Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.12.2.60! (*UPDATED*)

marble

Gordig said:

marble said:

Next question is regarding Filament. I can see how to use Filament in the viewport but not how to use it as a render engine. If I go to the Render Settings tab and click on "Engine" I am offered the same old choices with no Filament option.

Also with regard to filament, the lighting does not equate to the IRay lighting. If I use the settings that look ok in the IRay render, the Filament scene is too bright and washed out by excess light.

If you're using scene lights, you can go to the Filament draw settings (found in the Create menu) and change scene light scale. 

Incidentally, if you look in the Filament thread in the Commons, I posted a couple renders showing the opposite problem: a Filament screenshot where the character was in darkness, lit only by a dim spotlight, where the Iray render was drowning in light. 

Thanks - I'll look at those settings in a moment. 

I have double-checked and I still see the Filament version washed out be bright light if I stay with IRay light settings. I find that if I go into Tone Mapping and change the EV from the default 13 up to 14 then the lighting looks about right for Filament.

By the way, I figured out how to render to a window using Filament - the Engine setting needs to be "Viewport" (and the viewport mode needs to be Filament, obviously). 

marble

Gordig said:

marble said:

Next question is regarding Filament. I can see how to use Filament in the viewport but not how to use it as a render engine. If I go to the Render Settings tab and click on "Engine" I am offered the same old choices with no Filament option.

Also with regard to filament, the lighting does not equate to the IRay lighting. If I use the settings that look ok in the IRay render, the Filament scene is too bright and washed out by excess light.

If you're using scene lights, you can go to the Filament draw settings (found in the Create menu) and change scene light scale. 

 

I created the Filament Draw Settings node and played with the Scene Light Scale but it did nothing. However, I only had an HDRi for lighting so I added a spotlight and tried again - still no effect by changing the Scene Light Scale. What exactly is a scene light then?

Richard Haseltine

SpottedKitty said:

DoctorJellybean said:

3Diva said:

Where on earth did Tone Mapping and Environment settings go? They're gone from the Render Settings Tab.

Either start a render or use the Iray Viewport Drawstyle for a sec, Tone Mapping and Environments will appear as as well as nodes in the Scene pane.

Is there any particular reason for this change? Sounds a bit weird to me. Could it be to avoid the confusion I've seen some people having with figuring out how to use the Preferences>Scene>Render Settings tickboxes?

There are settings that affect both the Iray render/drawstyle and the Filament drawstyle, which means that depending on context they may be in Draw Settings or Render Settings. Having a node with the proeprties, which can be controlled through the Parameters pane, givs a more consistent way to handle the settings (and it also has logic since these are scene settings, so having them on a node that loads with the scene plays on that association). It's going to take soem getting used to, but it does have its reasons.

marble

Richard Haseltine said:

SpottedKitty said:

DoctorJellybean said:

3Diva said:

Where on earth did Tone Mapping and Environment settings go? They're gone from the Render Settings Tab.

Either start a render or use the Iray Viewport Drawstyle for a sec, Tone Mapping and Environments will appear as as well as nodes in the Scene pane.

Is there any particular reason for this change? Sounds a bit weird to me. Could it be to avoid the confusion I've seen some people having with figuring out how to use the Preferences>Scene>Render Settings tickboxes?

There are settings that affect both the Iray render/drawstyle and the Filament drawstyle, which means that depending on context they may be in Draw Settings or Render Settings. Having a node with the proeprties, which can be controlled through the Parameters pane, givs a more consistent way to handle the settings (and it also has logic since these are scene settings, so having them on a node that loads with the scene plays on that association). It's going to take soem getting used to, but it does have its reasons.

I'm already liking the nodes and being able to adjust in the Parameters without needing to switch tabs from Scene to Render Settings.

I've seen discussion of a Filament Preview mode but does that suggest there's a better quality Filament render mode? If so, how do I find it?

Richard Haseltine

marble said:

Richard Haseltine said:

SpottedKitty said:

DoctorJellybean said:

3Diva said:

Where on earth did Tone Mapping and Environment settings go? They're gone from the Render Settings Tab.

Either start a render or use the Iray Viewport Drawstyle for a sec, Tone Mapping and Environments will appear as as well as nodes in the Scene pane.

Is there any particular reason for this change? Sounds a bit weird to me. Could it be to avoid the confusion I've seen some people having with figuring out how to use the Preferences>Scene>Render Settings tickboxes?

