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Kids 4 is a nightmare. They look like dolls, not kids. And support for them is non-existant. Almost as bad as poor Luke.
Kids4 suffered from a short cycle. They were one of the last of the gen4 releases and Genesis 1 superceeded them after no more than a year or thereabouts. G1 came with a child morph which was pretty much identical to the K4 base, and could use any K4 clothing that was out there. But once the child "base" became just a morph of the standard G1 base, most developers stopped creating specific clothing for it.
K4 got some decent support at release, and a bit more during its period, but it never had the time to build any traction the way the gen3 kids had.
The comparable of Kids 4 to V4 would be stand alone kids.
Perhaps try Leon and Teena https://www.daz3d.com/vyusur
There are a number of them already out there if you look. Mar3d at Rendo has made multiple unique kid/young adult morph sets for both genders in G2, G3 and G8, Deepsea has made two excellent young boys for G3M and G8M here at DAZ that don't require Growing Up, and SF-Design has a number of original young male and female morph sets spread between the two sites, and there are other vendors who have made one-off original kids as well for various generations.
The problem with phrasing things as you have isn't that you're "brutal", but rather that the message I'd get as a PA is that if you're not satisfied with anything that's been in the store, ever, then you're probably not going to be satisfied with anything new anybody else makes either. The squeaky wheel may get the grease, but you also catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar. And seriously, you don't think this looks like a normal kid? - https://www.daz3d.com/lola-s-son-for-genesis-3-male ? 'cause it's the spitting image of my nephew when he was that age.
..the downside is clothing as they are not compatible with autofit so you have to do a lot of manual fitting or have a decent modelling talent or be able to afford an MD licence..
I've received a reply from Daz Help Center. They told me that they'll pass the request to the QA Team, but they can't guarantee it'll be implemented. I requested a "The Kids 8" Line which inlcudes Characters, Skin Materials, Clothing, Expressions, Poses and Props (exactly the made with the Kids 4 Line some years ago). I really hope this request is taken on.
I do not see why we need * Kids 8 * when there are so many ways now to change Generation 8 Figures into Children.
I would be more interested in clothing for children, as there are, in my humble opinion, not enough.
The option of having them hurts nothing.
Not to mention that a release of Kids 8 would spur on the creation of a bunch of new kids' clothes.
Maybe. Maybe not. After all, everytime there's a new teen/tween figure we're lucky to get a couple of new sets of teen or tween appropriate clothes and then it's right back to the usual. I won't even bother to point out all of the new infant clothes that have been introduced to the store since the baby bundle was released... on account of I can't find any. And since folks in this thread keep referencing the Kids 4, just how many outfits were ever made for them? By my count there are currently 58 Kids 4 outfits in total in the store, most of which were made by DAZ rather than PAs, so less than 30 per gender. That doesn't really hint at a booming interest from either customers or PAs.
Exactly!
In the day, i.e., before the release of about G3, there were a few vendors over on Rendo who did at least a somewhat more than token support of K4, which could usually be autofit to G1 without much futzing with it. Unfortuinately, once sales taper off at Rendo a product is put on clearance, which genrally turns into disappearance before all that long.
There always probably will be much less of a demand for juvenile figures than adult figures. But there is at least a small demand, and it's probably not going to go away, although it probably won't grow much either. And yes, thanks to Zev0 and a few other sources we can generally roll our own to a fairly high degree, even if DAZ isn't being forthcomming with a current base morph.
However, there is a real shortage of support content for kid figures. I'd happily snap up a bundle of deliberately kid-oriented clothing (rather than possible make-dos), or would love to see refits of some of the really nice ones which were released back in 2010 with K4. Esha did some really nice things, and there were some historic and ethinic things released in the PC collection for them as well. But I don't think there's been much for pre-G3 figures in the past five years.
ETA: This is G1 with the basic child morph and a freebie character morph called Clara which I'm pretty sure I found on ShareCG backaround the time G1 came out.
The bonnet was from the Bonnie clothes set which may still be in the store here. The outfit is actually one for NearMe. Some of her things turned out to be usable with Scampixie Pranx, K4 and the G1 basic child, although one ended up having to use Poke-away fairly strenuously to clear the poke-through. I would like to see an update of something in the same general style. With dForce it oughtn't to be all that difficult -- although I'd like to have it work as conforming for most things.
...yeah I'll likely just stick to pushing the morph boundaries as much as I can. Unfortunately the clothing issue is a real bother. There seem to be more appropriate hair styles than clothing for the younger set, particularly female characters.
I too would love to see Kids 8 along with content for them. I use the K4 a bunch because I do illustrations for children's books.
So, I would be happy as can be to see a new line of kids, characters, clothing and all!
Not if they don't sell well.
depends, this is a very small market with finite resources and creators and as such PAs need to carefully decide what they are going to create and having to create a KIDS 8 package would take away from development of something else, maybe something that more users would be interested in, thus limiting sales and income.
