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Mhmmm, i would not say that. There are so many ways to go. I mean really, look at the shop at this moment, look back a few months/years. Was'nt much of a difference. At some Point Blender also realized that it would be a good thing to start from scratch, adding their knowledge together to a better thing. Did Blender die?! Hell no, they are on the best path to become industry standart for many productions.
And if you think about it, blender is by far more complex than Daz Studio. What is complex at Daz are the item database and neat models. Like i said, a few years back, a right choosing to get more into animation, making it free for all... the database would have explodet on it's own! That's the truth, because most of the people see that sharing brings them further than "protecting" some images, shapes... whatever. With animation it would be the same. One animates from a closing hand a fist, another one a fist with a index finger that beckons, another one would make the "fuuuuu (you know...)". I mean look what is happening out there. Blender releases nearly with every of their new videos the production process and the assets with it, also the models, textures and it has so much content, you don't even know where to start. And yeah, the databases of many different - real time and toon like - creators are growing INSIDE blender itself. Just add their plugin or search the plugins for the already added ones over the blender add ons, ans start creating scenes, while modeling, searching databases, downloading and have fun!
That's where the industry will go in the end. Same will happen with animation, because it's happening with shaders, models, textures and so on at the same time right now.
Also references, tutorials... everything there is top notch now, pushed from the community, from ordinary guys, that started playing with the program, learning to program, learning to model, texturing, exploring, learning and sharing it again. Why do you think UE jumped the train with Quixel Mixer?! Because people are the source, not one company. Epics library grows also, but not as fast as blender i'd say.
And you are happy about a new first look at a "preview" feature, that renders fast. Man, this already exists... That's just sad, but i think it is because right now you have to search for those "features" blender already has includet. Some vendors or companies dit not realize yet that everything they make will be in the end in a by far bigger database, with millions of items, sharing textures, shaders and everything else to make it by far the most powerful thing there is/will be.
No, i'm on topic! I share my thoughts of Daz and the new feature! I think this is important and i also think that it should be discussed. I mean we talk about a future a program can still have! The question is will they wake up and stop create features that are just half cooked...
My 2c worth:
- Filament is great as a scene preview draw style, it has pretty much already replaced my use of Texture Shaded previews. Agreed it does not match Iray in many respects but it is a clear step forward compared to Texture Shaded.
- I don't know if everyone is seeing this, but with just the default HDRI lighting the scene, it is way too bright when lighting a figure. The fix for this is to load Filament Draw Options into the scene and set the ISO Scale much lower, I find around 0.25 about right. Or reduce the Environment Intensity Scale. You can also play with the SSAO settings which provide control over Ambient Occlusion. Having set that up, you can save it as a Scene Subset in a convenient place to reuse quickly and simply. Using the Filament Draw Options settings means that the Iray settings are unaffected.
- I will mostly be using Filament as a preview draw style, but it is great knowing that I can render quickly with it if needed and that is particularly important for animation - I am sure that many people will start doing animation with DS a lot more, simply because you can see what you are doing a whole lot easier and can render something out without waiting hours or even days. When doing animation, the factor that has most impact when considering "realism" is not the render quality but the quality of the movement itself, and it will be a lot easier to fine tune that when you can get a real-time preview.
Does someone know if Fire for Filament https://www.daz3d.com/fire-for-filament ;can be animate?
Can someone point me to a link to move my Menu's/Toolbar's config that I have setup in 4.12 into 4.14? I am looking but can't find anything, and recreating my whole layout would be "not fun"...
I think you can use the Windows menu - Workspace/Save Layout As... You should then be able to load that into 4.14.
I didn't do anything and it just worked. I have custom menus for custom actions, ManFridays RenderQueue, bookmarks. I was very pleased they were all still there because I had just done a big rearrangement in the last week or so. YMMV.
Some of us have been here long enough to remember all the jokes that the biggest requirement for DAZ was to implement a Make Art button, Now it appears what DAZ can't grasp is the need for a Make PhotoReal button. The characters are different, but the storyline never varies.
Thanks I will try the Layout save as...thanks @PhilW
@toph, I installed 4.14 to my D drive, and left 4.12 on my C drive (thats why they are not there). I've learned over the years never to overwrite a good working copy of DS ;-)
The Beta is perfect in this case since the Beta and General Release are the same.
