PAs - Please make props (rooms, furniture, etc) to scale
TheRetiredSailor
Posts: 260
PAs, please make your products to a realistic scale. As a shout out to Maclean, your stuff has always been spot on in size.
First let me say a couple of things.
- Everyone won't agree with me.
- Yes, I am complaining.
I create most (if not all) of the rooms that I use in renders. I build the room in Lightwave using real world dimensions. Walls are 96 inches high (8 feet) which is the standard residential room height. The walls are 4.5 inches thick (3.5 inches for the internal studs and .5 inches on each side for the drywall). Windows and doors are positioned as they would be in the real world. I do this because I feel that the eye will register abnormalities when. looking at the finished render.
The problem is with props that I have purchased. For example, I have a nice bedroom prop set that I purchased here at DAZ. When I dropped it in a room that I have been working on this week I immediately saw that it taking up way more room that it should have. I mean, the room is 16 feet square which is a big bedroom. Using Measure Metrics I see that the mattress is 6 ft 4 in wide and over 8 feet long. I loaded a stock Genesis 8 female and positioned her on the bed. As stated above, my eye immediately spotted the abnormality of her being way too small for the huge bed.
For reference, a quick search on the internet gives "standard" sizes for beds (shown below).
So what's my point? As a consumer of content I want it to be scaled to realistic dimensions. Some will say that I can scale that myself. You are correct, I could. I don't want to. If I spend $20 on a product I want it to be usable straight out of the box. If I have to manipulate it before I can use it then I will take that time and spend it creating my own furniture. Some will say that it doesn't matter because this is 3D. In my opinion, it does matter. DAZ has built a product in DAZ Studio with accurate conversion between modeling programs. The DAZ Original "people" now come with their height and measurements in the product description. To my earlier point, the eye will spot inconsistancies.
Thanks for listening.
| SIZES | DIMENSIONS (IN) | DIMENSIONS (CM) |
|---|---|---|
| Crib | 27” X 52” | 68.5cm X 132cm |
| Twin | 39” X 75” | 96.5cm X 190.5cm |
| Twin XL | 39” X 80” | 96.5cm X 203.5cm |
| Full | 54” X 75” | 134.5cm X 190.5cm |
| Queen | 60” X 80” | 152.5cm X 203.5cm |
| King | 76” X 80” | 193cm X 203.5cm |
| Cal King | 72” X 84” | 183cm X 213.5cm |
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Comments
Yes I run into this issue a lot with vehicles, doors, railings and rooms. It would be great if scaling was designed for G8m and g8f.
Certainly try to keep measurements at the appropriate placement. Example a doorknob at about 36" door height near 80" and kitchen counter at 36" a vanity counter at 30-32" Most rooms have an eight foot ceiling, older homes in the 9-10 foot range.
Would be even better if G8M and G8F were scaled for real world, honestly.
Me too. I will continue to buy characters, hair and clothing because that skill isn't part of my workflow. The rest I'll model myself. I'm spending too much time sort through store listings, elimiating posibilites from vendor's that I don't trust and then finding out that I have found out there's another vendor who has work that's out of scale.
is it that hard to rescale a bed or am i missing something
That's another issue, and I agree. In all fairness, I have had good results scaling G3F and G8F down to size using the Height morph. I'm pretty sure that you have to have the body morph package and something to measure against (like Measure Metrics or an accurate background with measurements on it like the old police lineup walls. Plus, DAZ has released several characters for G8F that are shorter.
No, it isn't. This is my viewpoint from my original post.
"Some will say that I can scale that myself. You are correct, I could. I don't want to. If I spend $20 on a product I want it to be usable straight out of the box. If I have to manipulate it before I can use it then I will take that time and spend it creating my own furniture"
Thank you, you get what I'm saying.
Thank goodness I am not a PA.
That's part of the issue - the Daz females tend to be well above average height, so something designed for them and soemthing designed for real units would be likely to differ in size. I haven't done any modelling for a while, but when I did I worked to actual size where possible rather than using a figure as a guide (or just eyeballing it).
