own strand based hair all within either Zbrush or Blender? This is a great addition to Daz Studio which offers a great deal to many DS users, and for free. Sure there are strand based hair solutions in many other 3D programs (Carrara has had one for years!) but this is offering it in the program that lots of people choose to use and in a very user friendly interactive format. I am really excited about it and to see what people will do with it and believe it will take the realism of renders to a new level.

barbult

It's sure not useless to me! I'm having a great time with it. I appreciate it very much.

Joepingleton

Thank you, everyone, for all your kindness, inspiration and information.

You have inspired me to try another experiment with Strand Based Hair playing around with "Warg HD for Daz Dog 8" attempting to create a German Shepherd. I also explored layering different fur coats to create a more natural effect. In this experiment, I used information from the Wikipedia entry on fur to create a Down hair, Awn hair and Guard hair set of hairs, each with different hair style settings and densities. This allowed me to use a lot fewer hairs than my previous experiments and thus it requires fewer resources.  No post work

nonesuch00

Divamakeup said:

nonesuch00 said:

felis said:

nonesuch00 said:

Divamakeup said:

nonesuch00 said:

I think the strand hair is so far from finished RC 4.11 might not happen until December or later. It's an excellent start though and better than the two existing released plugins yet earnestly being able to style hair with it is mostly a non-starter.

I disagree - have you seen some of the hair that some of the users have been able to create with the strand based hair in this thread? :) Many of them look great, imo. 

Yes, I have seen them. I didn't say they what one 'could manage to style with the very limited tools was bad', I said the styling tools were too limited to release.

Well, I think the prime concern for Daz whether the PAs can make products that can be used by the customers in a good way.

Less whether the customers can create items of their own. Daz Studio is made as a tool for rendering your content - not primarily building your own. You have many tools within Daz Studio who are not easy to use by regular customers.

I think the market for what the styling tools can currently manage by even the most experienced and talented PA using them is very limited.  

"very limited"? The things being created with the styling tools by the community already (and it's still in beta) shows how the styling tools can create a wide range of things from hair, fur, thatched roofs, grass, stuffed animals, etc etc.

            

These are incredible tools.  And we have only scratched the surface in exploring these tools and what they're capable of. I think your definition of "very limited" might be hugely different than what "very limited" is generally defined as. lol :P I suspect we'll be seeing gorgeous inventions and creations with these tools being used in ways we haven't even considered yet. 

Yes, again, they're very nice but very limited. Limited does not equal bad and is even usually good, but well those hair styling tools are too limited. I want diversity and easy diversity in hair styles the way others want diversity in the DAZ base and PA characters. Everytime I drive the speed limit those with experience are limiting me in very intelligent and experienced ways. Limit is not a bad word, not artistically and not in other ways and it's a stylist reality with regards to the strand hair styling tools.

No worries, I've made feature requests so that the styling tools are not so limited and I encourage others to as well. Maybe we will get some of those features and maybe we won't but it doesnt hurt to ask. Don't misconstrue feature requests as complaints, I've happy with the new strand hair but that's no reason to dress in warm wool clothing in winter but then go outside in the snow in your bare feet.

PhilW

@Joepingleton you should seriously consider submitting that as a product, it looks terrific.

Eboshijaana

Joepingleton said:

Thank you, everyone, for all your kindness, inspiration and information.

You have inspired me to try another experiment with Strand Based Hair playing around with "Warg HD for Daz Dog 8" attempting to create a German Shepherd. I also explored layering different fur coats to create a more natural effect. In this experiment, I used information from the Wikipedia entry on fur to create a Down hair, Awn hair and Guard hair set of hairs, each with different hair style settings and densities. This allowed me to use a lot fewer hairs than my previous experiments and thus it requires fewer resources.  No post work

That is legit nice! Didn't think of doing that myself.

Can you share with us the preset for the fur or atleast the settings you used?

Joepingleton

.

Eboshijaana

So here is my (quick) try at multi layer fur; https://i.imgur.com/jDTbWJB.png

The clumping function, for some reason, is REALLY good at creating curls. So I used it for the undercoat.

The top layer of fur doesn't need to be that thick, so I put my custom reversed fur thickness map into reduce length and just made the fur really long in styling. I didn't remove the straggler hairs, thought XD

Generally, this might be good on a personal project, but I think any customer might not want to deal with multiple layers of fur.

Here are my custom fur length maps. The white one is fur reduce length.