There are settings that affect both the Iray render/drawstyle and the Filament drawstyle, which means that depending on context they may be in Draw Settings or Render Settings. Having a node with the proeprties, which can be controlled through the Parameters pane, givs a more consistent way to handle the settings (and it also has logic since these are scene settings, so having them on a node that loads with the scene plays on that association). It's going to take soem getting used to, but it does have its reasons.

I'm already liking the nodes and being able to adjust in the Parameters without needing to switch tabs from Scene to Render Settings.

I've seen discussion of a Filament Preview mode but does that suggest there's a better quality Filament render mode? If so, how do I find it?

It's a DrawStyle - like texture Sahded or Smooth Shaded. Preview mode isn't a thing, as such, but we tend to call the DrawStyle used for the Viewport a preview mode since it is previewing an approximation to the final render.

Sevrin

marble said:

Next question is regarding Filament. I can see how to use Filament in the viewport but not how to use it as a render engine. If I go to the Render Settings tab and click on "Engine" I am offered the same old choices with no Filament option.

Also with regard to filament, the lighting does not equate to the IRay lighting. If I use the settings that look ok in the IRay render, the Filament scene is too bright and washed out by excess light.

Set your draw settings to Filament, and select Viewport as your render engine.

As far as lighting, you either light for Iray or you light for Filament.

Taoz

DoctorJellybean said:

no__name said:

DoctorJellybean said:

no__name said:

Not sure if there much to add to be honest

1. load any scene/model

2. put an iray section plane

3. Hit Iray preview or render with Iray

4. Crash Iray after few iterations

It works just fine for me, whether it is Iray Preview or Iray render. Are your drivers up to date?

Yeah lastest 456.71.

You are on the new public build too 4.12.2.51?

Same build and driver versions.

Same here, and working fine (GTX 1070).

marble

Richard Haseltine said:

marble said:

Richard Haseltine said:

SpottedKitty said:

DoctorJellybean said:

3Diva said:

Where on earth did Tone Mapping and Environment settings go? They're gone from the Render Settings Tab.

Either start a render or use the Iray Viewport Drawstyle for a sec, Tone Mapping and Environments will appear as as well as nodes in the Scene pane.

Is there any particular reason for this change? Sounds a bit weird to me. Could it be to avoid the confusion I've seen some people having with figuring out how to use the Preferences>Scene>Render Settings tickboxes?

There are settings that affect both the Iray render/drawstyle and the Filament drawstyle, which means that depending on context they may be in Draw Settings or Render Settings. Having a node with the proeprties, which can be controlled through the Parameters pane, givs a more consistent way to handle the settings (and it also has logic since these are scene settings, so having them on a node that loads with the scene plays on that association). It's going to take soem getting used to, but it does have its reasons.

I'm already liking the nodes and being able to adjust in the Parameters without needing to switch tabs from Scene to Render Settings.

I've seen discussion of a Filament Preview mode but does that suggest there's a better quality Filament render mode? If so, how do I find it?

It's a DrawStyle - like texture Sahded or Smooth Shaded. Preview mode isn't a thing, as such, but we tend to call the DrawStyle used for the Viewport a preview mode since it is previewing an approximation to the final render.

Ok, so if I understand you correctly, there is no better quality render than what we see in the Viewport with Filament? I'm finding it a bit sensitive at the moment. I've had DAZ Studio crash a couple of times while trying out different things. Once selecting a different HDRi from the Content tab and again when tweaking the environment settings.

I was hoping that Filament might be on a par with Blender's Eevee but from what I see so far, I don't think it is.

marble

Sevrin said:

marble said:

Next question is regarding Filament. I can see how to use Filament in the viewport but not how to use it as a render engine. If I go to the Render Settings tab and click on "Engine" I am offered the same old choices with no Filament option.

Also with regard to filament, the lighting does not equate to the IRay lighting. If I use the settings that look ok in the IRay render, the Filament scene is too bright and washed out by excess light.

Set your draw settings to Filament, and select Viewport as your render engine.

As far as lighting, you either light for Iray or you light for Filament.

So if I am to render in IRay there's no advantage to using Filament in the viewport? Otherwise it would be a hassle to keep changing the lighting before I click render.

Sevrin

marble said:

Sevrin said:

marble said:

Next question is regarding Filament. I can see how to use Filament in the viewport but not how to use it as a render engine. If I go to the Render Settings tab and click on "Engine" I am offered the same old choices with no Filament option.