Hey guys, i thought i'd just throw my 2c in on the conversation here. As i've mentioned elsewhere on the forums, i threw my support behind this endeavor because i coach and train a lot of budding artists and PA's from developing countries where the purchase of high-end Nvidia cards is almost impossible. I wanted broke students to be able to pick this up as a hobby, even if their only available pc is a 10-year-old laptop that's being held together by duct tape. Lowering the bar of entry is good for daz. As it stands right now, you can pick up daz, grab a load of freebies and get started with rendering in filament without spending a dime. If you're lucky enough to be dual-wielding titans and overclocked i9's, then there's still plenty of goodies lined up for you. It's not replacing iray it's just an addition.
I'm also seeing a lot of comparisons to eevee and UE4, which i don't think is a fair comparison. Eevee and UE4's renderers along with Filament *can* look great if you put forth the effort, but none of them are going to do it for you. Whenever you see awesome quality work in eevee or UE4, or any other engine, i guarantee you that there was a seasoned visual effects artist that created it. We have Iray for people with hardware capable of using effectively, we have filament for those who don't have that luxury. Both of them will look terrible if you don't put forth adequate effort. Both will look great if you do.
Early in the port process when FIlament was still crashing regularly and had no documentation, i made these -
They're certainly not avengers level CG obviously, but if i told people they were made in Iray, i'm pretty sure they'd believe me.
I'm not saying this to cause a flamewar, - i too am looking forward to more high-tier goodies being introduced into daz. The wishlists being presented in this thread are valid, and i'd like to see improvements in a lot of areas too. I'd just like to get my point across that many people will benefit from this, and i hope it will breed a lot of new daz artists who would not have been able to use the software previously. It's the Artist, not the brush, make something awesome.
Adorable! +1
looks really good - my questions are:
there is mentioned and shown that filament render is very fast - in seconds.
What is regarding the new filament products athmosphere, fire , light pro? Some pics looks really nice.
How much time lasts rendering with these products?
& How much time lasts setting up the items / presets within these products?
I mean if you have a scene built without this product elements the time it takes to setup product items/presets that it looks like in product pics.
I mean especially if using this products to come to such pics lasts seconds, minutes or hours.
@KindredArts, just wondering why they didn't go for Vulkan, supported by AMD and Nvidia
https://developer.nvidia.com/Vulkan
https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/vulkan
Vulkan is supported by the big guys in GPU, but runs on cellphones to high-end gpus, a sort of best of all worlds really
A bit late to the party, but I've been playing with it for a while and sure, it's much quicker than Iray, and yes, for the viewport window it's a step up from textured view, but only a very minor one (and even then, not always) -- at best the results it produces are "OK for a pre-vis" and at worst they're "unusable garbage". I'm aware that this prioritises speed over quality, but when compared against the Blender Eevee/Cycles pairing there's no contest: I probably wouldn't use Eevee for a final render but as an approximation the results are close enough that you can get a good sense of the final look, whereas here the two renderers produce such vastly different results I fail to see the point -- subjectively the results look like a low budget PC game from 2010.
Problems I've run in to so far:
In short I'm going to stick to Iray; preview is fast enough for most purposes, and I'd rather have a decent looking render after a few hours than a terrible one now -- a bird in the hand it not always worth two in the bush!
LOL! Thanks I needed that
OK, that worked well enough, thanks all!
Filament is a great thing for users with small pc setups and for animators the renderings are very very fast.
Do a close rendering with Filament, I don't really see the point, everything is distorted, it is much too bright compared to "texture shaded".
No interest in modifying the parameters for a close rendering, personally, I switch to iray for the close rendering, in order to be as close as possible to the final result, to refine the editing, the "shaded texture" is more than enough.
Putting a rendering engine in real time is an excellent thing, speed of rendering, we work "live" in the scene ...
There is still a lot of work to be done to make it 100% operational, a lot of texture problems (broken skins around the face, visible seams, broken reflections, materials that react badly etc.)
If DAZ3d succeeds in correctly implementing future updates and resolving the concerns mentioned above, this engine could revolutionize the use of DAZ, attracting quite a few 3D editors and animators.
Hoping that a marketing model does not set up in parallel with paid addons to "convert" all kinds of things (scripts, shaders etc).
Here is my feeling hot, a very good addition with still a lot of work, we are only at the beginning of the Filament adventure on DAZ, let's give it time to set itself up.
