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Hey Chevybabe, here is something important: The new NVidia drivers did not only do the trick on the rendering, but the above problem seems to be gone as well. So it probably was/is a driver issue. What I also find interesting is that your hairs appear under "Head" in the Scene tab, and not as most others separately below the character.
My previous drivers were from late November or early December, i think. The new ones are from this January: 441.87 WHQL
Excellent!!! Glad that is sorted!!! Very strange nonetheless.
As for my hairs vs the other hair.. The strand hair is a whole new animal and an updo that can sim puts a whole new spin on it. To prevent distortion in the braids and tails the skullcap had to be parented to the head and then everything else was parented to the cap. Another reason why I felt it was important to put out a forum thread with general information ;) I knew it would throw some people for a loop.
Same version as arne207; I have a couple of other Beta's I can try it on if need-be - let me know.
https://www.daz3d.com/anakku-for-genesis-8-female
and
https://www.daz3d.com/zoe-for-karyssa-8
are two examples.
Just gone through all characters (and I have far more than I realised, which is an entirely different issue Haha); any character that scales the character down (it's harder to tell if up has any effect), is a possible, but many don't. Using the scale slider itself doesn't cause any issue.
Zoe is a good example as dialling in to 100 causes issues, yet dialling out the head only reduces it slightly.
Just dialling in heads, it is easy to get issues, but as said, many don't cause much if any.
Edit for image
Nic have you updated your drivers? Still trying to find a common reason for this weirdness.
Ha! Nope as that causes issues with crashes during rendering; I'm on a currently stable version.
Any ideas why both hairs every time I try to render crashes my computer completely? This happens with even a basic g8f and just the hair.
Nothing in the log files.
Maybe try lower your render tesselate down to 2 or even 1 from default of 3 (see image below).
Finding the GB ram usage of all SBH hair is "demanding". Also, am starting to think there may be something else going on with tesselate calculations that causes my win7/RTX2080ti/64GB system ram to have toubles at times, so my computer crashes to power off. For example, comparing this dF SBH hair with previous translucency hair, the system RAM memory usage was 17gb (2nd image for what needed 17GB) Versus way under 10gb system Ram usage during render. Changing to render tesselate of 2 dropped this down to about 11GB. Changing the PS/PR number values I got down to 9.7GB at Render-tesselate 2 setting. Render Tesselate 1 is not really an option cos it doesn't look good enough anymore. But in scenes with multiple characters I still find SBH hair crashy, even with all my tweaks. Make me very sad.
And am actually REALLY sad-eyed looking at the Double-dutch cos I bought CJ with the express view of using them together in mulit-character scenes.
I gave up today for now with all SBH hair (tested several SBH and all have this issue)....FOR use in multi-character scenes tho I have a pretty beefy computer.
Yeah! Thanks Saxa that worked for both hairs.
I am not sure how that happened but the viewport line tesselation sides does not need to even be on. You can also go into your paramters tab and shut off preview pr and ps hairs too off which will also save a ton of memory.
Hey Chevybabe, seems like I spoke too soon - the issue with the cap and the detached hair came back (in a way).
Reloading a saved scene reproduced it, along with another bug - CJs eyes could still be posed, but the three colored ring-shaped indicators didn't move anymore. I set up the scene anew and overwrote the save. Now it seems ok. Weird, maybe something with the figure rather than your hairs.
I got to play around with both and love them! Would love to see a straight and long hairstyle from you, like OOTs Amber or AprilYSHs Leyton.
Hey arne
Thanks for the kind words and the suggestions :) Im always looking for ideas! Glad to hear you were able to try them out too!
I am at a loss why the hairs would behave so wonky for some people. I have asked Daz to look into it for me and see if they can figure out what is going on..I will forward a link to this thread to them too.
Would be very interested to hear how many multi-character scenes Daz can render with various dF SBH hair and what PC specs they have. And since this was released with render tesselate of 3, Daz should be testing at that level to be fair.
Double Dutch is a new favorite.
You did a great job with it. And every day I stare at it cos I dare not use in multi-character scenes, as one person fashion renders are not my thing.
Thanks Saxa :)
I can't imagine it would be all that many. SBH hair is much lighter than fibermesh but it can still be heavy on resources. What you can do as I mentioned before, is change the viewport tesselation sides to 0. You can turn down the the render tesselation sides down to 1 ( though it may not be as pretty), and you can shut off preview ps hairs and preview pr hairs in the parameters tab.
If the characters are further in the background, you could play with the size of the hairs and cutting down on how many you actually need to render. Most of the surfaces I believe are set to .09 and .03 for start line width and end line width. You could increase the size to at least .12 and .09, and change the ps hairs for those surfaces from 10 to something like 6 ( thats just a rough guess on how many you would need). Less hair, less resources, and the further they are in the background, the more you can get away with. You could even go higher than what i mentioned, but you will just have to play with it to find whats best for your scenes and your computer.
First off, thanks for the thread. the first post is very informative. I am a HUGE dforce hair user (cloth based, not strand based). I have all of Lindays hairs and they are pretty much all I use. I do lots of more extreme, dynamic poses with my renders, so movement is very important. I have a couple of PhilWs SB hairs and like the movement, but they are kind of blocky, so I am still trying to find solutions to make them look better.
based on this thread I just picked up the Double Dutch Braids. My first thought when I saw it was why would I need a dforce hair when it's an updo with little movement since movement is the whole point of dforce hair IMO, but it's looked good, so I thought I would give it a shot. My first impressions haven't been good unfortunately. I loaded up a fresh GF8 and then the hair. Looked at the options and opted for the most movement of the bangs and tails. Tilted the head down and to the right to see how much movement there is and unfortuinately there isn't that much. The bangs stop short of a realistic drape as do the tails. I increased the sim time to 4 and gravity to full, but that didn't help. I know from discussions with lady Littlefox and her dforce hair with the same limitations that this might be able to be editted, but that is beyond my skill set for now. The added movement morphs are a nice touch, but they don't help with the drape and in most cases make it worse since the sim only moves the hair so far and when finished it's left hanging in mid air.