Also with regard to filament, the lighting does not equate to the IRay lighting. If I use the settings that look ok in the IRay render, the Filament scene is too bright and washed out by excess light.

Set your draw settings to Filament, and select Viewport as your render engine.

As far as lighting, you either light for Iray or you light for Filament.

So if I am to render in IRay there's no advantage to using Filament in the viewport? Otherwise it would be a hassle to keep changing the lighting before I click render.

Only you can judge how useful anything in DS is for what you want to accomplish.  All I know is that Iray's and Filament's lighting requirements are very different.  What is confusing to me is that you can't change tone mapping separately for the two render modes.  We'll have to see if that's going to change.  This is a beta release, so we can still hope that nothing is set in stone.  

I hope Daz is following the discussions and paying attention to the concerns users have about Filament.  I sure hope they had something clearly in mind when they added it to Daz Studio.  I really hope that Daz will share their thinking with the rest of us, and do so in great detail.  If not, a lot of effort will have gone to waste.

Imago

New version of DAZ Studio, new stunning features, old unsolved bugs keeping us company since a year now. The Filament draw style looks great and works perfectly on my system but the timeline is still broken and unusable.   At this point I'm resigned to stray stuck on 4.12.0.86 for the rest of my life if I want to keep making animations and some times use the beta "to see but not touch" the new features.

About Filament, it is going to be a full fledged render engine or it will stay just a Draw Style?

The RED Crown

I don't use animation in Studio Daz .
The program does not have a strong platform for performance in motion graphics to take its place in the world of animation .

If you want to jump into Version 5 ,
You must prepare to take your position strongly .

kyoto kid

...is there a change log for the 4.12.2.51? public build  The latest feature update I can find is for the 4.12.2.50 private build.

nonesuch00

There is one another bug: See this thread. Ticket I've submitted is #349420.

DoctorJellybean

kyoto kid said:

...is there a change log for the 4.12.2.51? public build  The latest feature update I can find is for the 4.12.2.50 private build.

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#4_12_2_51

VEGA

The new Environment Node and Tonemaping Nodes present in the scene are fine as the main focus was to be able to animate those with keyframes, which was not possible in the past. One thing that is kinda bad is that Tonemaping tab disappeared from Render Window, which is kinda tedious to pause the render, change the tonemaping and then resume it back to see the effect. In the previous version it worked during the rendering runtime.

achims

Imago said:

New version of DAZ Studio, new stunning features, old unsolved bugs keeping us company since a year now. The Filament draw style looks great and works perfectly on my system but the timeline is still broken and unusable.   At this point I'm resigned to stray stuck on 4.12.0.86 for the rest of my life if I want to keep making animations and some times use the beta "to see but not touch" the new features.

About Filament, it is going to be a full fledged render engine or it will stay just a Draw Style?

Filament is not a "draw style", its already a "full fledged" PBR render engine. https://google.github.io/filament

It has absolutely nothing to do with 3delight or IRAY.   

no__name

no__name said:

If it can help you and thanks to other users, I could fix the problem and it was not drivers but was skin material related on my side.

I precise I could render just fine as long as the scene didn't have any Iray section plane (that's what make it weird lol). And I have zero problem with others Daz builds and that skin material.

If it's the same problem, try to test with the g8f dev model and an Iray section plane, and see if Iray crash again.

 

I think I isolated the problem I got with Iray Section plane and Iray crashs.

As lot of people I sometime use Iray interior cam, it's a normal camera 'mounted' with 5 Iray section planes to cut trough everything that is not in view of the camera.

As soon I use it on a scene with a model with Out-Of-Touch hairs (Marigold, Mega updo, may be shader related), it crashs Iray after few iterations. But it also crash with just a single Iray section plane too - not just with the Iray interior cam.

Maybe someone can confirm this? Thanks.

Sevrin

VEGA said:

One thing that is kinda bad is that Tonemaping tab disappeared from Render Window, which is kinda tedious to pause the render, change the tonemaping and then resume it back to see the effect. In the previous version it worked during the rendering runtime.

Yeah, I noticed that, too.  IDK why they removed it from the render window.

VEGA

Sevrin said:

VEGA said:

One thing that is kinda bad is that Tonemaping tab disappeared from Render Window, which is kinda tedious to pause the render, change the tonemaping and then resume it back to see the effect. In the previous version it worked during the rendering runtime.

