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So, what you just said, even while you're saying that it would sell well, is that you only MIGHT buy it even if it was done perfectly, because you have no use for it. If I was PA, I'd chalk that up as a probable "no sale" and go back to making the usual pretty girl stuff. As for DAZ, they recently caved and gave us a Dog 8... which everybody complained about and how much new Dog stuff ultimately got made? In the long run, the thing that drives this market is actual purchases, and you're asking PAs to gamble their livelihood on a product that you don't even want to buy.
Re: Daz dog-- the very fact that the breeds were so limited also limited the sales. If they had made puppies, and small cute fluffy breeds with dforce fur, I'm sure there would have been more sales. There are only 5 breeds to choose from and none really fit the definition of cute. And I'm sure cat 8 would sell well, the cats seem to sell well at Hivewire. Sometimes it seems they are just not willing to take a risk...
Nah. The act of having hurts less than not. Always a cop out when people suggest otherwise. Reminds me of those saying that because they don't want a Genesis 9, it shouldn't exist for anyone. 3DU's young characters dominate the What's Hot list when they release, so the market exists for it.
And, I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. Obviously, DAZ regulates what goes into the store (and does a good job, might I add). We've had realitstic kids before (and artists like Angel_Wings does a very good job of making kid characters and stays away from 'that' type of material). Just because a few indivduals out there may create content that isn't appropriate doesn't mean you can't sell realistic kids characters/content and still add it to the beaming community.
Now, can we please move away from this notion so the thread can thrive and not see a lock? Thanks.
Actually I own over half of Deepsea's products but sat on the fence on that one but came really close to buying it. I'm not the only one unhappy with the overall representation of children, because if everyone were happy with the options, we would not be requesting realistic looking children, which appears to be requested here by a few or more. I bought plenty of assets from others and despite not being able to utilize them the way I wanted, did not return them out of respect for the work the PA's put into them. An example would be Leon. Not all of us want to use a kid that looks identical to what was made. Maybe we need a messy dirty little boy playing in mud. Leon isn't easy to tweak. It reminded me of years ago, when I ignorantly tried to upgrade a very proprietory Compaq PC. To be honest I didn't buy the one you mentioned because he looked too perfect. The realism is just not there. Maybe it's the eyes? Kids eyes glow, unless they're abused in which case they don't look so perfect, and I am not looking for a child that looks like he has white collar parents making 100k plus a year, attending a montessori school. However a blend of children representing various nationalities and classes is what is needed. Some of us live in the Bronx, some of us live in LA, some of us live in Mexico, Australia, Canada etc. I'm certain when the product does come out it will be a Daz Original and not be just one child but a bundle, and if done right, it will be a big seller.
This is what real kids look like .
Sorry, but when you keep saying that you don't like anything that's ever been done, why would anyone expect anything done for a hypothetical Kids 8 to meet your exact specifications any better? It's fine to say you don't like anything, but how is it reallistic to couple that with a demand for something to be made that's "different" and then qualify it with a "if it's done right, it will be a big seller", when the people who would be making it are the same people who haven't been able to make anything that statisfies you thus far?.
If there's one thing that reading these forums over the years proves, it's that nobody working in this field ever has the exact same tastes and perceptions, and no matter what DAZ or a PA does, there are always going to be some people who like something and others who dislike it. People also go "ew!" over over professional magazine covers and scenes in movies that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, so is it realistic to expect ANYTHING that's made in CG to look perfect? I don't, because it's someone else's conception of real, but by the same token, I don't expect any of the live models I work with in photography to be 100% "perfect" either, and they inconveniently don't come with morphing dials. Ultimately, all you can do is get the closest that you can find within your timeframe and budget, massage everything as much as you can with lighting, posing, camera settings and framing, and textures/makeup, and if that doesn't get you close enough, come back and hit it again in post.