 

Eustace Scrubb

Eboshijaana said:

So here is my (quick) try at multi layer fur; https://i.imgur.com/jDTbWJB.png

The clumping function, for some reason, is REALLY good at creating curls. So I used it for the undercoat.

The top layer of fur doesn't need to be that thick, so I put my custom reversed fur thickness map into reduce length and just made the fur really long in styling. I didn't remove the straggler hairs, thought XD

Generally, this might be good on a personal project, but I think any customer might not want to deal with multiple layers of fur.

Here are my custom fur length maps. The white one is fur reduce length.

 

Which beast are these for?  I don't have Dog 8, but I'd love to try 'em out!

Eboshijaana

Eustace Scrubb said:

Eboshijaana said:

So here is my (quick) try at multi layer fur; https://i.imgur.com/jDTbWJB.png

The clumping function, for some reason, is REALLY good at creating curls. So I used it for the undercoat.

The top layer of fur doesn't need to be that thick, so I put my custom reversed fur thickness map into reduce length and just made the fur really long in styling. I didn't remove the straggler hairs, thought XD

Generally, this might be good on a personal project, but I think any customer might not want to deal with multiple layers of fur.

Here are my custom fur length maps. The white one is fur reduce length.

 

Which beast are these for?  I don't have Dog 8, but I'd love to try 'em out!

Dog 8. Thought they aren't hard to make. Make a density map that is all black, then export it and with a mirrored mode in photoshop/gimp/etc. just paint the fur thickness from black to white. To do the reverse, just invert the colours.

Gone

You should be able to paint multiple density maps directly in the paint tab. Why use an external paint app if you don't need to?

Leonides02

Joepingleton said:

Thank you, everyone, for all your kindness, inspiration and information.

You have inspired me to try another experiment with Strand Based Hair playing around with "Warg HD for Daz Dog 8" attempting to create a German Shepherd. I also explored layering different fur coats to create a more natural effect. In this experiment, I used information from the Wikipedia entry on fur to create a Down hair, Awn hair and Guard hair set of hairs, each with different hair style settings and densities. This allowed me to use a lot fewer hairs than my previous experiments and thus it requires fewer resources.  No post work

This is stellar, Joe. The time you put into the mapping is very obvious. You have a real talent for making animal furs! I would love to buy products of yours if this is the kind of detail and realism we can expect. 

barbult

Joepingleton said:

Thank you, everyone, for all your kindness, inspiration and information.

You have inspired me to try another experiment with Strand Based Hair playing around with "Warg HD for Daz Dog 8" attempting to create a German Shepherd. I also explored layering different fur coats to create a more natural effect. In this experiment, I used information from the Wikipedia entry on fur to create a Down hair, Awn hair and Guard hair set of hairs, each with different hair style settings and densities. This allowed me to use a lot fewer hairs than my previous experiments and thus it requires fewer resources.  No post work

This really looks great. I commented on the gallery entry. When Dog 8 was released, some poses were released that had presets for a German Shepherd, but we never got one. I imagine it is waiting for the Strand-Based hair to be released. I bet yours is as good as what ever will (maybe) eventually be sold.

L'Adair

Gone said:

You should be able to paint multiple density maps directly in the paint tab. Why use an external paint app if you don't need to?

Personal preference, I imagine. I personally prefer using photoshop when precision is important to me.

Eboshijaana

Gone said:

You should be able to paint multiple density maps directly in the paint tab. Why use an external paint app if you don't need to?

Because the graphic program has better tools for exact details, a mirrored mode and you can use a selection tool to get larger areas easily.

The painter in the program hasn't got a good mirrored mode nor really a good rotation.

randy88

Curve Selection Sets have been improved to be able to add and delete in BATA 4.11.0.380. So I registered Pait and Curve Selection Sets in HairCap beforehand, and saved it as a template in Scene Subset. This way we can save time.

 

L'Adair

A new beta has been released. Not sure just when, but I suspect either Friday or today. Looks like all the changes in v 4.11.0.382 have to do with the Strand-Based/dForce Hair.

Eboshijaana

L'Adair said:

A new beta has been released. Not sure just when, but I suspect either Friday or today. Looks like all the changes in v 4.11.0.382 have to do with the Strand-Based/dForce Hair.

Just downloading it, will report changes.

namffuak

DoctorJellybean said:

Imago said:

The Beta still doesn't save the settings for Custom UVs in my scenes, they keep get reverted to Default at every scene loading.