Yeah, I noticed that, too.  IDK why they removed it from the render window.

Me neither, also Nvidia Denoiser seems to be "dead". Enabling it before the rendering or even during it, which was not possible before btw, doesn't do anything.

Richard Haseltine

Imago said:

New version of DAZ Studio, new stunning features, old unsolved bugs keeping us company since a year now. The Filament draw style looks great and works perfectly on my system but the timeline is still broken and unusable.   At this point I'm resigned to stray stuck on 4.12.0.86 for the rest of my life if I want to keep making animations and some times use the beta "to see but not touch" the new features.

About Filament, it is going to be a full fledged render engine or it will stay just a Draw Style?

If you check the change log you will see that a number of Timeline bugs have been addressed, including the oen that was losing keys in saved scenes. Others may well still be pending - it depends on the bug's impact on users and the fix's impact on DS (some chnages have more far reaching implications, and so are potentially higher risk, than others). Not yet fixed doesn't mean ignored.

PDSmith

I've been tolling the forum for the last few months, but this change of the Enviromental options and Tonemapping options, the whole move process was a bad and ill thought out idea.  I think this is one that needs to be rolled back. 

I for one want it in the inital set up when I start a new scene, adding steps to the process is much like DeviantArt's new Eclipse,  Same process to do things, more steps.  

 

Remember our grandparents had a phrase they taught us? KISS.  Keep it simple.

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/keep-it-simple-stupid

Adding steps to add it in or have Studio (later) add it in is counter to that process.

 

Sevrin

VEGA said:

Sevrin said:

VEGA said:

One thing that is kinda bad is that Tonemaping tab disappeared from Render Window, which is kinda tedious to pause the render, change the tonemaping and then resume it back to see the effect. In the previous version it worked during the rendering runtime.

Yeah, I noticed that, too.  IDK why they removed it from the render window.

 

Me neither, also Nvidia Denoiser seems to be "dead". Enabling it before the rendering or even during it, which was not possible before btw, doesn't do anything.

I just got through trying that myself.  Enabling the Denoiser before hitting Render does work, but enabling it during does not. 

Before, you could not make it Available during rendering, but turning on Enable during renders did work.  Now there's a button to make it Available, but neither it nor the Enable button have any effect during rendering.

VEGA

PDSmith said:

I've been tolling the forum for the last few months, but this change of the Enviromental options and Tonemapping options, the whole move process was a bad and ill thought out idea.  I think this is one that needs to be rolled back. 

I for one want it in the inital set up when I start a new scene, adding steps to the process is much like DeviantArt's new Eclipse,  Same process to do things, more steps.  

 

Remember our grandparents had a phrase they taught us? KISS.  Keep it simple.

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/keep-it-simple-stupid

Adding steps to add it in or have Studio (later) add it in is counter to that process.

 

Whole purpose of having it as a node is to be able to animate it (add keyframes). Now it's possible to animate dome rotations, sunlight time, exposure etc. It has to be like this, because timeline works with scene objects. 

PDSmith

VEGA said:

PDSmith said:

I've been tolling the forum for the last few months, but this change of the Enviromental options and Tonemapping options, the whole move process was a bad and ill thought out idea.  I think this is one that needs to be rolled back. 

I for one want it in the inital set up when I start a new scene, adding steps to the process is much like DeviantArt's new Eclipse,  Same process to do things, more steps.  

 

Remember our grandparents had a phrase they taught us? KISS.  Keep it simple.

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/keep-it-simple-stupid

Adding steps to add it in or have Studio (later) add it in is counter to that process.

 

Whole purpose of having it as a node is to be able to animate it (add keyframes). Now it's possible to animate dome rotations, sunlight time, exposure etc. It has to be like this, because timeline works with scene objects. 

Then, plane and simple, like a very large and significant but yet quiet group, give us a Studio without animations, don't make non-animators go extra steps for what has been a standard since Iray's inception.

KISS; every programmer and engineer should have that plastered to their desks. 

Leana

PDSmith said:

VEGA said:

PDSmith said:

I've been tolling the forum for the last few months, but this change of the Enviromental options and Tonemapping options, the whole move process was a bad and ill thought out idea.  I think this is one that needs to be rolled back. 

I for one want it in the inital set up when I start a new scene, adding steps to the process is much like DeviantArt's new Eclipse,  Same process to do things, more steps.  