Keiko 6 was TWO generations ago. All of the models you mention...those were years ago. Not last year. Genesis 8 has gone on for nearly 3 full years. Genesis 3 was the standard 2. Do some math. Keiko 6 released in January 2015, that is over 5 years ago. Aiko 3 released back in 2004. We are talking about nearly 16 long years ago. Star 2.0 is not a Daz Original product, so is not relevant. She may have been treated sort of like one, but she belongs to LadyLittleFox and has no connection to the main line. It is possible that the reaction to Star 2.0 may have helped put the wheels for Sakura 8 in motion. Because Daz did not appear to show much interest in any such characters as Daz Original during the Genesis 3 time frame. After all, why didn't Keiko get a 7? They had plenty of opportunity to do so over the course of 2 years. Again, the time frame here. Daz basically skipped anime for the entirety of Genesis 3. And if you look up Aiko 7, you find that I utterly despised her, and I was overjoyed when Star 2.0 came along. But again, Star wasn't DO.
And that certainly does not cover the guys, you can't name a single one after Hiro 5, because there isn't one. Gotta go back to 2012 for Hiro 5, the year the world was supposed to end. It feels like ages ago, because it was.
School and maid outfits are not exclusive to the anime community, talk about a stretch.
The past couple of years have been interesting, because we also have Asian and Japanese PAs now. Perhaps we had some before, but Rarestone and CrocodileLui and others have contributed greatly to Daz in the past couple years. Take note that is was Rarestone who built Sakura 8, and Lui built both Kanade and Yuzuru. I have to wonder, if we didn't have these two PAs, would we have actually got something like Sakura and Kanade in the Daz Original line at all?
I say that for almost every single product released and I stand by that statement. It is EXTREMELY rare that I go out and openly post that will absolutely buy X product. Just look up my post history if you so desire. Just because I ask for a product doesn't mean I will just take anything they throw at me, that's ridiculous, and no customer should ever feel like they are forced to buy something subpar just to make a point. I find that notion incredibly offensive. I don't know too much about the Dog 8, but frankly if the product wasn't what customers expected, why should people buy it? And its odd you bring up Dog 8 when out of the blue there were some Dog 8 add ons just a few weeks ago. If Sakura had not been any good, I would have skipped her. I don't spend money just to spend it.
Quality sells. Bring the quality. If you can't bring the quality, then that is on you. Not me, nor any customer. You never blame the customers for quality. That's not how business works. I said I don't really have a use for kids, but there are also not a lot of truly realistic kids out there, as other people have talked about. Most are more toon. If there was a quality product that was a more realistic child then I would likely buy that product on that condition of it being good. I could always find a use for a quality product as opposed to forcing a crappy one into my scenes. Understand?
Every product launch is gamble. Just ask PAs. You will find many cases where they thought they had a sure winner and it wasn't. Like they released a new version of a product that sold great for previous generations but flopped for some reason on the new one. And actually, that has been happening more and more this generation...maybe that is a sign people want something new? Nothing is ever guaranteed, the world is brutal sometimes that way. All people can do is focus on the quality of their products, and let that quality speak for itself. I personally believe if people focus purely on sales they may have trouble. I also believe that focusing purely on sales hurts the artistic attributes of an ART store. Sometimes, as a store with a focus on art, you need to release products to expand your portfolio in order to attract new customers. If Daz focuses on pretty white women all the time it runs the risk of pushing some people away who would like something else. Yes, we have had a couple of non white characters in a row, but we also had 5 mostly white women in a row just recently, and on separate occasions we have had numerous white women in a row. I think Daz will be survive if they don't release one for a week or two.
Which ties into your last sentence. Daz is not gambling its very livelihood on a single product week to week. Daz buys a product from a PA for a lump sum when they do DOs. So whoever makes that DO is still paid, no risk to them at all! Daz is the only one assuming that risk, and if Daz is in a position to where a single poor selling DO kills their store...yikes.
A product like Kids 8 would expand the Daz portfolio, much more than any white girl will. The Kids 8 would be something that Daz could sell for YEARS into the future. They are still putting the Kids 4 in sales to this day. I would expect that the Kids 8 would have much longer legs than most Genesis 8 items. So even if it didn't sell like wildfire the first week, it could be a product that draws people in for years to come. That is what expanding a portfolio is about. And unlike 3rd party products, Daz gets nearly 100% of that revenue as opposed to the 3rd party 50% or 40%. That is why Daz Originals are important to them, they make them more money. Several people have mentioned AngelWings, well that PA isn't on Daz, so Daz is not making a dime off them!