It looks like it simply doesn't save the parameter's settings.

Fixed in the update which has been released today.

From the beta thread - for those taking notes, this is the reason it is important that as many of us as have time play with the new features inn a public beta.

katherinepoche_e11a5b0e7e

PhilW said:

I have just submitted my second dForce Hair, a thick and wavy drapeable style with lots of options, called Femme Fatale Hair. Here is a quick preview.

Phil, this is absolutely epic ... I don't care if I have to sell the TV .. I will buy this as soon as it hits the store!

Midnight_stories

What are the times like to render, faster than poly based hair ? The long hair looks a bit blocky like it needs more segments to smooth it out, but I guess it's a balance that needs to be learned

AllenArt

Midnight_stories said:

What are the times like to render, faster than poly based hair ? The long hair looks a bit blocky like it needs more segments to smooth it out, but I guess it's a balance that needs to be learned

In my experience so far, it takes a little longer to load the scene when starting a render than previously by a small amount, but once it gets started the differences are minimal.

Laurie

Midnight_stories

AllenArt said:

Midnight_stories said:

What are the times like to render, faster than poly based hair ? The long hair looks a bit blocky like it needs more segments to smooth it out, but I guess it's a balance that needs to be learned

In my experience so far, it takes a little longer to load the scene when starting a render than previously by a small amount, but once it gets started the differences are minimal.

Laurie

That's good I was afraid  there would be a heavy load on rendering, so it looks like this is going to be a good solution for hair and fur without killing the system !

PhilW

katherinepoche_e11a5b0e7e said:

PhilW said:

I have just submitted my second dForce Hair, a thick and wavy drapeable style with lots of options, called Femme Fatale Hair. Here is a quick preview.

 

Phil, this is absolutely epic ... I don't care if I have to sell the TV .. I will buy this as soon as it hits the store!

Thanks - I hope you don't have to sell your TV!

On render times compared with poly hair, yes there is a pause while the hair polys are loaded, there are typically a LOT, but because strand based hair does not use transparency maps (although it does typically use translucency) then the render times are reasonable. I wouldn't say fast, but they are OK.

Regarding any blockiness, users can adjust the number of segments that make up the hair (as well as the number/density of the hair, the thickness of each hair etc). Keep in mind that halving the segment length will double the total number of polys but if you need it, the option will be there for you.

PhilW

I managed to squeeze in a "just for fun" render of Bridget with Longdrape Hair using the Dark Roots material and one of the Shorten options, Casual Springtime dForce outfit. Just a little postwork editing for levels etc. I hope you like it.

deathbycanon

Joepingleton said:

Thank you, everyone, for all your kindness, inspiration and information.

You have inspired me to try another experiment with Strand Based Hair playing around with "Warg HD for Daz Dog 8" attempting to create a German Shepherd. I also explored layering different fur coats to create a more natural effect. In this experiment, I used information from the Wikipedia entry on fur to create a Down hair, Awn hair and Guard hair set of hairs, each with different hair style settings and densities. This allowed me to use a lot fewer hairs than my previous experiments and thus it requires fewer resources.  No post work

These are looking fantastic! Just wondering if there is a way to make the hair longer in some areas. Like the neck and chest area, britches, and tail, while keeping the rest a bit shorter. Many breeds have coat length variations. My long haired dachshund has much shorter hair that lays across his back, but long hair on the tail, legs, ears, and chest. Same with my border collie although not to the same extreme. 

AllenArt

deathbycanon said:

Joepingleton said:

Thank you, everyone, for all your kindness, inspiration and information.

You have inspired me to try another experiment with Strand Based Hair playing around with "Warg HD for Daz Dog 8" attempting to create a German Shepherd. I also explored layering different fur coats to create a more natural effect. In this experiment, I used information from the Wikipedia entry on fur to create a Down hair, Awn hair and Guard hair set of hairs, each with different hair style settings and densities. This allowed me to use a lot fewer hairs than my previous experiments and thus it requires fewer resources.  No post work

These are looking fantastic! Just wondering if there is a way to make the hair longer in some areas. Like the neck and chest area, britches, and tail, while keeping the rest a bit shorter. Many breeds have coat length variations. My long haired dachshund has much shorter hair that lays across his back, but long hair on the tail, legs, ears, and chest. Same with my border collie although not to the same extreme. 

There is. You can select groups of hairs and style them independently of the rest.

Laurie