 

Remember our grandparents had a phrase they taught us? KISS.  Keep it simple.

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/keep-it-simple-stupid

Adding steps to add it in or have Studio (later) add it in is counter to that process.

 

Whole purpose of having it as a node is to be able to animate it (add keyframes). Now it's possible to animate dome rotations, sunlight time, exposure etc. It has to be like this, because timeline works with scene objects. 

Then, plane and simple, like a very large and significant but yet quiet group, give us a Studio without animations, don't make non-animators go extra steps for what has been a standard since Iray's inception.

KISS; every programmer and engineer should have that plastered to their desks. 

Having one version of DS with animation and one without is definitely not KISS from a programming point of view.

VEGA

PDSmith said:

VEGA said:

PDSmith said:

I've been tolling the forum for the last few months, but this change of the Enviromental options and Tonemapping options, the whole move process was a bad and ill thought out idea.  I think this is one that needs to be rolled back. 

I for one want it in the inital set up when I start a new scene, adding steps to the process is much like DeviantArt's new Eclipse,  Same process to do things, more steps.  

 

Remember our grandparents had a phrase they taught us? KISS.  Keep it simple.

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/keep-it-simple-stupid

Adding steps to add it in or have Studio (later) add it in is counter to that process.

 

Whole purpose of having it as a node is to be able to animate it (add keyframes). Now it's possible to animate dome rotations, sunlight time, exposure etc. It has to be like this, because timeline works with scene objects. 

Then, plane and simple, like a very large and significant but yet quiet group, give us a Studio without animations, don't make non-animators go extra steps for what has been a standard since Iray's inception.

KISS; every programmer and engineer should have that plastered to their desks. 

I'm not the developer, maybe the better way of doing it would be adding an option to create these nodes instead of forcing it to every scene. So if you don't want to use it for animation you wouldn't see it in a scene content and if you want to just simply create it and that would copy the current scene settings and make it as it is now.

Sevrin

Leana said:

PDSmith said:

VEGA said:

PDSmith said:

I've been tolling the forum for the last few months, but this change of the Enviromental options and Tonemapping options, the whole move process was a bad and ill thought out idea.  I think this is one that needs to be rolled back. 

I for one want it in the inital set up when I start a new scene, adding steps to the process is much like DeviantArt's new Eclipse,  Same process to do things, more steps.  

 

Remember our grandparents had a phrase they taught us? KISS.  Keep it simple.

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/keep-it-simple-stupid

Adding steps to add it in or have Studio (later) add it in is counter to that process.

 

Whole purpose of having it as a node is to be able to animate it (add keyframes). Now it's possible to animate dome rotations, sunlight time, exposure etc. It has to be like this, because timeline works with scene objects. 

Then, plane and simple, like a very large and significant but yet quiet group, give us a Studio without animations, don't make non-animators go extra steps for what has been a standard since Iray's inception.

KISS; every programmer and engineer should have that plastered to their desks. 

Having one version of DS with animation and one without is definitely not KISS from a programming point of view.

Yeah, it makes no sense.  We use animation to dForce garments for still images, so splitting off the animation would turn that into a nightmare.

DoctorJellybean

Sevrin said:

VEGA said:

One thing that is kinda bad is that Tonemaping tab disappeared from Render Window, which is kinda tedious to pause the render, change the tonemaping and then resume it back to see the effect. In the previous version it worked during the rendering runtime.

Yeah, I noticed that, too.  IDK why they removed it from the render window.

According to the Change Log, it is being fixed.

Richard Haseltine

VEGA said:

PDSmith said:

I've been tolling the forum for the last few months, but this change of the Enviromental options and Tonemapping options, the whole move process was a bad and ill thought out idea.  I think this is one that needs to be rolled back. 

I for one want it in the inital set up when I start a new scene, adding steps to the process is much like DeviantArt's new Eclipse,  Same process to do things, more steps.  

 

Remember our grandparents had a phrase they taught us? KISS.  Keep it simple.

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/keep-it-simple-stupid

Adding steps to add it in or have Studio (later) add it in is counter to that process.

 

Whole purpose of having it as a node is to be able to animate it (add keyframes). Now it's possible to animate dome rotations, sunlight time, exposure etc. It has to be like this, because timeline works with scene objects. 

I don't think it's been said that that was the whole purpose, but it's no doubt a welcome fact.