Dude, you need to take a chill pill.
Me too and I received the same response. One can only try..
So great you requested it too! I think if more people request this Bundle, there could be more possibilities Daz considers it more seriously :D
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/915636
DWings - 3D Art by Leilana in Leilana Gallery on Jan 4, 2020
I cannot believe there are not hundreds of comments!!!
This baby was morphed from https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?ViewProduct=123985 Sixus1 Baby for Genesis 8.
Is that the most beautiful little girl you have ever seen??
I can get close to the beauty of her baby, but not quite. However, I am just saying that we could have some great looking kids with Genesis 8. Also, the children need clothing done by the good clothing artists.
I want high necked tops with ruffles and lace. Cute little pants with ruffles.
I have those sweet little outfits with Kit by LittleFox. I don't know how to make them fit to Genesis 8 Female baby. I am going to try to transform them to dforce. I've read it can be done!
This baby would be a dream come true!! To have a kid this cute with precious little body and texture. To have beautiful, well made baby clothes!!!
I have wanted a baby this precious since I began 3d art in 2005. My love started when I was a little girl, however, trying to draw like artists such as Ruth Morehead. No luck!! My stick figure paper dolls were just awful!!
Well, I can dream!!!
I really liked Ella for Caryn and was pleased with this render I did featuring her.
Ella looks totally okay. She IS a child. While Tobyn and Caryn look like something alien. Wrong proportions for the age they are assumed to have. Especially in the face. Bought them because in dial-spun combination with other grown monsters they make good little monsters.
Deepsea's toddlers are attractive. But they do need to be scaled. I gather they load at the wrong size.
That gallery image is exactly what I would expect from Leliana. She has as distinct a style as Thorne, or Littlefox. It is quite lovely. But it is also heavily stylized. I don't think any real baby would ever look like that.
Frankly, I'm inclined to think that real babies only look cute to observers because they are alive. The fact that there is *a real human being* that size and shape is distorting perception. I suspect that even if you could get one to hold still long enough to be scanned in 3D, the result would look grotesque to anyone who saw it.
This probably affects our perception of small children in 3D as well.
But we could certainly do with more kid-friendly content.
Hi everyone, I would also very much like to see more realistic kids in the store. Not sure whether there would have to be a separate line for them though, just some more realistic skins and morphs and real kids‘ clothes. While the smaller kids out there as of now are really cute and fun to look at, most of them do look rather cartoonish to me too. I do 2d drawings-like renders which are supposed to look like real-life sketches of people and things, and that just doesn‘t work with most of the kids in the store. Children just happen to figure a lot in the stories I illustrate with my renders, so I would definitely love to see more of them. (And no, I‘m not a perv because I need realistic children for my pictures - I found that remark somehwere up in the thread a little insulting really).
One other thing, I think it is rather scary that many of the teen and tween female characters in the store are presented with tons of makeup options and quite often in rather adult poses and lolita style clothes. I would love to see that change. I know that teenage girls love to dress up and all that, but they‘re kids, right. I feel all cringy inside if I see them pouting at the camera like it‘s often done here ...
... sorry, I meant only the teen female characters lolita styles above, I don‘t see renders like that with tweens.
I don't think it suits adults either. Natural beauty includes a subtle element of sex which is in harmony with the rest of the personality, if you exaggerate that element it easily becomes gross or vulgar, IMO.
I certainly don't need any kids. And unless the bundle they came in contained only items that were perfectly suitable for more mature figures, they'd never find their way into my library either. So, there's definitely no "we" who "needs" a Kids 8 product. I'm personally more interested in Lilith 8, as well as Cat 8 (the cat hair update we had a few months ago was more like a slap in the face after the dogs did get a Gen8-model). Babies, kids, teens or tweens? Nah, not interested, and most probably not buying.