Edit: written and translated with Google Translation from French to English, the turn of the sentences may differ from the original.
@chrom - All of the renders are realtime, it obviously took some time to create the scenes, but no time to render them. Some of them use my products, which are drag and drop, but you don't require any products to make renders look like the ones above.
@Paintbox - I'm not sure, i didn't get involved with filament until the port was effectively done, and it was testing time.
I really like your take on things - that everyone should be encouraged to create art, no matter the budget. In our brave new digital world, we often forget those that are left behind simply because they're lacking the basic means to access what we use every day. So thanks for your really valuable input, and also for the clarification that it is indeed always the artist who creates the art, not the renderer.
Loved your example pics by the way!
Thank you for this. Very well said.
thank you for the answer
I saw your with/without pics in the products and interested especially in the products because of the results.
The time for scene setup itself for me is indifferent because it’s for with/without status.
But how much efford is it to bring it with your products into with-status?
For example one or few drag & drops in few minutes or several dozens drag & drops with individual adjustments for perhaps every light, … in the scene and that takes hours.
I am not sure i correctly understand what the Filament render means .Ok i have tested it in preview but i prefer iray texture rendering But what is the link between Filament render on preview diaplay and final rendering when i click on render in menu ? And i just see this product '' SF Beautiful Skin Filament '' in the store: i see the images associated in the product page and i don't really see what this product will do on final render ? Preview and render association with filament render engine ???
Just wanted to provide a data point as I am mostly an animator using DAZ.
Filament is a huge boon for us and having a fast engine with shadows is big. I believe if you start off your project with a good sense of the look you want, you will know what engine to use.
Hopefully once DAZ adds softer shadows and resolves the issue where there are no shadows from point lights, it'll be even better. It would be AWESOME if there was an Iray to Filament shader converter so we can obtain WYSIWYG parity but starting off in the render of choice in the beginning should be good enough.
I just want to say that realtime is here to stay and is new in every 3D software and I appreciate it ... and I faithfully believe that over time it will improve every day ..... only today, I do not have the necessary equipment for a realtime ... I like it! ... I just want it to be separate from the viewport (render setting -editor- viewport) to use it when you need it ...other softwares make the viewport a realtime ... just to model objects ... I hope Daz doesn't do it ... I love this software and I had the illusion of being a great Daz Studio artist ... I was working on my art and I'll share it soon ... I hate blender .... but today daz studio and blender are the only thing I have left. (I am a linux user)
I'm very happy to have it. I won't be doing my final renders in Filament, but it does help with specific things that were clunky before. For example, it really helps with getting HDRI domes rotated the way you want.
And if I had a low end machine, I would be ecstatic. It would at least let me play where before I could not. I do think it is better for situations that don't involve closeups.
Here is a comparison render I did between the two. I did add some lights trying to get back some of the effect lost with the lack of emissives. I could have done even better by adding more lights than I did (I added 6 or so).
I much prefer the Iray version, but then again, it took 100s of times longer to render.
@chrom if you're talking about the atmosphere, or the fire, you're probably only going to need a single prop. The atmosphere is one large grid that uses transparency maps for falloff. You just load an appropriate size into the scene and it just works. The fire is similar, just load a fire prop that you like and it's pre-lit.
So... I'm the only one having this issue?
I'm asking because I need to find if it's GPU related or if I do something wrong.
no, moving the camera seems to affect the distant light, static cameras are OK and indoor shots
The way you descripe the atmosphere prop, is there any reason why it wouldn't also work in Iray. I know your interior lighting works in both since it is advertised that way. But it as described, I would think the atmosphere one would work too.
Quick Question - I just started trying out Filament yesterday, and was working fine. When I tried today, when I load a subject I get an overlay on the screen of a texture map. The texture map doesnt show up when I click render, I simply get an empty render.
I'm not sure what is happening here. I think I am doing all the same things I did yesterday. I simply add a character, create the filmament nodes (texture, envirenoment, etc), select viewport, and select filament from the droppdown. And I get the texture map overlay on the viewport.
Any thoughts?
Thanks, Wendy! So it's another little thing that needs to be fixed.
Anyway, even in this "early stage", Filament is great. Hope to see it fully functional soon, with this DAZ Studio will definitely give all other 3D animations softwares some hard time.