Actually, I thought you were?
snip
Here's a nasty little 3D artist secret: most don't worry about working to exact scale. They just eyeball it and as long as it looks good it is good enough for the job.
While I accept that what you say is reality, I feel that's a problem.
Depends which country you live in for room dimensions.
I do, however, agree that items should be accurate, or very close to it. Actually, I'd return an item that wasn't.
I agree. I model for a 3D environment in the United States. Residential was an example. That said, I doubt that beds are 8 feet long in other countries.
Standard for the USA, maybe. Not for the whole world.
A reference that an American PA, or an international one who works on architecture may want to invest in, is either the Architectural Graphic Standards or the equivalent international one for the EEC or in Asia. I bought the Sixth Edition in 1973 and have used it for many purposes.
And having lived in a Greek flat that was designed and built by the owner, washing dishes in a marble sink, that was at the height of my mid-thighs was a back-breaking task.
But I would give anything for a certain German bathtub from the 1930s barracks, big enough to float in.
Is there a country where a standard mattress size is 6'4" wide by 8'1" long?
Would not even matter that much if some other/any countries standards were followed, but quite often there is no standard followed whatsoever and the scaling being all over the place.
Rooms that are 10 meters x 10 meters (33ft x 33ft) with somewhat regular height, doors and windows - Scaling something like this to anywhere close to realistic is just bigger work than making one your self.
I know, Poser is at fault with it's character bound measuring system, but with the DAZ Studio, we have a real world and accurate dimensions, why not use them.
As a British person who regularly hits his head on the ceiling in what I'd consider to count as older buildings, I would disagree with this statement.
Well, G8M's default height of 180cm is the closest fairly round number to the western male average.
It's really G8F's height that's anomalous, but not needing an inherent conversion factor between G8M and G8F means that things like poses are broadly intercompatible between the two figures, and improves the quality of auto-fit and the like. (Also, every time you need a conversion factor in your code, it complicates things and has the potential risk of being applied in the wrong direction. That's just asking to waste development time and effort by adding more opportunities for bugs in the code).
Yes, it's a bit of a nuisance, but there are good reasons for it and at this stage, changing it would have a lot of knock-on effects. It's not just something that persists out of stubbornness.
it takes 2 seconds tho lol
Quite often it's not just the scale, but the proportions of the item are such that you just cannot fix the problem with just the scale = Way too much work to correct
From my original post, everyone won't agree with me. So be it. This is all about a request to vendors/PAs. Those that support me, thanks. Those that disagree, you are entitled to your opinion.
I do rather agree. Making things the right size requires an attention to detail. The sort of attention to detail that means it looks right, is right and leads to consequences like the toilets having seats, rooms having doors and lights having switches.
Yes, what you said. Thank you. I might add that in addition to detail, there is also quality in the product.
All the freebies I've modeled I do so with a G8 figure in Blender for proper scaling. Seems like it's not super difficult to do.
There is also an issue with getting good renderrs of small rooms to exact scale. For example in the UK toilets are often in a very small room, if you make an exact scale room for one then it is extremely difficult to get any kind of render inside it, often the camera will see the inside of a wall or just a tiny area of the wall,, and yet if you were inside the real room you could look around freely. I think there is effectively a minumum practicable size for rooms in Studio, and so PAs will scale things up so they look 'realistic' without being strictly accurate.
But that is not what is being discussed here. the expectation from the OP is for the PA to look up the EXACT dimensions of the real world counterpart and then model it to these proportions. loading a G8 and using it for scale, which I would gather most already do isn't acceptable it seems.
I also look up real world measurments for things. 36in counters, for example, put the countertop at about hip height on a G8 figure. Not super difficult. IMHO, many PAs probably just model things by eyeball, because either it's easier in their modeler of choice or like many artists they are under the erronous assumption that "they know what this thing looks like and don't need to use references". There is no shame in using references. The human brain is notoriously unreliable when it comes to many things.