So much of this discussion infuriates me. Some people choose to render certain figures, or types of figures, or age groups of figures. I do not care one whit for your holier than thou attitude. And perhaps some of you should keep it to yourselves.
For those who support the idea of a The Kids 8 Bundle, you can make your request here:
https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
I think some people here has already requested. In case you haven't, you can use the link and if you don't support the idea but would like to help us, I'd thank you :)
Organised spamming of the support tickets isn't likely to elicit a favourable response.
@ DAZ3d ... please don't release Kids 8 if they are anything like Kids 4. Kids 4 body shape was more like a dwarf, with broad chunky shoulders and bad joint control morphs. That's fine if you want to render a dwarf character.
There have been many requests for Kids 8 but unless the quality of the model is good in terms of body/head shape and joint control/shaping (remember kids are much more flexible than adults) then Kids 8 would probably be a disaster. Further, if you ever do make a Kids 8 (or a Kids 9 or 10 or whatever the next generation will be called), then please release a good range of child appropriate clothing and hair to go with the Kids.
If Kids 8 (or higher) is not up to a high standard then the community will not support it and PAs will not produce the clothing, hair etc to give a good economic model.
Wouldn't be anything new. People abuse themselves and just about anything they can get their hands on. I forgot what TV documentary it was, but there was a lady addicted to rubbing Comet cleanser, the powdery stuff, on her tongue and consuming it. We can implement bans, pass laws, incarcerate, etc., but we just can't fix stupid. I would find it irionic if they ban 3-D children and not consider the stuff they're promoting in the entertainment industry.
I think there was a movie that got into some controversy with a naked 3D "child" (based on a non-real life simulated person, played by an actress using a stage name and facial prosthetics to conceal their actual identity).
(And by "some" controversy, I mean "A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT".)
Ah, yes, here it is... The Trouble with Being Born.
(EDIT: I haven't seen it, I have no idea what it looks like. Not really that interested, but the controversy was interesting.)
I'd go into "right" versus "wrong", but that's going to stray into politics. So I'll avoid it.
..hmm with the Growing Up Morphs, along with some characters that have different age settings (like Chloe), like do we really need a K8?
I admit to wanting a baby. I have all the babies in the store, here and at Rendo, and I stil don't have one that...is very cute. I try, but babymaking is not my skillset.
I don't need kids. I've got the angelwings kids from Rendo and growing up. I probably render a kid or two a year.
If you have the DO head & body morphs that release right after they did the base G8F & G8M then you have the morphs needed to make realistic kids to about age 5, maybe younger. You need the DAZ Originals Tobyn & Caryn products too though so you have realistic skin textures for kids. Also, haven't tried it but for having a lot of skin tones I think the Maxx HD for the Brute 8 would work to change the skin tone. However, you might need to manually remove some of the image maps applied when you've applied the preset to you DO Head & Body Morphs 'Child' because I'm not sure if the Maxx product applies any just for the skin tone presets. It does apply maps for it's other presets like tan lines & such though so you'll have to evaluate what shader material presets make the character too 'adult' on a case by case basis.
Maxx HD's skin shaders can be applied to other skins. You just need to do that CRTL shortcut that applies the material settings but keeps the original maps. Just make sure the original skin has the same number of maps as Maxx, otherwise weirdness happens.
PedroFurtadoArts' Babyfication for Caryn and Tobyn works too, to give young kids more variety.
The only thing I see good with The Kids 8 is that a lot of kids' outfits may come with the bundle or alongside, like what happened with Caryn and Tobyn. Though IRL where I live, kids don't dress any differently than adults, at least when it comes to "normal clothes". The only thing, of course is that kids' shirts have pictures of cute licensed characters from their favorite shows or movies.
I agree! The clothes (and hair) that came with Caryn & Tobyn are great!
...there's also Zev0's Growing Up Skins for both genders as well as Skin Builder Pro (available for either G3 or G8, I use the former a lot).
I also have a few of 3DUs younger characters and while I know they are a bit stylised, adding a little bit of body andhead shapes does help, and they also have their own skin textures as well.
...there's also the clothing for 3DU's young characters as well..