Even though I have zero use for any kids figures, I am not against having them in the store, but with so many other things I would be more interested in having instead I can't help but wonder if creating a kids package would take away from the items i would be more intersted in, guess we'll see in the future.
legally it might soon be not possible to buy 3D children
they already are banning full sized lifelike dolls
because of sick individuals
there are realistic doll collectors and childless infertile people who actually use dolls as substitutes to dress and talk to for comfort but the sick people who have other uses ruin it for everyone.
it's not a topic we can really discuss and one I find utterly disgusting
I simply will not render realistic children at all myself only toons doing very innocent stuff like play and dance fully dressed
but we are kidding ourselves no pun intended if we think people don't use 3D assets to produce horrible stuff
and law makers look at that and blanket ban everything
You kind of have it backwards. It's not a question of what anyone NEEDS more. It's a question of what people will actually PAY for. And that is not the same thing. The majority of people who get into this hobby don't buy a tremendous amount of product, but there are category types that people are far more likely to buy, and for a PA, most of whom put out a single product a month or less, you're far more likely to get a bunch of purchases if you're working in those categories. PAs don't make that much per sale, so they have to sell a lot of something to keep doing it. Remember, when DAZ started out they did make a full lines of figures ranging from kids to adults for several generations of product, and the same was true of several generations of Poser figures. Given that BOTH companies stopped doing that, and that Hivewire hasn't picked up the ball, I'd say that's a pretty good indication that there's just not enough track record of people actually buying the products that do get made to make it a priority.
Most of 3DU and Thorne's products are great for illustrating kids so maybe that's why they haven't done a Kids 8. I know people are looking for more realism, but most kids illustrations don't really require realism. I'm not really sure why people need such absolute realism unless they are trying to fool people into thinking it's a photo.
Users who strive for "realism" want photo realism. It's the reason they also complain about poorly constructed clothing, unrealistic hair, and "symmetrical" faces. Adding some stylized child into their render ruins this too.
The same thing people want out of 2D art. The more lifelike, the better. (Even though that's not what makes art good.)
more often than not the reason people want that photorealistic rendering is the very same reason I wouldn't want it for child figures, it's not usually for fine art purposes or illustration
and the reason I am posting this is because I don't want to have that sort of art produced, toonish stuff suffices for innocent reasons, don't be an enabler
...all I am really wanting is more common everyday clothing and footwear (the latter in the case of female characters) that is more appropriate to use with younger characters. It doesn't have to specifically be "kids" clothing per-se, just "reasonable".
That said, time to bail considering where this seems to be heading.
Remember how people kept asking for a new Aiko (not the weird Final Fantasy Aikos) or Keiko? And some people were saying they wouldn't sell in a Iray focused store? Then Sakura 8 came along and the store totally blew up with all sorts of anime content? Things must have gone pretty well, since we got more anime inspired Daz Originals after that, like Kanade. Dude...we even got the ultra rare MALE anime character that hasn't been seen since Hiro 5! I believe that goes to show just how popular and influential Sakura 8 was.
Remember that?
I really don't think the old "it wont sell" ideology applies here. People who bring this up are talking about the Kids 4, that was back in prehistoric ages for Daz, a dark period of history before Iray shown its light on stage. It was so long ago that even Pepperidge Farm Remembers was still a fresh meme. Are we really going to say that nothing has changed in the years since then? Because if that is the case...that would actually be really sad for this store.
I would say times do change. This store has grown. The customer base has evolved, even though certain characters still sell very well, there is now more room for other characters. What might not have sold in the past just might sell now.
But obviously they sell, because 3DU has entire libraries of child characters which shoot straight to the top of the What's Hot list when they release, and quick peaks at Rendo show multiple Angelwings characters in their "What's Hot" lists. And in the AW case, these characters are not even new!
The point being, they quite clearly do sell.
One word: Iray.
Iray changes things, and yes people do want to make pictures that border on photo real, we have entire thread discussions covering this topic all the time. A lot of people strive for it.
As for 3DU and Thorne covering this area, just like the anime characters I discussed above, we have a lot of anime-ish characters in the store now, but still we got Daz Original ones. A Daz Original Kids 8 would very likely sell well IMO.
IF IT IS DONE WELL. I just want to stress that. If they look like the soul destroying Daz Babies then please don't bother.
The crazy part is that I say all of this when I actually have little need for a Kids 8. However if a Kids 8 did release and it was done well, I might buy it. It certainly wouldn't hurt to have some proper realistic kids for renders.
Nope. And it's kind of hard to imagine given there's been there's ALWAYS been at least one major official anime style character in every generation since Aiko 3, so 'm kind wondering what you're remembering. Genesis had Hitomi, as well as Aiko 5 and an Aiko 3 morph. Genesis 2 had Keiko and Callie. Genesis 3 had Star 2.0, who got her own official bundle AND a fit morph for original Star clothing. And that's not counting all the various third party toon figures that have continued to sell well in the store non-stop. The fact is that there's NEVER been a time when anime and toon style girls haven't sold really well here, and there's always been a ton of anime stuff. Hell, just count the number of schoolgirl and loli-maid outfits for each generation.
Now, did people gripe that AIKO didn't look like Aiko 3 anymore? Oh, yes they did. Have they grumbled about the disappearance of Hiro? Yep. Constantly. But claiming that Sakura was a sudden revelation or a complete about face from DAZ and the PAs is a pretty ridiculous stretch.