In addition to the amount it can be dforced, I did notice whisps of hair sticking inside the cheeks and forehead which is typical with dforce items that start out intersecting with mesh. An animated drape solved most of that but it would be good in the future for hair to be more open and away from the mesh before the simulation for best effect without an animated drape.
i also had artifacts on the neck and head from the skull cap and had to add a smoothing modifier to solve that.
I love the idea of SHB and want to be a fanboy also, since it usually is less resource intensive than cloth based, but unless I can lay my figures head on a pillow and have the bangs and tail drape realistically around the head while laying there this hair is pretty much useless for me and my uses. An added option for more sim movement would be very welcome if possible.
if PAs creating sim based hair don't have options for complete movement during a drape/simulation, this should be listed in the description so users can see the limitations before purchasing. I am sure I am not the only one that equates dforce with movement
ok.. FSMC More information coming :)
I didn't include too many presets so that I wouldn't confuse newer users. I wanted to make it as easy and painless as possible :)
If you want the hair to sim more in certain areas.. say the bangs:
Click on the surface of the bangs, and change the ps points to something much much higher. I don't remember off the top of my head how high it was originally set at 20 maybe? - but if you want lots of draping, change it to something like 60. And see how that helps. If you lose too much shape of the hair but it still doesn't drape the way you want, you can change the Local Shape Constraint Stiffness. The lower it is.. the more it will also drape. Just like with cloth this is a process of trial and error.. if the tips are too stiff looking and you want those to spread out more during drape, you can also adjust the Local Shape Constraint Tip Stiffness.
As you have mentioned with intersecting: This was one of those demons I had to personally fight while packaging this set. Do I set it up so the average user can use it as is? Or do I set it up so that the average user has to dforce it? So I left it to be used as is and felt that using a sim could be left to users that felt more comfortable with the dynamics part. It is absolutely best practice to move the hair away from areas it will intersect with before doing a simulation. However, if you forget and you just ran a sim for 3 hours, you can still use those morphs to adjust it..which I find amazing.
Please give it a chance and try the above options - it really is amazing with a litle knowledge :)
Wow, thanks for the reply and your suggestions made a world of difference in movement. Of course it introduced a bigger issue with the hair intersecting with the mesh, mainly the ends of the back bangs that were already intersecting with the head, but since the hair is parented and not fitted, i was able to start an animated drape above the head and that made it a lot better along with the help of the added morphs. I have to say your settings made it so much more usable and I am thankful!
I totally understand the balance between settings for new users and advanced users. Can't count how mant times I have seen posts from new users of Lindays hair wondering how to pose it, LOL Personally i don't feel dforce hair should be sold to be used as is, but I guess it helps sales when it caters to a broader customer base. I am all for having it load away from the mesh and fully ready for simulation as opposed to loading being able to use as is or not..IMO if it is labled DFORCE than that is what it is and what should be used to get the best results
Thanks again and look forward to more SBH from you!
You are so very welcome Michael :) I am glad it is solved!
I think it was such a good problem that i will go back and edit the post at the beginning so all that info is also where everyone needs it. I had almost added this to begin with but with this being such new tech - I was afraid that I would overwhelm those that are hesitant to get on board.
It's easy to ignore information when there is too much, but Studio makes it difficult to find it at the best of times.
I tend to bookmark posts that provide info, and refer to them as needed.
Sooo true Nic.
Was just playing around with it again and one thing i am seeing is once the simulation is run, the file size when the scene is saved is huge, almost 3 gigs. I saved a copy with a fresh install of the hair and no simulation and it came out to a saved file of 45 mb, so something is wonky. I tried the same scene and swapped out the hair for another sim based hair (PhilW). Saved a copy with it simmed and unsimmed and the simmed file was only 76 mb and the unsimmed 39. Any ideas why it is saving out such a huge file size after the simulation is run?
Michael off the top of my head I have no idea. I will ask and see if I can get some answers.. that's pretty hefty.
Thanks. hope there is a solution, the file sizes can really add up like this.
You are very welcome :) Yeah you are not kidding.
So any hints as to the next styles you are looking at doing? I'd love a high ponytail, with optional wisps and bangs, just saying
Did you make any changes to the hair?
Find when I make changes to any items that I have to re-save as a figure/prop asset, so that the scene refers to that asset ...as opposed to resaving the whole asset in your scene file.
as noted in my earlier post, I did change some parameters for more movement. Will test that out and see what difference it makes. thanks for the info.
a hint .......something soft and curly :)
OO I need pictures and I will add it to my pinterest ideas!
While working on another project, I realized that I have one more thing I have forgot to mention about how this hair parents.. and maybe this will solve some other problems in the future. If you are like me and use a lot of the morphs and then decide to clear it out by doing figure:restore figure.. you will also need to restore a hidden option in the parameters tab Disable Target Surface Transforms back to the ON position. I feel like this shouldn't just restore to off when clearing out morphs but studio apparently does. Or you can just delete the hair and load in a fresh one.
do your backlight hair shaders work well with your strand-based hair?
the first thing i do after fitting hair to a character these days is backlight it.
:)
j